Tue
May 29 2007
10:22 pm
An African American friend of mine feels the black community should show up in huge numbers to let everyone know they aren't just going to take the insult of the Klan rally in Knoxville go unnoticed.
My own take on this is to just ignore them. These hate mongers love media attention and crave opposition. I think it's far better to belittle them by staying away, staying silent, and therefore showing them they simply don't count. On the other hand, my friend's view has some merits.
Any opinions on this?
Carole Ann
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Klan
Carole, I think your response is on the money. The only thing these morons have going for them is the media attention they may garner. Let them spout their garbage to the sound of silence.
Larry Van Guilder
Klan who? Where? Ignore the
Klan who? Where?
Ignore the SOBs.
Ignore
My vote is to ignore them. Giving them attention only validates them. Only give attention when they act ie: Al Quieda and other terrorists. Then the attention should be swift and convincing.
great idea
I agree with Wayne that we should treat the white supremacists like we treated Al Quieda: when we hear they are coming, ignore them, clear some brush, don't alert airport security, don't inquire with law enforcement or intelligence agencies about ongoing investigations or surveillance, and have the cabinet stop using domestic carriers; and then ONCE THEY ACT abandon all regard for human rights, poke holes in the intelligence firewall for creepy foreigners who you'll later discover are double agents, browbeat and undermine government analysts until they tell you what you want to hear, punish them for it later, squander billions of dollars, thousands of soldiers, tens of thousands of civilians and any credibility you have outside the sphere of influence of the shallow and compliant corporate press so as to emphatically say, "If we let this change us, the terrorists will have already won!"
Let's do that. It will be hard to get the grown-ups to go along, but maybe we can find a way to make it really fucking lucrative for them, and then when they realize what's in it for them, all the dipshits will go, "Hey, it's cool with the grown-ups, so it must be cool."
Sure, it seems a bit much for just a pinhead parade in Knoxpatch, but ONCE THEY ACT and everyone is pissed, they'll forget it was just a tiny clan of primitive fools.
Wayne, you're definitely on to something!
My own take on this is to
Write lots of letters to Michelle Malkin to be sure that she covers what the "mainstream media" won't -- that her ravings are drawing her natural constituency* slithering and oozing and scampering out from under whatever rotting debris that they happen to inhabit.
(* due apologies to scavenging insects and composting bacteria, who, unlike Malkin, serve an actual purpose.)
____________________________
Am I the only solipsist here?
Pulaski ca. 1990
Sometime around 1990 (I don't remember the exact year), the Klan planned a march and rally in Pulaski, TN (its birthplace). The march was slated to proceed through downtown and end at the courthouse, where a bronze plaque somberly marked the building as the place where the Klan was more or less born.
The townspeople and their elected officials didn't like it one bit, but they could find no constitutionally valid way of stopping the march. So, they choose the next best path:
On the day of the march and rally, every business along the parade route shut down, and every person in town stayed home. Every business shuttered its windows, and every private home drew their curtains closed. At the courthouse, the bronze plaque was removed from the wall, turned around backward, and reattached with the blank backside facing outward.
The Klan marched along empty streets, in front of closed windows, and met an empty bronze face denying them legitimacy.
--Socialist With A Gold Card
"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." -- Brett Butler
A wonderful idea! We
A wonderful idea! We should give the same response to all hate mongers!
silence = ?
It's a wonderful idea if you can pull it off, but Knoxville is not Pulaski. Is it really a good idea to shut down the downtown economy for several hours or a day because some twits are planning to visit?
I think "ignore them" is essentially a form of censorship, and I can't support censorship in any guise. The courts have already decided, rightfully, that the Klan can not be censored.
The rally this weekend was handled well by the media, in my opinion. The Sentinel and the TV coverage was unflattering and unlikely to have attracting any recruits to the racist cause. It is not those who already believe the racist tripe who are at issue here; it is their naive audience. Ignoring them gives them the full attention of that audience, but counter protests and ridicule make recruitment much harder for them.
I think it would be fantastic if a large contingent of black counterprotesters joined the white activists who turned out this weekend when the racist twits return in June. It would be especially sweet if Michelle Malkin and Charlie Daniels get sucked into the pit of idiocy they helped dig.
