Tue
Sep 2 2014
07:14 am
By: bizgrrl

The Uber ride sharing service was announced to have entered the Knoxville, TN, market the last week of August, 2014.

It is also reported that "it's illegal for these uber drivers to operate in the City of Knoxville." This wasn't reported until the 8th paragraph, after all the PR and hype to promote the service.

Currently, Germany has halted Uber's services pending a lawsuit. "Uber can't offer its services without a specific permit under German transport laws applies nationwide. " Taxi Deutschland, [a German cab association], said Uber allows drivers to skirt safety and insurance regulations that apply to conventional cabs, and for employers to avoid sector benefit and wage agreements and taxes.

I'm all for capitalism, being an entrepreneur, free market, etc. It just seems we all should have to play by the same rules. Ha! Plus, is it safe?

Tess's picture

yes

I agree with you, Bizgrrl. It sounds like an unregulated taxi service to me as well. And, I do not think this would be safe around here.

I do think there could be a market for a service to drive elderly people to doctor's appts or to the grocery store and have someone accompany them on such. Maybe there is already something like that?

Moon's picture

safety

I do not think this would be safe around here

why is that? i regularly use Lyft, an Uber competitor. both the driver and i are tracked by Gps, so the company knows when i get in his car and when i get out. i see a picture of the driver and his car before "summonsing" him.

at first, i also thought it might be unsafe, until i thought through the technological protections. it is much safer than hailing a taxi in a big city. and both the cars and drivers are nicer. its also less expensive. in "non taxi" towns like knoxville (im speaking of raleigh and charlotte) is is MUCH quicker than calling a cab company. in those towns the cost is about 60 percent of a taxi.

if the service in knoxville was comparable to what ive seen elsewhere, i would much prefer Lyft over big orange taxi, et al. its not even close.

(please excuse the horrible typing.)

bizgrrl's picture

it is much safer than hailing

it is much safer than hailing a taxi in a big city

Why?

Moon's picture

safety

my comment was about the prospect of the driver being an axe murderer. when i get into a taxi in nyc, no one has any idea where i am or who i am with. the driver may, or may not, have reported that he was picking up a fare. a lyft driver is digitally associated with my phone/me from the moment i click on his car and have him come get me.

the odds of being murdered by a taxi driver who tries not to be discovered are very small. whatever those small odds, they are smaller when there is a real-time digital record of my being in the guy's car.

for the same reason, it is also much, much safer for the driver.

lyft and uber present very real danger, however, to the legacy taxi industry.

Tess's picture

not the driver

I was thinking the exact opposite of the driver being the bad guy. I was thinking about some young person who might think it would be a good idea to make money by driving strangers around.

Moon's picture

strangers - not

you must give lyft a credit card and verifiable id to register. the farew is billed directly to my amex. if i axe murder my driver, the company will almost immediately know it was me.

i think thats much safer for the driver than a nyc taxi picking up strangers. just my guess.

bizgrrl's picture

There are services for the

There are services for the elderly to get rides to doctor appts, grocery store, etc. ETHRA is one. Knox County CAC is another. Knoxville-Knox County CAC Office on Aging also has a Volunteer Assisted Transportation program. Blount County Community Action Agency has also has a volunteer assisted driving program called SMiles, Neighbors driving Neighbors.

Most of these programs required a couple of days advance notice for the service. Not quite as accessible as a taxi, etc.

reform4's picture

This article is worth a read.

I have no problem regulating these services. The original concept of ride-sharing in heavy traffic areas (NYC, San Jose) made sense, but it's clearly gone beyond that.

A good article on Uber:
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/31/why_uber_must_be_stopped/

Stick's picture

Welcome to the New Gilded Age

Complete with casual labor and piecemeal work. But, hey, it's convenient and "disruptive"!

Knoxoasis's picture

If you look at the history of

If you look at the history of professional licensing and regulation, almost all of it was engendered not by public demand but by the industry seeking to have itself regulated, and generally regardless of how its sold (public safety, etc)the real motivator is for the industry to create barriers to competition, keeping service prices artificially high. That's why it costs $45 to go to the airport. Uber is sidestepping that, and that's why there's an uproar. The criticism isn't coming from the general public; it's coming from the industry that's suddenly exposed to real competition.

Here's a prediction: If Uber manages to avoid regulation (if they lobby more successfully than the taxi companies)and come to dominate the market as suggested in the Salon article, look for them to seek government regulation to preserve their own monopoly. Rent seeking behavior is endemic, and can only be stopped when people realize whats really going on. It's never (well, almost never)about safety. Follow the money.

As a local example, who is pushing for the regulation of food trucks in downtown Knoxville?

bizgrrl's picture

Cheaper is not always better.

Cheaper is not always better. Take the airlines. People complain about them all the time, but they would complain more if the prices went up to give better services.

The FDIC was created by the government after the Great Depression and many bank failures. People don't always initiate regulations. They just don't know how or what can be done. Government and/or industry generally initiate regulations.

It is interesting that there is no shuttle service at TYS. No buses, just taxis or friends and family. Probably the norm at smaller airports.

michael kaplan's picture

it is kind of ridiculous that

it is kind of ridiculous that there is no shuttle or shared taxi to the airport. it's the 'thousand points of light' mentality. just don't get sick ...

Andy Axel's picture

Brokered monopolies are often

Brokered monopolies are often ridiculous.

