One of the overlooked problems with single payer (which I believe is our only hope) is the amount of money we spend for health care in the U.S.
Right now we spend about $8000 per person in the U.S. annually ($2.4 trillion in spending for 300 million population).
That's $32K per year for a family of four, which is $2667 per month. It’s $667 per month for an individual. I don't know many folks who could afford that under a single payer plan that distributes the costs evenly among a universal pool of enrollees.
But wait.
continued...
France spends about $3600 per capita according to the latest OCED figures for 2007. Let's say that has gone up to $4000 by now. That's about half of what we spend and they have better outcomes. So let's say we could figure out how to deliver health care as efficiently and cost-effectively as the French, thus reducing our $8000 per capita to $4000. Other countries do it for even less.
Now we are talking about a single payer system which has to cover 300,000,000 people at a cost of $4000 per person, which works out to about $1.2 trillion.
Now consider that the federal government already covers about $665 billion through Medicare and the federal portion of Medicaid (paid for by existing payroll taxes, Medicare premiums, and general tax revenues). So we are already paying $2217 per individual towards the $4000. (So much for "keep the government out of my health care!")
That leaves $1783 per individual to cover a single payer system for every U.S. citizen. That's $149 per month per individual, or $594 per month for a family of four.
And even if we continued with the current employer-based system, employers would pay a portion of $594 per month for family coverage instead of paying a portion of $1928 per month.
And we would eliminate $140 billion in state Medicaid spending, which represents anywhere from 4% to 25% of state budgets (about 17% nationwide). We might have to raise the 2.9% Medicare payroll tax a little and have sliding-scale premiums and vouchers to cover the needy and the uninsured. Maybe we have higher deductibles and co-pays for high-net-worth individuals. But it would be a lot cheaper to insure everyone at $4000 per than at $8000 per.
Now the only problem is reducing the per capita cost to $4000. A single payer national universal health insurance system would eliminate insurance company profits, executive bonuses, redundant billing and payment systems, etc., saving anywhere from 15% to 30%. Let's be conservative and say 20%. This reduces our $8000 per capita to $6400 right out of the gate.
Now we need to find $2400 more (37.5%) in savings. Maybe we pay $750 for an MRI instead of $1200. And maybe we pay $6 instead of $10 for a hospital aspirin. Etc. My doctor gives a 40% discount for paying cash and he seems to be doing OK. We can reduce health care spending by 37.5% if we want to get serious about the problem.
Congress ought to be able to figure it out. In fact, they have already figured out the single payer part. It's called HR676. All this other stuff we're arguing about is a waste of time, and will end badly for everyone except insurance and pharmaceutical companies.
|
Topics:
|
|
Discussing:
- Terrible things are happening outside. (5 replies)
- GOP dereliction of duty, SNAP must be funded (1 reply)
- Medicare Advantage: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (1 reply)
- Electricity prices are rising (2 replies)
- Does Silly Congress care about chaos in cattle market? (4 replies)
- East TN Health Depts. free flu shots today, Oct. 21, 2025 (1 reply)
- Building housing Knox County Democratic Party headquarters up for sale (3 replies)
- Watch how scam victims lose millions to a con with a modern twist (1 reply)
- Knoxville SOUP proposals Announced for Sept. 23, 2025 (1 reply)
- No Kings Rally - Saturday, Oct. 18, 2025 (1 reply)
- Study finds Knoxville has the second worst drivers in the US (3 replies)
- Republicans shutdown government to avoid healthcare support (2 replies)
TN Progressive
- WATCH THIS SPACE. (Left Wing Cracker)
- Report on Blount County, TN, No Kings event (BlountViews)
- America As It Is Right Now (RoaneViews)
- A friend sent this: From Captain McElwee's Tall Tales of Roane County (RoaneViews)
- The Meidas Touch (RoaneViews)
- Massive Security Breach Analysis (RoaneViews)
- (Whitescreek Journal)
- Lee's Fried Chicken in Alcoa closed (BlountViews)
- Alcoa, Hall Rd. Corridor Study meeting, July 30, 2024 (BlountViews)
- My choices in the August election (Left Wing Cracker)
- July 4, 2024 - aka The Twilight Zone (Joe Powell)
