*yawn*

Oh, I'm sorry; did somebody say something?

Congrats! Does that mean we won't have to hear from CBT anymore?

KTB

SKB, you may have finally found the secret incantation necessary to banish #9 back to the pits of the underworld: remind him this site doesn't belong to him.

Congratulations.

--Socialist With A Gold Card

I'm still here and I suppose a 'trusted user', since my posts still appear. I do wish for a bit more balance, meaning a few more moderate and/or conservative voices. It would be easier on folks like me given I don't have the time to address the posts, research and arguments put forth by a dozen or more folks. I also believe it would represent the community as a whole. But, it's Randy's site and KnoxViews can be whatever he wants it to be.

This is the only blog I read with any regularity. I don't post on any other blog, with a rare exception. I just don't have the time. It's certainly not because I find people who agree with me. I read this blog because it's interesting and no other local blog has the readership and participation of KnoxViews.

I've never been much for the 'dittos', where everyone just agrees with the others. That's boring. I would think some of the more liberal folks on this blog would tire of reading one side of the discussion. And, there is always more than one side.

So, I pretty consistently test as a liberal leaning libertarian. I own guns and served ten years in the military. Until the reign of George the Moron, I considered myself a political independent. I've owned SUVs and lived in suburbia. Yet, I am a trusted user and presumably, one of the far left thinkers described in #9's brilliant analysis.

Is thinking now liberal and no one told me?

CAFKIA

----------------------------------------------------------- 

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
  - William G. McAdoo

Glad to know you're still around CBT (and with a blog).

KTB

I do wish for a bit more balance, meaning a few more moderate and/or conservative voices. ... I also believe it would represent the community as a whole.

The KNS and several local blogs have plenty of that slant, though I don't think it's done to best represent the community, nor should it be. Isn't it better not to just be an echo chamber for the political majority? Coddles ignorance, and we've got plenty of that in ET for the whole state.

It would be easier on folks like me given I don't have the time to address the posts, research and arguments put forth by a dozen or more folks.

If one doesn't have time to put work into their arguments, it reflects poorly on one's credibility. I have a life too (believe it or not!), but I'm not going waste my words if I'm too busy to back them up. I'm not going to say "trust me, but you all need to get a life." Please consider how condescending that can sound.

But I'm glad your here, CBT. As far as I'm concerned, 9 too. I can't imagine what made SayUnk go off. Things are never Fair and Balanced enough for some.

I realize that time is a precious commodity for many folks CBT but, if you read some of the discussions that you do not comment on, you might notice that many of us who are allegedly on the same side, pretty frequently disagree. As a matter of fact, that is a well known hallmark of the liberal condition. We don't ditto. Anyone is only as good as their last argument. The fact that I am Rikki's friend makes me more likely to publically disagree with him, not less. There is not one person on this blog or, at the brewpub that I feel any hesitancy about disagreeing with. Hell, I will look for something to disagree with if there is nothing obvious. I expect accusations of all of us being on the same side from the idiot gallery but, you actually know many of us. You have participated in meat space discussions and if you would remember, you have seen/heard us disagree and discuss. Yes, we are somewhat addicted to facts and we do like followable logic but, we are not dittoheads for anyone, famous, obscure or inbetween.

Take a look at the recent political correctness thread. Take a look at the recent electoral college thread. Look at some of the Clinton comments by the liberals. There are things that we largely agree on, for instance, that Bush/Cheney used manufactured intel to start the Iraq war. We have argued among ourselves over whether they were fradulently installed. Why do you not notice all of that and more? "There is none so blind as he who will not see"

You don't have to or even need to agree with us but, you really ought to admit to yourself that the viewpoints here are many and varied.

CAFKIA

----------------------------------------------------------- 

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
  - William G. McAdoo

I don't always agree with CBT but I like engaging with him on this blog.

BTW, I am an occasional contributer to The Moderate Voice, which is a group effort that aims to strike down the political middle. But in reality it's a collection of people who are both leftish and rightish but who are willing to engage each other in argument and not devolve into flamewar. We note over there that "moderate" has more to do with willingness to listen to opposing viewpoints than it does any political ideology called "moderate." It's what makes the blog great.

I've always seen this site as a liberal, Knoxville-area blog and that's what I like about it. I'm liberal and in about one month I will be a Maryville resident so it's nice to see what other likeminded soon-to-be neighbors have to say. It's always seemed that the non-liberals who post here are libertarians (especially on guns) and not necessarily conservatives or right-wingers in the current sense.