If ignoring is censorship does that mean we're obliged?
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind this. Do you mean silence as in people who know about atrocities and don't speak up are deemed complicit? This I understand, but holding a legal rally doesn't seem the same. I agree that shutting businesses down for the day could be costly. I imagined the owners themselves preferred to do this. Making the closing of businesses mandatory would not be a very smart or fair thing.
To the idea that they always come back when not confronted, where did this come from? Are there any examples? What examples of them retreating in the face of confrontration are out there?
My only concern would be the possibility the Klan members might taunt some black person to the point where they did something that got them arrested. That would just prove the idiotic viewpoint these people are trying to promote. Could it be fear of this that made so few black people participate in the anti-protest?
How about driving the goons out with an enormous African drumming event. Surely the sound of dozens of pounding djembes would drive them nuts. There is a lot of power in drumming. Sound has often been used to scare enemies or to flush prey from hidden grasses.
It is interesting that the black community didn't have a stronger presence the last time. Was this because not that many people are regular readers of the KNS or watching the 6 o'clock news? How many people knew about this rally before hand?
The churches are the great mobilizers in the black community, along with the NAACP. I wonder what those two groups think the best strategy would be?
If only white people counter-rally, then I think they have a right to as they are members of this community who care about it's reputation. It doesn't mean however they are necessarily representing the way the black community would want this handled.
Do you think having a community meeting between members of the black community and the white community to create a dialogue about how to combat racial hatred in Knoxville would help?
At least members of both communities would be on the same page and understanding each others' thoughts and feelings about this.
Wow! That Pulaski strategy is very impressive...
So the Klan threw a party but nobody came!
I tend to agree that even Klan demonstrations should be covered by the press, though the conservative ones tend to glorify these events. Using quotes from the leader ought to be omitted however, as most things they have to say are not news, just the same old crap. I also think the mayor should stand up during these times to proclaim Knoxville as a city with no taste for hatred, that we're a city that enjoys, applauds, and promotes our diversity.
I think the KKK rally is planned for June 16th, but I'm not really sure.
Klouns
I thought the Klouns who were slightly shown in the NS photo were great. Painted faces, white dresses and laughing seemed a very appropriate response.
News coverage
In a prior thread someone criticized TV news for covering the last demonstration. I don't see it that way. These demonstrations are news.
I think one can make a good argument that the news shouldn't interview the people leading the rally, thus giving them a louder microphone. But I disagree with those who say the news shouldn't cover the event.
Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.
So what's the date of this
So what's the date of this blessed event?
KKKooks
Ignore them or shoot them, anything else just lifts them up.
It might be good for a laugh in a roundabout sort of way. You should show up with signs that say Welcome Amerikan Taliban.
"The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open."
My brother had an
My brother had an interesting take on this. He thinks that if every black person started wearing confederate flag jewelry and had battle flag license plates on their ride, it would devalue the currency and make the flag a nonissue.
I think the battle flag is such a trivial symbol, who would miss it?
Anyway, I still want to put in a plug for the idea that bigotry is fear. Confrontation would reinforce the defense mechanisms for these obviously insecure people. Barring a more constructive approach, I suggest leaving them alone in their misery. All they can hope to get at this point is some attention, and any confrontation that results in violence only wins them converts.
My brother had an
My brother had an interesting take on this. He thinks that if every black person started wearing confederate flag jewelry and had battle flag license plates on their ride, it would devalue the currency and make the flag a nonissue.
A couple of years ago a black man, who I assume wasn't even from the area, was filmed walking along Alcoa Highway carrying a rebel flag. I thought that was the greatest idea to combat the stigma associated with the rebel flag. If I remember correctly, Bubba even posted some pictures on the blog that he'd taken of the man.
What if the local stations and other news organizations, instead of showing any news of the march, on the day that it is to happen, do blitz stories of the valuable contributions that local Blacks, known and previously unknown, have made to our community.
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
JaHu, that black guy
JaHu, that black guy carrying the Confederate flag is a well-known nut from North Carolina who has been a tool of neoConfederate and racist groups all over the South for quite some time now. I've forgotten his name, but he doesn't have both oars in the water.
