There are communities around the country trying to manage community development to "ensure the protection and preservation of the quality of life experienced by residents and visitors." One of those communities is Lake Mary, FL, where we lived for over ten years. Another is the City of Port Orange, FL, which we visited on a recent trip.
I have been meaning to make this post since our return. It is even more relevant after reading Lisa Starbuck's post on signs in Knoxville.
Dunlawton Avenue is a major thoroughfare from I-95 to Daytona Beach. It is a six lane road with lots of businesses on either side. Due to Port Orange's Land Development Codes, the community and commercial district looks like this.
Some of Port Orange's Land Development Codes include:
- Minimum landscape buffer requirements (20 to 50 feet, depending on type of developement and road),
- Minimum landscape buffer length (entire length of the property boundary abutting the right-of-way with exceptions for access ways, drainage, etc.
- Minimum landscape buffer planting requirements (10-50 ft buffer, 2-8 shade trees, 2-8 understory trees, 30-60 shrubs per 100 lineal feet)
- Parking landscaping (10% of the parking/vehicular use area, with exceptions)
- Minimum parking landscaping requirements (one shade tree or two understory trees for every 300 square feet) with shrubs planted along dividers separating parking from access drives.
- Signs (One sign, 48 sq ft area, max height = 8 ft, min setback from ROW = 5 ft, sign cabinet must be mounted on a decorative base, etc.)
Not to say that there are not poorly planned areas in both of these communities. They key is both communities are working hard to plan for better, livable communities.
|
|
Discussing:
- Tennessee passes bill to restrict college students' protests (1 reply)
- Inflation up, gas up, food up, consumer sentiment lowest ever (1 reply)
- Some AI uses are "outside the bounds of safe/reliable technology" (2 replies)
- A Letter to the U.S. Congress (1 reply)
- President: we can't take care of daycare, Medicare, Medicaid (1 reply)
- U.S. House Democratic Leadership says to Stop the Madness (1 reply)
- Am I missing something? (1 reply)
- Lady Vols Basketball down to one player? (1 reply)
- Kerbela Shriners Site Development Proposal Meetings Announced (6 replies)
- Is Blount Memorial Hospital in trouble again? (5 replies)
- Gas prices on the rise (3 replies)
- Thank you, Rockford Mayor Koella Re property reappraisal (1 reply)
TN Progressive
- Maryville Arts Walk - 3rd Thursday - today thru Oct. 15 (BlountViews)
- Candidate for U.S. Rep., against Burchett campaigns Saturday, 4/18/2026, Blount County (BlountViews)
- PRISMA/Blount Memorial Hospital laying off 85 employees (BlountViews)
- Alcoa working to bring Costco to town (BlountViews)
- WATCH THIS SPACE. (Left Wing Cracker)
- America As It Is Right Now (RoaneViews)
- A friend sent this: From Captain McElwee's Tall Tales of Roane County (RoaneViews)
- The Meidas Touch (RoaneViews)
- Massive Security Breach Analysis (RoaneViews)
- (Whitescreek Journal)
- My choices in the August election (Left Wing Cracker)
- July 4, 2024 - aka The Twilight Zone (Joe Powell)
TN Politics
- How TN Republican lawmakers insulated Musk’s Boring Company tunnel in Nashville from local officials (TN Lookout)
- Tennessee House passes Shelby County district attorney removal bill (TN Lookout)
- Tax Day 2026: Democrats and Republicans battle over impact of new Trump tax cuts (TN Lookout)
- Just 2% of immigration arrests by Memphis Safe Task Force were for violent crime, records show (TN Lookout)
- John Cole’s Tennessee: Yass, girl! (TN Lookout)
- Nashville tourism zone bill moves through Tennessee Legislature (TN Lookout)
Knox TN Today
- RoJo the Rooster (Knox TN Today)
- Tranquility Point Sunset: A Decade-Old Favorite from Panthertown Valley (Knox TN Today)
- CAK musical + Farragut athletics + Mag Comic Expo + Vol Nurse Day + BGC opens in Campbell County (Knox TN Today)
- Many sales last week: Largest was $44M transfer (Knox TN Today)
- Everyday Genius: Sunday night hacks to save your whole week (Knox TN Today)
- ArtBeat: Spotlight on local arts events (Knox TN Today)
- April 16 HEADLINES: News and events from the World, the USA, Tennessee, Knox & Historic Notes (Knox TN Today)
- Weekend Scene has events from Brew Tour to Star Trek’s Shatner (Knox TN Today)
- Vaughn Pharmacy provides solutions for Stress Awareness Month (Knox TN Today)
- New Business Spotlight: Ace Pickleball (Knox TN Today)
- Ten years on: A look back at how the Knoxville Sessions finally found an audience (Knox TN Today)
- The Book Whisperer has seven on Spring reading list (Knox TN Today)
Local TV News
- 3 injured after self-driving Tesla crashes into Clinton dance studio (WATE)
- Exploring the 'peaceful side' of the Smokies: How biking is growing in Townsend (WATE)
- Woman indicted after crash into Knoxville assisted living facility that killed man (WATE)
- Lawsuit claims Knox County deputy arrested sober driver for DUI (WATE)
- Permit denied for proposed landfill in Scott County as community fights against it (WATE)
- Protest or disruption? Tennessee's Charlie Kirk Act raises new questions on campus (WATE)
News Sentinel
State News
- Hamilton County Commission makes Urban League ‘whole’ with $450k grant - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- ‘Devastating for us’: Businesses, commissioners question plan to move county incubator - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Man who fled Hamilton County court arrested in Nashville - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Robert Donohoe - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
Wire Reports
- Ex-Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax and wife found dead in murder-suicide, police say - The Washington Post (US News)
- AP Exclusive: Europe has ‘maybe 6 weeks of jet fuel left,’ energy agency head warns - AP News (Business)