No need for an echo chamber, but I don't think this site is one.

Was it the "Which crappy superhero would win in a fight" poll?

Well, for starters, #9 is not SayUncle, as you might have noticed by reading the "Posted by :" marker. It's not a particularly focal point of the posts, but it does do wonders to actually glance at. That includes you, ironically named Factchecker.

Property rights are pretty well illuminated, even through the internet, but I doubt that's what #9 was focused on. For starters, it might have been the change from an open, progressive (left-wing) community to an open (to specific viewpoints), progressive community. Even if you don't have an echo chamber now, it's remarkably hard to see it staying that way when a 'token Republican' is the strongest opposing voice. Not that an echo chamber's a bad thing -- you tend to make up in clicks what you lose in hits -- but it does tend to reduce the quality of a debate, if only by assuring that it never happens. Reducing the number of blog posters (and thus, likely posts), when you're already having difficulties getting multiple posts per day, doesn't seem like a great idea for growth, either.

Of course, it's not like political biases have ever given individuals a reason to disbelieve the veracity of another user's viewpoint. If such a thing had ever happened before, we might even have reason to doubt that responsible opposing Conservative viewpoints will be welcome!

Just as a predictive bet, you may want to go ahead and change the site rules again : liberal can be defined as someone who is socially and economically . American Democratic not only avoids the recent bias against American liberals, but also comes with its own positive associations, while also reducing any potential confusion from libertarian writers that might actually dare to think true speech would be useful even if some people feel it expresses 'hate'.

"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." - Douglas Adams

How many political blogs are there for East Tennessee anyway? There's Instapundit but he doesn't blog about Tennessee issues at all. Most of the conservative TN bloggers are based in Middle Tennessee, or at least they speak of the state as a whole. The Republican bloggers from East TN (like Les Jones) tend not to delve into politics much. Then there are the libertarian types like Say Uncle, but again they aren't doctrinaire Republicans either. The only highly political conservative bloggers in East Tennessee I can think of that post on a regular basis are Michael Silence and that mutant legislator, Stacey Campfield.

All of this is why Knoxviews being so liberal (or liberal at all) ruffles so many feathers. Knoxviews is easily the best all-around East Tennessee political blog, and it happens to be much more liberal than most East Tennessee voters. What the conservatives don't realize is that Knoxviews is popular precisely because liberals in East Tennessee often feel isolated and this medium is a perfect place to find like-minded souls. Knoxviews is more than just a "welcoming place" for East Tennessee liberals, of course, which is why open debate is welcome here. But if you get obnoxiously right wing - or left wing for that matter (remember that bizarro dude who got banned from Daily Kos for claiming it was racist?) - you get banned from here.

I'm trusted.....ohh man, I'm trusted. Yes.

This isn't work for me. I don't give it that much time or attention. I am far more worried about the clients who pay my to develop arguments and the creditbility I have in courts and with other attorneys than on any blog. It is a matter of time, for work, family, with a blog being far(ther) down the list.

The number one issue for credibility as far as I'm concerned is whether someone posts using their own name. It is totally different if you have to take blame and credit for what you say. I understand the arguments for anonymity, some things wouldn't get said, curtails discussion, etc.

A dozen or so people who post regularly on this blog (and more who read it) know me if they see me on the street. I even met one guy in line at the bank who works in the courthouse. He introduced himself and told me he knew who me from my political work and also from my posts on KnoxViews. That's much different than posting behind one or more alias names.

I've given my opinion on KnoxViews. Sometimes I think it would be easier to read and not post. Guess we'll see how things develop.

I would really rather read and comment on a blog with some orientaton. It is more likely to be talking about issues that are on my mind. After all as a great Texan and American (Jim Hightower) said "the only things in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and dead armdillos".
...and this has nothing to do with seeing if I can still post.

I've given my opinion on KnoxViews. Sometimes I think it would be easier to read and not post. Guess we'll see how things develop.

CBT, I feel the same way. Many know I disagree with most on this blog as well. However, I think there are some good discussions, especially in the realm of local politics. Most posters use decent arguments, while some continually use strictly emotional or name-calling arguments. I posted quite a bit for a while, but I have backed off some. This is more due to being busy with other things (I have not posted much on my own blog either).

However, after reading 9's post, I think he has some valid points. There have been times where "responsible conservative" posts have been removed from the front page for no apparent reason other than they fact they had a conservative viewpoint.

How many political blogs are there for East Tennessee anyway?