You'll see plenty of "rebel" flags on the news Saturday.
ignore them
Rikki,
You are right we all took there threats lightly even in President Clintons' term. I suggest you google Gen. Carl Stiner (a local hero) and see what he has to say about our enemy in the middle east.
hall tax
R. Neal,
You are right about the only thing worse is the iimmoral inheritance tax on money that has already been taxed multiple times. If it is passed on to our family let it be taxed as it is spent or if we must keep our federal income tax let the income it produces be taxed.
I think it would be
Help to hang this shit around their necks.
Michelle Malkin - mouthpiece for the Vanguard "No Jews, Just Right" News Network.
Here's a sample from their blog (no link, you'll have to find it yourself... don't want to drive traffic to them):
The above was written by Alex Linder, the exact same peckerwood that was pinched by the KPD, most likely for his own safety. He's begging for money for his "legal defense" at his blog.
Hal Turner apparently supports the Kluxers as well...
____________________________
Am I the only solipsist here?
A video of Turner's complete
A video of Turner's complete speech is linked from that site and it's worth a listen, if you can stomach it.
The most shocking thing he said was that he was headed up to Kentucky to meet with his Klan connections to discuss a plan to send "teams" to Knoxville to put an end to "savage black crimes." He's talking about lynching.
And he's not only talking about lynching "savage black criminals," but elected and appointed officials who "ignore" said "savage black criminals."
That brought a big applause line.
His speech as a whole was extremely incendiary, and I wonder if issuing fatwas on our "elected and appointed officials" crosses the line between protected speech and assault. I don't think death threats are protected.
They are particularly POed at Randy Nichols and IV Owen. Owen bothers them a lot, because they say he took some kind of counter-terrorism course in Israel and they evidently hate Jews more than anybody.
who leads?
rikki, i think your invitation for black people to "join" the white protesters has it backwards. white people do indeed need to be on the (metaphorical) front lines of the struggle against white supremacy, it is our responsibility. but people of color need to lead and set the agenda. to do it any other way is to perpetuate another form of racism.
observing the protest from the sidelines with a friend who is a mexicano activist, i did find the absurdist theater of the 'coup clutz clowns' to be a clever. i had to laugh at points, despite the sickening nature of the overall scene. but it also seems that the mass of protesters (which was almost completely white, with a leadership that seemed to be entirely white -- correct me if i am wrong here) were completely unconcerned that local people-of-color-led organizations (such as the institute for race relations and the naacp) made clear calls to ignore the protests. my friend agreed. again, correct me if i am wrong on this, but i don't think i am.
let's call this for what it is: white chauvanism. i am not trying to be superior: as a white person, i have made white chauvanist mistakes before and i'm sure i will in the future -- i don't think there is some magical 'finish line' after which i can stop worrying about my own racism. (i don't feel guilty about this, just accountable). i consider the counter-protesters to be allies, and i do genuinely admire their tenacious efforts to stand down the klan, as well as the cleverness of their tactics. in june, i hope these individuals will make the effort to hear out what saadia williams and other leaders in the black community have to say on the issue. i really don't care what the response is (though my own personal take is to ignore), so long as progressive forces are unified.
are white activists in knoxville willing to seek out leadership from leaders in communities of color?
your invitation for black
your invitation for black people to "join" the white protesters has it backwards
Perhaps in some meta-sense it's backwards, but in context it was a chronological statement. The white counter-protesters already showed up once and presumably will again.
Depriving someone of attention is a personal strategy. It works if the attention is yours to control, as with a parent and child, but it does not work if attention can come from diverse corners. I don't think 'ignore' is a practical strategy for a whole community to pull off. I already explained that I think the critical strategic focus is the naive audience that could fall prey to the racist twits. I would love to discuss this with Saadia Williams or Ezra Maize or Ron Davis. Maybe someone can invite them to join this discussion.
A competing gathering nearby is another form of counter-protest that has worked in the past, and that might be something to work on for June 16. Personally, I'd be more likely to attend that than confront the supremacists, but I still appreciate the clowns.
Trrol allert
Anybody have any new recipes?
Anybody have any new recipes?
