the camera at W-T mall, by a one-second amber light. No exaggeration. But it was not cost effective to contest the ticket, and who is to say I would have been successful? Most traffic courts are of the kangaroo variety.

What bothers me most about this set up is all the money that goes to Phoenix or wherever, the location of the company that sets up and maintains the system. They get the vast majority of the "take" per a recent N-S article.

The police tout the reduction in accidents at these locations. If that is so, why depend on word of mouth? Better to just post billboards at these intersections.

No way a yellow light out by west town lasts one second. Unless it's broken. In which case, call 311 and report it.

The typical yellow signal lasts 3-6 seconds. (Go here and flip to page 31 of the PDF.) The length is based on traffic speeds, sight distances, and other factors.

The police tout the reduction in accidents at these locations. If that is so, why depend on word of mouth? Better to just post billboards at these intersections.

Hey, that's a good idea, a billboard. Except all of the intersections in Knoxville with red light cameras already have signs. Obviously they're not enough to get people to stop running red lights. People don't notice signs. There are signs all over town telling drivers to yield to pedestrians when they turn, and nearly every day I just about get clocked by a turning driver when I'm crossing with the light.

I wonder if some crafty entrepreneur will come up with a remote control device that briefly drops a shade over your license plate when about to run a light. You could press a button and drop the shade over the tag until through the intersection. Then the "shade" is lifted. It could be tucked into one of those license plate holders.

Of course, I have no idea how one goes about creating such a device. And I'd imagine that blocking one's license plate is plenty illegal...

About a year ago I got a delightful $50 ticket for making a legal right turn on red. I stopped, made sure the intersection was clear and no cars coming from any direction, and made the legal right turn.

It cost me $50, some of which went to benefit the company that runs the system, which probably kicks some of the dough back into the campaigns of Tennessee politicans.

And I'd like to see the officer who "reviewed" that one.

The Georgia Legislature passed a law (which went into effect this past Jan 1 ) which required every red light camera in the state to add one second to the amber delay. Revenue has dropped to near zero from these cameras and traffic accidents have also declined. Virtually every Ga. municipality is now dropping red light cameras due to the lack of revenue now being generated and apparently there is a cost to the city involved if revenue falls below certain levels. The AJC had an article on this.

First of all don't pay those tickets. It is civil not criminal. They can not prove you were driving. They can not do anything to your D.L. All it is is a money making racket. My wife got one of those tickets in Dallas. I told her to throw it in the garbage.
I am not saying anyone should run a red light. Just don't pay those unconstitutional tickets.

problem with the 'snapshot' of the crime is that it lacks context. One of these days they'll be taking video instead of 'snapshots' that may help weed out blatant red light runners from the rest of us who got caught making a right turn on red (after stop) and what not...

generally, I'm amazed at how well we get along with out the police and big-government to hold our hands. Most people don't run red lights. We just need to catch those that do.

Problem is, the snapshot photos of red light runners is an imperfect tool and perverted by money hungry governments strapped for cash... it's mainly a revenue collection stream, pure and simple disguised as a safety feature.
Has anyone else noticed the increase in speed traps since the economy has dipped?

I wonder if the red light camera caught the cop I saw making a right turn on 'red' so that he could pull an immediate u-turn followed by a right turn to put him back on his original course (as if he ran the red light). No emergency lights mind you, just in a hurry to punch out it seems. Bet I'd have received a ticket.

In actuality, people operate their motor vehicles at an incredibly safe level. Period. Take the number of miles driven in the US annually and divide the number of accidents (not just injury accidents or fatal accidents) and you will see the rate. It's not going to be much. Divide the driving fatalities into the population and it doesn't exist as a statistic.

Even anecdotally: have YOU seen an accident lately? See one today? I can't think of the last accident, even a fender bender that I have seen in Tyler. Fatalities iI have read about, but they are rare. When is the last time YOU had one? I haven't bent any metal on any of the cars I have owned and driven (hundreds of thousands of miles) in decades. I've never been involved in an injury accident of any type, even in my teens and 20s.