Just to add to this, mine is a political blog for East TN; sometimes local politics, more national stuff. Of course it is conservative.

Just my $.02

Craig Thomas
(link...)

It's the END OF KNOXVIEWS!

No, it's just the end of what I liked about it. Now, it's just kos-lite.

I appreciate the property rights lesson, folks. But that's really not the issue I had with the recent decision.

It's obvious my participation isn't wanted. I'll oblige.

Bye.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

If not for Knoxviews those of us living ( or planning to live ) in Blount County would have no voice. There is no other place where I can point out that Blount County is going to handle zoning without first running it through the Planning Commission.

(link...)

Or where I can quote the mayor

"If I make the wrong judgment calls, the people will send me home."

and then ask if there is a way we can recall him.

So thanks R.Neal for dealing with the BS and giving the rest of us a place to discuss our local issues.

However, after reading 9's post, I think he has some valid points. There have been times where "responsible conservative" posts have been removed from the front page for no apparent reason other than they fact they had a conservative viewpoint.

Oh? Point to one. Please.

Now, it's just kos-lite.

[snork] Better that than a haven for violence addicts, if you ask me.

It's obvious my participation isn't wanted. I'll oblige.
Bye.

Y'know, having had nothing to do with this decision, I can only suppose that the single most unwanted participant was the digit. It's no small irony that he's keening the loudest about the death of KV. From my perspective, his particular brand of k00ky wail & whine & conspiracy has worn everyone's patience around here thin.

There's a note of trimuphalism in his writing that just irks the living shit out of me too. Maybe that's just me.

FWIW. Never once had I said that SayUncle should be tossed off the reservation, no matter how rough & tumble our exchanges got.

But, your decision is yours. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

____________________________

People getting rich. Some people saying "Markets!" More death. Neil Young. Death.

Just checking my pulse.

Sorry for the error. I didn't think it sounded like Uncle. He knows how to get along...or something like that.

It's obvious my participation isn't wanted. I'll oblige. ...
Now, my kind ain’t wanted there no more.

Now you're being irrational. What is obvious and why? What is "your kind" and how do you think it means you?

The site rules have always been clear who owns the blog, what the predominant political gist is, and who makes the rules. Participation has been encouraged, but that does not mean posting lots of obtuse crap over Randy's welcome mat.

Sometimes I think it would be easier to read and not post.

Didn't know the goal of politics was to be easy. There's always teevee. Anonymity: There are some kooks out there. More dangerous on the right IMO than on the left. Ask metulj 'bout that. Proclaiming one's conservative views in ET is like saying your favorite football school is UT.

As for local conservative blogs, I haven't bothered to look, but there have been several mentioned above: Insta, Craig's, Silence, Les's, I would think SU's would qualify more than this one. But again, responsible conservative views are welcomed by me. Just don't think I'm gonna just sit idle if you say (especially if blindly) what a great job our prez is doing.

The reason I read the posts here, visit often, and comment at times is due largely to the fact that it is not a blog of lock-step talking points, not an echo chamber. There are plenty of places to visit and read for dull and dumbed-down perspectives in ET and nationally. The work maintaining the site and monitoring the forums must be time-consuming and endless. I remain impressed.

Thanks for the comments.

Re. ET conservative blogs and other conservative outlets:

Knoxville News Sentinel
Metro Pulse
Halls Shopper
Terry Frank
Les Jones
SayUncle
David Oatney
Brian Hornback
Instapundit
Lissa Kay
Rich Hailey
Rob Huddleston
TN Politics/Adam Groves
The Rep

And that's just from the KnoxViews blogroll. There are others we don't link to. And we're not saying that's a bad thing. It is what it is. We're just trying to offer an alternative, and we seem to be outnumbered and mostly overpowered. But we're working on that...

I assume the selection was not entirely based on ideological viewpoint. If it was, it must have been way to the left.

/not included in the vast KnoxViews liberal conspiracy

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

I forgot that one. LOL.

Is Terry Frank an East Tennessean? I thought she comes from Nashville?

I looked through each of the ET conservative blogs and found no more than about 2 comments in total. There are more ET conservative blogs because there are more conservatives than liberals in ET. But when you do have a substantial liberal blog in ET you get a LOT of attention - most of it positive from people looking for conversation with relatively like-minded people. Knoxviews succeeds as an alternative media because the mainstream in ET is skewed to the right.

Has Terry Frank discovered the missing WMD in Iraq yet? Until she does, nobody should listen to her.