From Bobby Flay:
Grilled Figs With Vanilla-Orange Creme Fraiche and Toasted Pistachios:
Vanilla-orange creme fraiche:
1/2 cup creme fraiche
2 tbsp fresh orange juice
1 tsp finely grated orange zest
1 tsp pure vanilla extract
Whisk those ingredients together. Cover and refrigerate for at least one hour, and up to one day before serving.
Grilled Figs:
12 black Mission figs
1 tbsp canola oil
1/4 cup chopped pistachios, toasted
To toast the pistachios:
Heat the grill to medium-low. Put a single layer of the pistachios in a skillet or saute pan and heat for 5-7 minutes until light golden brown and fragrant, shaking the pan every couple of minutes to prevent burning. Transfer the nuts to a plate and let them cool completely.
To grill the figs:
Heat the grill to medium.
Brush the figs with the oil and grill until golden brown on both sides, 4-5 minutes total.
Divide the figs among 4 dessert bowls, top with a dollop of the creme fraiche, and sprinkle with the pistachios.
[Editorial comment: Mmmmmm ...]
--Socialist With A Gold Card
"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." -- Brett Butler
Sort of related, some TDOC
Sort of related, some TDOC crime statistics...
Of the 100 inmates on death row in Tennessee, 57% are white, 40% are black. (The rest: 1 Asian, 1 Hispanic, and 1 Native American.)
The June 2006 inmate population (17,827 males) was 54.5% white and 46.2% black. For females (1134) it was 68.4% white and 29.6% black.
FY05-06 sentencing:
• 3.07% for murder,
• 3.47% for rape,
• 8.76% for aggravated assault,
• 15.09% for burglary,
• 6.19% for forgery/fraud,
• 10.36% for larceny/theft/robbery,
• 7.17% for aggravated robbery,
• 26.48% for drug offenses (15.04% cocaine, 11.44% other).
No racial breakdown is provided.
Have we ever had a troll
Have we ever had a troll from the mental health field here before?
Every day, and in every way, we're getting better and better.
Come See Us at
The Hill Online
More 2006 crime statistics
More 2006 crime statistics from the TBI...
Murders: 409
Rape: 2165
Kidnapping: 1340
Aggravated Assaults: 32,390
Simple Assaults: 94,046
Intimidation: 32,685
Burglary: 63,014
Vandalism: 77,702
Drug violations: 41,937
Drug equipment violations: 21,292
Arrests for crimes against persons (murder, kidnapping, rape, assault):
36.9% black
62.0% white
Arrests for crimes against society (narcotics, gambling, prostitiution, weapons violations):
39.0% black
60.1% white
Victim's race:
Murder: 220 black, 177 white
Kidnapping: 586 black, 735 white
Rape: 647 black, 1485 white
2005 reported hate crimes:
Racial:
• Anti-White – 15.0%
• Anti-African American – 65.7%
Religious:
• Anti-Jewish – 29.4%
• Anti-Protestant – 17.6%
• Anti-Islamic – 11.7%
• Anti-Other Religion – 23.5%
Sexual orientation:
• Anti-Male Homosexual – 69.2%
• Anti-Female Homosexual – 23.0%
Hate crimes as a percentage of all reported crimes: 0.06%
(From Randy's excellent post
(From Randy's excellent post above...
What's "intimidation," from a legal standpoint? Threatening someone with a firearm?)
Microsoft?
I didn't realize that a high ranking Microsoft guy lived around here. Nice pool. I thought you would have a nicer one since all you microsoft guys made out so well with your stock.
Smarter trolls, please.
Smarter trolls, please.
I didn't realize that a high
I didn't realize that a high ranking Microsoft guy lived around here. Nice pool. I thought you would have a nicer one since all you microsoft guys made out so well with your stock.
You stuck it in the wrong thread there, Wayne. I'm over here. Shall I send Gino over to give you some help? He keyboards sometimes with his muzzle as he watches Animal Planet.
Come See Us at
The Hill Online
gino is sooo cute!
and I gotta say...there's nothing worse than a not-so-smart troll, unless it's a not-so-smart troll with portfolio envy. (There's no Enzyte to fix that.)