- Chef steals food to serve at restaurant? (BlountViews)
TN Politics
- Shutdown double whammy: SNAP food benefits ending and federal workers go unpaid (TN Lookout)
- In increasingly Hispanic Memphis schools, immigration enforcement surge brings fear, absences (TN Lookout)
- US Senate in bipartisan vote rejects Trump tariffs on Brazil as coffee prices spike (TN Lookout)
- John Cole’s Tennessee: Tricks or treats? (TN Lookout)
- Department of Children’s Services faces sharp questions about kids continuing to sleep in offices (TN Lookout)
- Trump backs embattled Ogles in Tennessee race against Hatcher (TN Lookout)
Knox TN Today
- Smoky Mountain Tales: A conversation with Charles Maynard (Knox TN Today)
- The Book Whisperer has perfect Halloween read (Knox TN Today)
- Garner on Vol defense: Everybody must do better (Knox TN Today)
- Sylvia McLaurin + Abby Rase + TN Promise + In Memoriam ++ (Knox TN Today)
- Downtown Knoxville has Halloween covered (Knox TN Today)
- Gibbs cements post season play, eliminates Heritage (Knox TN Today)
- Chunk takes the crown: Fat Bear Week 2025 ends with a big winner (Knox TN Today)
- HEADLINES: World news to local Deputy Kirchner facing amputation (Knox TN Today)
- Young Reader’s Shelf: Harry Potter series (Knox TN Today)
- GCA offers PK-12 & Hybrid Program Open Houses (Knox TN Today)
- BarberMcMurray receives TBR Chancellor’s Award (Knox TN Today)
- It cost a war pension (Knox TN Today)
Local TV News
- New Ripley's attraction opens in Pigeon Forge (WATE)
- Knoxville nonprofits continue serving people with disabilities despite government shutdown impacts (WATE)
- 'Leaders of tomorrow' Anderson County honors JROTC cadets (WATE)
- 'We're pulling together' Cocke County organizations stepping up to help ahead of SNAP funding loss (WATE)
- Retired UT mascot Smokey X diagnosed with cancer (WATE)
- Taking GIs to war and back: Flight attendant recounts unique Vietnam War perspective (WATE)
News Sentinel
State News
- Four prep football games to watch in the Chattanooga area - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Residents speak against Enterprise South, McDonald Farm plans as Wamp watches - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Georgia panel raises state park fees with additional price hikes in the works - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Restaurant Scene: Best Chattanooga places to suit your tailgating needs - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
Wire Reports
- Federal Reserve cuts key rate yet Powell says future reductions are not locked in - AP News (Business)
- Jurors convict Illinois deputy of killing Sonya Massey but can't agree on first-degree murder charge - AP News (US News)
- ICE shake-up will increase arrest numbers. That doesn’t mean there will be more deportations. - Politico (US News)
- A massive Microsoft Azure outage is taking down Xbox and 365 - The Verge (Business)
- Alphabet Revenue Up 16% With Strong Cloud Sales - The New York Times (Business)
- Meta Stock Slides On Mixed Q3 Results. Tax Charge Hits Earnings Amid 26% Sales Growth. - Investor's Business Daily (Business)
- Starbucks reports same-store sales growth for the first time in nearly two years - CNBC (Business)
- Democrats ramp up probes into Trump’s $300 million White House ballroom - The Washington Post (US News)
- Thieves disguised as construction workers pull off $3.2 million New York City jewelry and safe heist - NBC News (US News)
- Report: Government shutdown will cost the economy up to $14 billion - The Washington Post (US News)
- Nvidia becomes world's first $5tn company - BBC (Business)
- After a wave of lawsuits, Character.AI will no longer let teens chat with its chatbots - CNN (Business)
- South Korea gives Trump a crown weeks after No Kings protests - Axios (US News)
- Another blow for Trump as judge disqualifies ‘unlawfully serving’ top prosecutor in Los Angeles - The Independent (US News)
- Why a US-China trade deal matters to the global economy - Al Jazeera (US News)
Local Media
Lost Medicaid Funding
Search and Archives
TN Progressive
Nearby:
- Blount Dems
- Herston TN Family Law
- Inside of Knoxville
- Instapundit
- Jack Lail
- Jim Stovall
- Knox Dems
- MoxCarm Blue Streak
- Outdoor Knoxville
- Pittman Properties
- Reality Me
- Stop Alcoa Parkway
Beyond:
- Nashville Scene
- Nashville Post
- Smart City Memphis
- TN Dems
- TN Journal
- TN Lookout
- Bob Stepno
- Facing South

Most People Buy on Emotion
The real question is, why was this not one of the starting points?