Traffic safety is at an all-time high. IF people are driving like bats out of hell and IF folks are blowing red lights as a routine then it must be safe.

I can't believe folks are falling for this. Most red lights could be eliminated completely without disrupting safety or traffic flow.

In Georgia State Rep. Barry Loudermilk pushed through legislation that required all cities to use the federally suggested yellow light time plus one second. Tickets for running red lights have plummeted and most cities have pulled their red light cameras bevause it is now costing more to operate them than they make. Atlanta has not changed their timing yet and the state is preparing to cut off state monies to the city until they comply.

Here in Mississippi the legislature just passed a law making the use of red light cameras illegal anywhere in the state! Finally our politicans passed a bill to help the common man out

In regard to concerns about the money and where it goes for administration of red light cameras, the situation is not different from that with any contract with any vendor who makes the low bid for a product or service.

For example,lots of cash "left town" to Massachusetts for the design contract for the South Waterfront. The group chosen (Hargreaves) was the choice among all those submitting proposals, and many very very impressive, including some local firms. There was suspicion (certainty in some minds, ahh. the joys of non-accountability) was that it was "wired" for a "Good Old Boy" local firm. So, as if often the case, (understandably, given people's general attitudes toward government )either way provides the impetus for a response... giving to a member of the elusive, but purported local PTB crowd, or sending dollars "away from the community."

The Red Light Cameras went for bid initially and separately for renewal. As you may recall, Redflex missed the deadline for renewal by a few hours, no more than a day, I remember, and lost to another firm who had the low, qualifying bid. I am pretty there was not any local bidder and pretty sure, as is the case for many services, that no local firm does this sort of work. In the case of the cameras, there is significant up front investment in equipment and ongoing cost with fulfilling the part of the contract. If a competitor could do it for less, and still make the model work, they certainly would have submitted a lower bid than the lowest, winning one.

Finally, I know it is fun and tempting to infer motive from a situation based on outcome: "X is doing Y because ......." Unless someone is privy to discussions and rationale of individuals making decisions it is not fair or appropriate to move from speculation (which we know is always part of public discourse) to statements of certainty on such things. Those who recommended red light cameras, at least in this jurisdiction, always couched all rationale, internally and externally, in terms of traffic safety and saving lives. The city, and KPD, will be very happy when nobody enters an intersection after the light has turned red.

I have HUGE problem with the city or police force making revenue through tickets. Police should have 0 incentive to pull people over other than "It is their JOB" to enforce traffic violations. There should never be a financial incentive.

All money/revenue earned by the police should go to things like schools. They should not see a penny of it. If they want more money then they can ask for a larger budjet from the elected state officials. The police are suppose to work for us... not make money off of us.

Gah hate not being able to fix spelling errors :) Budget ... heh

In the Netherlands and I believe some other European countries they construct these boxes that house the red-light cameras at every intersection. However, only about 1/4 of the boxes have cameras in them and they rotate which box has a camera every so often. This saves the city money on upkeep for the system and keeps drivers guessing making more intersections safer than with just sporadic cameras posted about.

I am amazed at how much traffic this has generated from non-regular (and apparently non-east Tennessee) blabbers. I guess red light cameras are a serious national issue.

How depressing.

I haven't received a ticket from a red light camera but in my opinion, it is just a tool that is used by law enforcement...we don't protest that the profit from Tazers (sp?) goes to a non-Knoxville firm nor the profit from a Smith & Wesson, nor the profit from uniforms, etc., etc.

As to the signage...I'm not a fan of visual pollution; I would rather prefer that everyone assume that if you run a red light, you will probably get a ticket.

Just my $00.02,
Bill Pittman

this issue, world peace cannot be far behind.

Can one surmise that if one does not run a red light or break the law they will not receive a ticket?
How unique is that?
Break the law, get a ticket and quit whining.

Check out the latest radar detectors for many types of legal injustice avoidance. These GPS based devices can be loaded with an up to date database of red light & speed cameras, school zones, speed zones, and radar traps. Also available are all-band radar detection and cloaking, and radar detector detectors. I think there is even a model with a built-in lawyer! (you wish)
If you're interested, I suggest Crutchfield.com.