Is it just me or, in some warped way, does this debate parallel the "Can Farragut secede from Metro?" question?

Can the online persona that is #9 exist without Knoxviews/SKbubba when it essentially grew up in its orbit?

Beside, Randy, I say let him play. I miss the little feller. He's cute when he's angry.

I posed the same question yesterday to cdthomas23. No answer.

C'mon, cdthomas. Point to an instance where a "conservative viewpoint" alone was enough to get a post plonked. I have access to the moderation queues and have yet to find one. Lots of spam. Lots of stuff in poor taste. Lots of flame bait and trollery.

And if I'm combing the comments queue, I don't see any unpublished comments by CBT, Les Jones, or SayUncle. Hm. Why is that, you suppose?

There are a few by The Odd Integer, but far fewer than you might think, given the screeching and gnashing of teeth, and cries of "Help! Help! I'm being suppressed!" There would have been a lot more if I'd had my way, but my hand was stayed a number of times by [sarcasm]Der Obergruppenfuhrer Neal[/sarcasm].

Conservatism gets its fair shake here; admittedly, much fairer than it would be than if this were my house. I'm much less tolerant than Randy is, and I freely admit to that. I hope no one is buying #9's current line of bull, though. He got much better than he deserved for a long, long, long, long, long time. Peter Jackson's King Kong long.

Bottom line: That KV is Kos-lite is a lie. Flat out.

____________________________

People getting rich. Some people saying "Markets!" More death. Neil Young. Death.

I read all three's columes & I believe,in local politics,they like who they like but by golly if who they like does sumthin' they don't like...they hit 'em up side the head.I do know Betty listens to Malone;Sandra went with Madeline & Frank voted for Harold.This old new left hippy supported all three.

Randy has not being entirely forthcoming about the extent of the changes.

It isn't just that you have to be a trusted user to post to the front page. I can't post new threads at all. Not just threads to the front page. I no longer have an option to create blog entries period. I'm guessing SayUncle doesn't, either. I emailed Randy to confirm that the change was intentional.

It's Randy's blog and his choice. He's sent a clear message that he doesn't want me posting here. I'm not going to adjust my politics or genuflect just so in order to become a "trusted user."

The Internet is a big place and there are plenty of other blogs out there. Since I'm no longer welcome to post new entries I'm out of here. Someone try to keep metulj's ego down to sub-planetary dimensions.

www.lesjones.com

* <--my point     what metulj is usually babbling about--> *

I didn't know there were threads that weren't on the front page, other than demoted ones that are the subject of this change. The change has been described as eliminating the need to demote threads that are offensive or far from the publisher's perspective. So no, there necessarily won't be non-front page threads. Makes sense to me.

I hope you don't part ways, Les. The comments are where the debate takes place. But let me just ask, and this is not meant to be rhetorical: Does anyone know of any conservative blogs with any significant traffic that have a more "liberal" posting policy than this one does now? Are there conservative blogs where I can become a user and post an entry (not just a comment) that espouses a liberal viewpoint?

EDIT: I see skb clarified. Someday me lern read to.

How hard can it be to be a trusted user? It must not be hard, because I evidently can still post. And we all know what kind of lose cannon I am!

Well, this is a fine howdy do! As near as I can tell, based on the fact that I can no longer create content, I was not given trusted user status. I checked my posting history, and the majority of my posts here were related to getting Knoxville Bloggers of all political stripes together for good food and fun times.

For this I am banned from creating content?

Alrighty then.

It was nice meeting y'all at the Blogfests, particularly Ms. Bean and cafkia, and I hope to see you at future meetups, but you'll have to read a shudder conservative blog like Shots to find out about them, since I can no longer post events here.

Take care,

Rich

I don't think anyone should be angry about the change. Its RNeals web page and he can do whatever he wants. Personally, I'm happy that I'll never have to see another #9 post ever again. :)

Strange how the individuals leaning left seem to be trusted, while Les Jones and Mr. Hailey aren't, despite similar membership times. Of course, that must be some horrific accident or they must have previously done something disturbingly off-topic, that I'm not aware of.

Factchecker, the Gun Blogs allow any user to post, and the only threads I've seen deleted are spam. I'm sure there's a point where off-topic or problematic posts would be as well, but I haven't seen it yet. Saysuncle has repeatedly stated that he'd let even the Gun Guys or the Brady Bunch post on the thing if they so choose, and I've actually invited them to do so.