- S&P 500 and Nasdaq pull back after hitting fresh record highs: Live updates - CNBC (Business)
- Navy reservist caught following murder of wife, whose body was found in freezer - NBC News (US News)
- Netflix reports earnings after the bell. Here's what to expect - CNBC (Business)
- Iran War Live Updates: Hegseth and Pentagon Officials Speak on U.S. Military Blockade - The New York Times (US News)
- Pope says ‘world is being ravaged by a handful of tyrants’ amid feud with Trump’s White House - The Guardian (US News)
- Live: Senate voting on reopening mining near Boundary Waters - Star Tribune (US News)
- China’s G.D.P. Stronger Than Expected, Led by Infrastructure Spending - The New York Times (Business)
- Airline CEOs urged by lawmaker to lower fares if fuel prices come down - CNBC (Business)
- Rise in Young Men's Religiosity Realigns Gender Gaps - Gallup News (US News)
- Johnson tries again on spy powers vote amid GOP rebellion - Politico (US News)
- US weekly jobless claims decline as labor market remains stable - Yahoo Finance (Business)
- The AI 50 Brink List - Forbes (Business)
- Kennedy returns to Capitol Hill with clout diminished - Axios (US News)
Local Media
Lost Medicaid Funding
Search and Archives
TN Progressive
Nearby:
- Blount Dems
- Herston TN Family Law
- Inside of Knoxville
- Instapundit
- Jack Lail
- Jim Stovall
- Knox Dems
- MoxCarm Blue Streak
- Outdoor Knoxville
- Pittman Properties
- Reality Me
- Stop Alcoa Parkway
Beyond:
- Nashville Scene
- Nashville Post
- Smart City Memphis
- TN Dems
- TN Journal
- TN Lookout
- Bob Stepno
- Facing South


This kind of community scare
This kind of community scare me.
Les casinos en ligne s'imposent comme les meilleurs sites pour gagner de l'argent.This kind of community makes
This kind of community makes me envious.
signs = bell ringing
McDonald’s refers to signs not by height, but by dollar amount. They point to sign, and say “that’s a million dollar unit”. They have made a science correlating sign height with revenue.
The problem isn’t businesses doing what’s best for their bottom lines; the problem is the Pavlovian conditioning of the broader consumer market.
I’d bet you a Happy Meal toy you’re not going to change that. And the multibillion dollar “big sign” using industries would bet you’d go broke trying.
Expectations
It all comes down to the community's expectations and standards. If you expect/allow big and ugly, that's what you'll get. All the major chains, whether fast food or big boxes, have different storefronts and signage that they use depending on what the location allows.
In other words, they'll put in a nice store with a low sign if they have to because that's what is expected - otherwise, you get the big sign and the cheapest storefront if they can get away with it.
That's why I'm saying we need to revisit our signage ordinances and raise our expectations. If we continue to allow giant signs, it leads to an arms race where the signs get bigger and brighter as they try to outdo the next sign.
All the major chains, whether
All the major chains, whether fast food or big boxes, have different storefronts and signage that they use depending on what the location allows.
They sure do. Back recently from a trip to Oregon, where I saw all kind of big boxes in downtown Portland, all built like urban stores, not suburban ones.
The big boxes has alternate models in their portfolios. They just won't use 'em unless they have to.
This kind of community scare
This kind of community scare me.
What about it you scared of?
That's all well and good for
That's all well and good for new development, but are there any examples where a community has actually put the genie back in the bottle and managed to cause forests of giant signs to shrink?
If you attempt to put in place new requirements community-wide, it's hard to require that anyone replace existing signage, and it would probably actually incentivize sprawl to grandfather in existing signs but require someone who opens up next door to adhere to new rules. They might just look at their comparative disadvantage at the infill location and instead choose to go to a new greenfield development, where at least all the neighbors are on even ground, signage-wise.
If this is the case you are
If this is the case you are referring to, Cary, NC, is possibly an unusual circumstance. I'm not sure a federal judge would rule that Wal-Mart had a constitutional right to have a large sign.
It's a good thing Port Orange
It's a good thing Port Orange came up with these ordinances 20 years ago, as did Lake Mary, and probably a lot of other concerned municipalities, e.g. Germantown, TN.
You have to start somewhere. I'm sure there are communities that are trying to fix existing problems. Port Orange is working on it in the Ridgewood section. With all of the empty stores around here, I think there must be other reasons for building in new locations. Why not get it right the second time? And, if good ordinances are put in place maybe "sprawl" won't be so prevalent.
Any changes to the sign
Any changes to the sign ordinance here would almost certainly grandfather in existing signs.
BTW, McDonalds on Cumberland is getting ready to take down their pole sign and put up a monument one. Kudos to them.
And I doubt that inability to erect a ginormous sign is going to run any business out of Knox County. That's always the threat when these kind of moves are proposed, and they rarely materialize.
Grandfathering Signs
Although larger signs would probably be grandfathered, one approach that would eventually remove many of them is to require that on-premise signs come down if the business that is being advertised changes. So for example, a large sign advertising "Kroger" would have to come down if Kroger is no longer operating there.
Another approach is called amortization, whereby the business owner keeps to keep the sign only for so many years and then it is retired after they have received the full "value" of it.