We know via the "Freedom Fries" fiasco, the same morons who are Palin and Beck fans, hate the French. If Obama's starting point was; "We can't keep letting the French whip our tails", or something on that basic "By Gawd" level - we would now be at the point of having most everyone on board.
Until Obama (and Dems) understand not everyone will be reached on an intellectual level, he will keep wasting his Sundays. Either "sell" the plan, which is a matter of emotion, or ram the plan through. I'm afraid it's getting a little late for either.
That's $149 per month per
That's $149 per month per individual
Wouldn't that be nice? I'd be willing to pay a little more, right now anyway.
We could reduce the cost by getting rid of the inscos
The overhead for the inscos is 30 percent vs. 3 percent for Medicare. So right there's a savings of 27 percent, even before you start to jawbone down the providers to provide care for what Medicare reimburses.
The only losers would be the insco CEOs with the $20 millions salaries, and the investors siphoning off billions for profits.
We already spend more tax money than France
You can find the OECD summary, including bar graphs, with a brief detour via "Best health care in the world".
Liberty and justice for all.
My home
explain please
The "in both directions" comment seems inaccurate. Could you please elaborate where misinformation or disinformation has occurred with those who support single payer health care? I am not aware of any instances. Links would be helpful too.
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"
What the US needs is a
What the US needs is a single-payer not-for-profit health system that pays doctors and nurses sufficiently that they will undertake the arduous training and accept the stress and risks of dealing with illness and diseases.
France
I hate to shine the light of truth on all this, but France health care is cheap (it's actually a hybrid system of single payer and private) is the government simply charges the harder working, higher income people more. They operate on a sliding scale regarding individual monthly costs. So if you work hard, you pay more. The middle class takes the brunt of this. France is hardly a decent poster child if you look at all their other problems caused by socialism.
CC
charges the harder working,
higher income != harder working
____________________________
Dirty deeds done dirt cheap! Special holidays, Sundays and rates!
Yes, hard working, higher
Yes, hard working, higher income. What is it? 4 times the poverty level which is only in the 40K range (just guessing)? Hardly a corporate titan who is on the golf course getting bonuses slid under his door. That is my point, the income number is going down, down, down for those that will be paying for the whole ball of wax, and these are going to be middle income people.
Oh, and then add in your supplemental insurance. One poster was talking about Australia, my wife is from Australia and nobody has a good thing to say about their program down under. Her brother was just up, and he was grousing about having to pay a $300.00 supplement per month. So the figures stated for the true cost of healthcare is only what the government (you) pay is not the total cost.
I also like everyone wanting to compare us with smaller countries when modeling, Australia has around 20 million people, Canada 33 million, France 62 million, and UK 61 million? We are using these countries as a model for healthcare for the US with 300 million people? Craziness.
My wife works for one of the largest three insurance companies in Oregon, and it's a non-profit. If you want changes in the current health care costs, blame the state insurance board, they clear the rates.
I'll just be happy if I can read the bill before it's voted on since our representatives won't.
BTW, I didn't say all the aspects of Socialism are bad.
Payment models
Since the U.S. is much larger than the other western democracies, economies of scale should give us cost advantages over them. Instead, we pay waaay more than anyone else.
Liberty and justice for all.
My home
Also, France does not have
Also, France does not have "socialized" medicine, but rather a public/private hybrid as the commenter notes (before going on to lament all the problems caused by socialism).
Countries with true "socialized health care" such as the UK have much lower costs.
Australia has what is pretty much a "socialist" system similar to UK, but I believe there are some private hospitals and providers in their plan. I believe their cost to cover everybody is a 1.5% payroll tax (somebody fact check me if I'm wrong). Their per capita cost in 2006 was USD $3136 v. $6933 in the US according to the OECD.
We pay a 2.9% payroll tax in hopes of someday getting Medicare (if the Republicans don't abolish it).