"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." - Douglas Adams

"I hope you don't part ways, Les. The comments are where the debate takes place."

There's no way around it as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to participate as a second-class member.

Like Uncle, I was invited to join and participate here by Randy when he was getting things rolling. I made the first post to Knoxviews. If I'm not welcome to post here then as far as I'm concerned I'm not welcome at all.

"But let me just ask, and this is not meant to be rhetorical: Does anyone know of any conservative blogs with any significant traffic that have a more "liberal" posting policy than this one does now?"

That's not my issue at all. Randy is free to run his blog however he likes, and I'm free to leave if I don't like the way he runs it.

www.lesjones.com

* <--my point     what metulj is usually babbling about--> *

I would understand if that's the case, Les. I hope it's not that way.

...the Gun Blogs allow any user to post, and the only threads I've seen deleted are spam. I'm sure there's a point where off-topic or problematic posts would be as well, but I haven't seen it yet. Saysuncle has repeatedly stated that he'd let even the Gun Guys or the Brady Bunch post on the thing if they so choose...

I wonder how many diatribe posts from the Brady Bunch (had to think about that one to figure what it means) would be tolerated before the policy would be changed. 5? 50? No limit? Has it ever been tested?

OK, one more time out of respect for Uncle and Les who were welcome posters here before and are still welcome to participate in comments.

Uncle posted a silly poll on the front page that was long and took up practically the whole screen. I demoted it but left it published in the side bar. He bitched. I explained. He then went over to his blog and posted complaints about his treatment, bitched about me and the site rules in a mocking tone very similar to #9, etc. He suggested the site really wasn't open at all. I let it go at the time. Before that he had posted a link to an offensive site and I asked him not to do that, and he complained about it, and this was after having previously been asked to tone down the language a little and bitching about that, too. I was fairly taken aback and somewhat disappointed by all this, because SayUncle and I have always gotten along OK and I've tried to be reasonable, respectful, and diplomatic.

Les has some interesting and more mature posts from time to time, but he also likes to cross-post things that he knows are not welcome at this site. Apparently it's not enough that the headline for his post at his blog and his post at Michael Silence both appear in the "Blog-o-Rama" sidebar where anyone who is interested can click on it and read it. One day I demoted something that was not appropriate for the intended purpose and audience of this site and he put it back on the front page, I demoted it again, he put it back, and this went on four or five times. I guess he thought it was cute or fun or something. But I let it go at the time. Then he cross-posted something again this week that I did not feel was appropriate or of interest to readers of this site (a gun post with a crude headline and a link to a site I do not wish to promote). I demoted it. He complained. I explained. He complained some more.

While all this is going on, #9 is going off the deep end about an argument between two other commenters that didn't involve him, complaining about me, the site, the site rules, calling me a hypocrite, etc. etc.

I really hate that Les and Uncle are taking it so personally. I've met both of them, and they are nice folks in person, and they are both interesting bloggers. This is just blog business, and they have theirs and I have mine. I don't tell them how to run theirs, and I would have appreciated the same in return.

As I said in the other explanation, this change has been in the works for a long time. I just don't have the time or interest in explaining things over and over to people who complain about how they are treated or how I run this website. I was almost afraid to look at my own website in the morning for fear of what someone may have posted in the middle of the night in the unrestricted mode the site was working in (and there has been some really crazy, scary stuff). As I also explained in the other thread, there are limitations in the software that do not provide a practical solution for me to deal with it in a timely and efficient manner, and frankly I'm tired of the aggravation. Further, any solution available in the current version of the software would deter respectful, mature posters by delaying their posts until a moderator could approve them, all because of a few isolated problems.

So we decided to take the site in a different direction and more strictly enforce the original "liberal/progressive" intent of the site, and to relieve me of the administrative burden of monitoring people who violate the spirit of that and then want to argue about it, and then have to spend more time posting stupid, lengthy explanations such as this. Uncle actually suggested it. He said the "asterisk should be by 'open'" (suggesting, I suppose, that I should explain "open" similar to how I had to explain "progressive"). He was right. I have now learned that sadly you can't have a truly "open" site on the internet and maintain any purpose or quality or mature conversation.

There are 237 users with blog posting privileges. Most never post to their blog. That number will fluctuate over time. Some will be added, some will be removed. Someday there might be updates or addons to the software that will allow a more streamlined and/or "democratic" process, but for now that's the way it is.