_________________________________________________________
"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali
Gino's a Sweetheart, Too
...there's nothing worse than a not-so-smart troll, unless it's a not-so-smart troll with portfolio envy
Would that I had a portfolio that Wayne could envy. I merely mentioned in another thread, when he asked about my credentials, that my name is mentioned occasionally in articles about Microsoft. Of course it would since they are headquartered in Redmond, WA.
Surely he doesn't actually believe I have a key to the executive washroom?
Come See Us at
The Hill Online
Gino
Gino is a great looking dog. I had one like him in college that was poisoned by someone. No threats necessary I thought we wre having a fun little back and forth. Gotta go so I can work on my portfolio.
There you go again with
There you go again with another one. Just because I offer you Gino's help in posting, you assume a threat. Having owned a Rottweiler, you, of all people should know that, properly socialized, they are one of the gentlest of breeds. The only way to get hurt by Gino is if he steps on your foot.
He has a habit of laying his nose on my lap or the keyboard while watching the nearby TV causing all manner of strange happenings on the PC. They resemble some of the posts here, thus the offer of his help.
You've probably already noticed he helps me with my comments from time to time.
Come See Us at
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klan rally in june
I read all the comments about the rally in june.I wish people would get educated about the rallies,before they post a comment about them.Very few people realize what the klan stands for.Does anyone out there know what the bible says about race.The klan can teach you the bible, the right way.There is no hate about it.It is the gospel truth what they come to teach to the people.Like christ himself they are denied and looked upon as evil.The jews killed christ and they still deny him.People better wake up in this country all the immigration and ALL the RACES mixing their blood lines this is not hate, that these people try to teach, but the gospel as written by our Father in heaven.People are blinded to the truth.The bible says you will be.Satan is the prince of this world and he rules it.Our Lord in the Bible says I am the word,the truth and the light(not dark)If you believe not in my father you can not believe in me.You can not enter the kingdom of heaven with out salvation in the NAME of my father.Believe not in the word and you believe not in the Savior or the Father.There for you deny Christ when you deny the word and the word is there.there is no hate in what they teach, scold and poke fun all you like they will do the will of the Father and you will deny him and the father will say depart from me i never knew you.DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE FATHERS NAME?
And banned in 3, 2, 1 ...
POOF!
Yep.
Just like that, Nelle.
The media has to report the news...but
I would suggest the KNS do an article that says:
Klan came today.
It might fit right in if placed on the cartoon page.
Thanks Beanster
I've forgotten his name, but he doesn't have both oars in the water.
You know Betty, I would have been fine and dandy not knowing that information. You destroyed the image I had of him standing up to bigotry by fighting fire with fire.
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
Meet H.K. Edgerton, who
Meet H.K. Edgerton, who longs for them happy, happy slavery times:
(link...)
Why ignore the Klan...
Isn't ignoring the Klan just giving them the satisfaction that they are right in what the believe...which is hate? Doesn't that give them a sense of power? Why not show them Knoxville, TN doesn't tolerate hate? Ignore the Klan? I don't think so...I'm planning to counter. I'm not going to hate anybody back...but to fight back. Fight back the hate and fight for Knoxville, TN to let others know racism and hate will not be tolerated!
I just happened upon this
I just happened upon this great quote:
"The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye -
the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract" -
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Isn't ignoring the Klan just giving them the satisfaction that they are right in what the believe...which is hate?
Maybe so! Ignoring them might be the wrong way to combat it. If it were possible to Embarrass them on TV, now that might work.
Another great quote:
"I hate hate'n"
-
My Brother
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
Great quote
JaHu-
I like your brother's quote!
The first quote makes sense...but the people of Knoxville should try and pour the light on something positive...and AWAY from the hate and the negative image the Klan is trying to convey in our community. Remember the key is not to hate back but to fight back...for what is right and good. I mean if you pour light on what is right and good would it not contract? I believe it would!! So let's try and take the light back Knoxville!
Why not have a postive multiracial gathering that day?
If there was an event equal or larger in size to the Klan rally (in a different location) wouldn't the media have to cover that? Knoxville doesn't necessarily have to confront the idiots, we could just throw a bigger party with a different more positive theme, one that would draw media attention away from the Klan's silly little event. It could be called Celebrating Knoxville's Diversity Day.