Stick's picture

Okay guys... Uber (and the

Okay guys... Uber (and the so-called sharing economy) creates real problems for progressives that need to be considered, primary among them the casualization of labor. [link]

This interventionism, this activism, is crucial for Third Wayism to work – you have to convince people who identify as on the left that what you’re doing is not a betrayal of their old ideological commitments, but an extension of them to meet new challenges that somehow, never quite explicitly stated, mean that social democracy has to be abandoned...

And only progressives can make these fights about more than just which candidates win, but whether we want to live in a world in which Uber and its ilk disrupt full-time employment, a living wage, and economic security, or in a world in which all workers have those things by right.

bizgrrl's picture

Thanks.

Thanks.

Stick's picture

During the polar vortex

During the polar vortex craziness, I needed to catch a flight in the middle of a snowstorm for a job interview. A local taxi company with its own garage put snow tires on some of its fleet and was able to get me to the airport with several inches of snow on the ground. Thanks to that service I was able to catch the last flight out before everything was shut down. I seriously doubt that a millennial in a civic would have provided the same service. It was worth every penny.

My point is this: Everybody on here is talking about how convenient it is for them without thinking beyond the here and now. What is the outcome of this move toward the “sharing economy”? What will the future look like? What are the material interests of those promoting the “sharing economy”? What we're moving toward is this... The New Gilded Age of casual labor. The personal is political. How you spend your money is important.

reform4's picture

Yep, and if the taxi companies were all out of business...

... you'd be stuck at home.

Leland Wykoff's picture

Taxi Share In NYC Study--Radical Changes

The mass transit cabal really has it out for Uber and Lyft Line. It is clearly rent seeking by Taxi/Limo providers and Commissions.

New study by mathematicians and engineers finds taxicab share use in New York City could result in a 40 percent reduction of taxi trips. Overview article here:

(link...)

Note how mass transit apologists express deep concern over the result of cheaper, cleaner, faster, more comfortable options cutting into the subway and bus business. Rent seeking served beside bad social engineering. Rich.

For a searchable data base of taxi/limo trips in NYC please see:

(link...)

Note the government agency has collected this data for decades and could not find a way to exploit and tweak-out efficiencies lurking within the regulatory process.

The folks working in, and the rabid supporters of, mass transit are motivated by blind ideology and not rational economically justifiable policy or models.

Remember not long ago the Mass Transit True Believers attempted to inflict upon Great Smoky Mountains National Park visitors mandatory (read "monopoly") rubber tire buses spewing diesel fumes as they lumbered thru Cades Cove.

Fortunately that effort was defeated.

Zealots. Plain and simple.

GDrinnen2's picture

I've spent the last 17 months

I've spent the last 17 months in Washington Heights. Public transit is strong enough here that I don't use uber much and the shady town car guys have been rendered less necessary since the green cabs came to be. Uber is very convenient and feels safer to me, but just haven't needed it much in NYC.

However I think uber could find a niche in cities like Knoxville where cabs are nearly obsolete and overpriced. Everything will hinge on the demand. If demand is high enough to warrant enough cars, I suspect they will do well. Otherwise they will be as rare as Knoxville cabs, only nicer cars.

GDrinnen2's picture

Yeah. Can't tell you how

Yeah. Can't tell you how many times I caught a cab at my office by Columbia and told them I was going to Inwood/Washington Heights and got a "awwwww man. Why don't you catch the next one?" or "I'm actually done today. Just forgot to turn my light off"

tragicallyhip's picture

Fascinated by Uber, Lyft and others

I'm personally fascinated by Uber, Lyft and other companies, both the convenience they offer and the legal and regulatory challenges they pose.

I've always thought of Uber in these terms. A black car service is licensed to operate in a market. You can use the phone to call them to schedule a pickup. That pickup can be now (if available) or at some point in the future. This is all legal, licensed and regulated (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong). Same with taxi services, which are also licensed to pick up people curbside.

Since Uber doesn't operate fleets of vehicles, it must fall under a different classification than black car and taxi services.

With Uber Black, in one sense, they only replace the phone with an app with all sorts of modern conveniences, like one tap service request, geolocation routing, status to pickup location, arrival notification and so on. The black car service is still the licensed provider, with Uber providing a marketing, lead gen, and payment platform to those companies. Uber Black, to me, seems perfectly legit from a legal and regulatory standpoint.

But what's wrong with flipping the business model, as long as the car services are licensed and regulated? Black car services seem to love Uber, who take on all the software development, technology infrastructure, and marketing costs, and increase yield of their sedans. It's the taxis that balk, and that's primarily because Uber has made taking a typically nicer, cleaner sedan and better customer experience as convenient or moreso than taking a taxi.

Uber X, on the other hand, is an entirely different animal. There drivers are unregulated, random citizens who simply want to earn a bit of extra cash by picking up fares. From one perspective, they are supplying the exact same software and services to someone. On the other, that someone is performing a service that has otherwise been a regulated one for many, many years, and is regulated in part for safety (general traffic safety, passenger safety, and the like). To me, this is where fairness breaks down... if Uber X can compete against taxis, there is an un-level playing field likely providing an advantage to one side over the other (I say likely, because my attempts to use Uber X were utter failures... the drivers tend to be much more unreliable that taxis and Uber Black sedans).

I've used Uber several times in cities on business trips, and have enjoyed the experience, although the price was too steep for me to consider using it on an everyday basis. Sorry, I could talk about this all day except that I have a job to get back to. ;-)

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