Vice Mayor Bob Becker leaning against one of the cameras he voted for. I asked him how much money was leaving the local economy per year because of this system. He said, "How should I know?" While I'm not arguing that anyone should break the law, $50 might be a near-insignificant sum for a Haslam or a Roddy or even a Lyons, but it's onerous for someone living on $200 or $250/week (and there are many such persons in Knoxville).

from GaMongrel:
>> Has anyone else noticed the increase in speed traps since the economy has dipped?<<

OH YEAH! And apparently not just out in your area. I live in Oregon and travel frequently through Oregon, Washington State, and California. Since January 1, 2009, ALL of those states have stepped up their speed traps. It was like somebody just flipped a switch after the first of the year and said, "OK, troopers, we're broke. Go make us some money!"

And beyond just speed traps, they're being DEVIOUS as heck! California is the WORST.
*Unmarked "normal looking" cars and pickups (with hidden lights) that roll with the regular traffic; often one unmarked car will trail a mile or so behind the first one, to catch the people who speed up after the first car is pulled over.
*Hiding in shadows under bridges when the sun is in drivers' eyes.
*Hiding around corners on mountain DOWNGRADES, where people usually pick up a little speed anyway
*And worst of all, sometimes working in "swarms"-- A trooper will get out of his car and stand off to the side or on an overpass with a laser radar gun, while a helicopter or plane watches from above. A posse of sometimes seven or eight troopers wait with their cars hiding out of view, and then on signal from the laser guy and/or the chopper, they zoom out onto the freeway and pounce, stopping multiple cars in the same vicinity.

Is it my imagination, or did the United States NOT used to be a place where the gestapo were instructed to shake down the citizens for money?

If our government is US, "the people", why do we tolerate these policies that allow red light cameras, speed traps, etc. Who asked for these laws allowing the police to run our lives in the first place?? Don't WE make the laws? If a law has been made that people don't like, then it should be possible to UN-make the law. I applaud those communities and states that have started standing up and saying "NO, we do NOT want that red-light law anymore; take it off the books."

There IS a way to make intersections safer, but as with many policies in this country, the authorities won't consider those other ways, because THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY. All those other ways do is make the intersections safer. But our local governments aren't interested in that.... they want the money.

Several places in Europe, there are sensors that judge the flow of traffic coming up to an intersection, and warning lights will begin FLASHING when it becomes clear that your car cannot make it through the intersection before the light turns red.

Simple, effective technology that is available for use anywhere in our country, yet I have only seen it used twice in all the years I traveled in all 48 lower mainland states.

Many countries use a countdown system that flashes amber to let you know the red light is coming. And in Austria, not only do they have the countdown to red, but they have a 5-flash amber count UP from red to let you know when the green is coming. Drivers know when it's time to step on the gas and GO. They hate wasting time.

Sounds like that would work GREAT in this country. They COULD make it safer, but they won't, because they can't make money off of it. They don't want safer intersections... They would rather create situations that cause people to get violations. $$$

Anyone who trusts the contractors to 'time' the light correctly is in for a shock. They are not the same settings as what the folks who service the regular stop lights. Some cops in Maryland told me that when they write you a ticket there's a presumption of innocence until you go to court and they have some latitude in writing a ticket. Not so with this kangaroo court. After I was pushed thru one these intersections by a tailgater I got the $50 ticke , went to court, and the judge didn't want to hear about. I was just told to pay up. I did and a few months later they said I didn't - the contractor and held up my tag renewal. Good thing I got a receipt from the court! When I threatened to take this issue to the media, they got it fixed real fast, after ignoring me for several weeks. Wise up folks! This is the worst thing anyone has ever pulled on the public in years. The whole process is a joke. Some places have taken them down already and refunded the fines. Sooner or later it will come down to this. And yes, I no longer shop in that area where I used to go 10-15 times a month. Today, merchants in that area get zero, zip, nada, nothing from me.
Parking meters killed many downtown shopping areas; these cameras will kill off many other places where folks shop. The public can save gas and money by staying away from these areas. Then, somebody will figure out why.