So some people may leave, some people may get mad or get their feelings hurt (the discussion at the thread at SayUncle's place is a pretty good indicator of the level of maturity and the motives of some previous posters here -- it's a Stalinist purge, I'm a liar and a hypocrite, KnoxViews readers are a mindless herd and/or pack of animals, we're class elitists, it's all related to Imus (?) etc. etc., oh, and I just now saw that Uncle is kiddingly but it's not funny suggesting that his readers sabotage this site with a legal time bomb -- nice!), and that's too bad, but that, too, is what it is.

Appreciate the response. But from my point of view, it went like this:

* You asked me to post here. And I did.

* I posted a link to a site that was questionable a bit back. You said knock it off and I did. I don't recall complaining about it other than inquiring about it and asking if it was over the line. So, I didn't do it again.

* And you asked me a bit back to keep the language under control, and I did.

* I noted that if you expect me to keep it under control, you should have the same expectation of others. You agreed. But it continued.

* Then, I post a harmless and, if I do say so myself, pretty funny poll to take up space on a slow day here.

*I inquire about it and you tell me because you want yours up top (it was a well-researched post, btw) because it took a lot of work and you want it read. No problemo.

* I ask why you don't just put it below your posts. and you get all 'it's my site' and 'no one is forcing me to participate' on me.

* I get smart with it at my site because I don't care for the treatment.

* You say take it or leave it. So, I left it.

So, the whole entire incident had absolutely zero to do with your past complaints. If I linked to SABJ day again or something, I'd understand.

I'm not taking it personally. I still respect you and like your blogging. I still think you and The Mrs. are wonderful and charming people. I'll continue to read because I like reading Randy Neal. But I won't participate. As you said, your site and your rules. And if I don't like it, don't play. So, that's that.

And, honestly, I think some of #9's criticism of this decision is a bit over the top. But some of it's pretty damn spot on.

And I'm not trying to sabotage your site at all with a legal time bomb. And I think that accusation is unfounded. Anyone could see I was making a joke about, err, this incident here.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

Bye, Unk. I'll miss you. What are we going to do for strident irrational gun love?

Bye, 9...I'll uh...well, bye, anyway.

'Creek

"One day I demoted something that was not appropriate for the intended purpose and audience of this site and he put it back on the front page, I demoted it again, he put it back, and this went on four or five times."

I had no idea it was you doing it. I figured it was one of the moderators. (And since the moderators aren't clearly identified, I don't even know who they are.) Which brings up a point. Things are done with no explanation. If you had sent me an email note saying you had removed it from the front page and why that would have been the end of it.

I don't think you communicated your feelings on this very well. If you had been more verbal in the past I don't think things would have built up to a head.

"Then he cross-posted something again this week that I did not feel was appropriate or of interest to readers of this site (a gun post with a crude headline and a link to a site I do not wish to promote). I demoted it. He complained. I explained. He complained some more."

Randy, these are the two emails I sent you that you are referring to. Out of respoect I'm not showing your end, but in fairness I should say that it was reasonable and polite, if terse.

Me: "Randy, I'm curious why my post last night got pulled off of the front page. Is it unacceptable on KnoxViews to advocate that women have the right to defend themselves from rape?"

You responded. This is my response to your response: "If the headline is offensive, that's because the idea it's criticizing is offensive. As far as guns, it's about human rights more than guns. And it was cross-posted to one other site, not two.

"It's your joint and your rules and I'll abide by that. It's frustrating for me sometimes, but I imagine it's frustrating for you, too. I'm not wild about it, but I'm not going to kick and scream about it."

So that was the extent of my "complaining."

"I really hate that Les and Uncle are taking it so personally."

I don't know any other way to take it. I realize intentions and outcomes aren't always the same.

You didn't offer an explanation for why Rich Hailey is no longer allowed to post. He's been the one putting together the blogger get togethers and he has been remarkably well behaved.

www.lesjones.com

* <--my point     what metulj is usually babbling about--> *

You didn't offer an explanation for why Rich Hailey is no longer allowed to post.

Yet everyone instinctively gets why #9 is now the Odd Digit Out.

Res ipsa loquitur.

____________________________

Ruining songs with my mitten handed, Magyar guitar play since 1990.

I wonder how many diatribe posts from the Brady Bunch (had to think about that one to figure what it means) would be tolerated before the policy would be changed. 5? 50? No limit? Has it ever been tested?

It hasn't been tested, for the simple reason that gunbloggers actually know their information. The Brady Bunchies website can't even deal with pro-gun factual comments there, nevermind actually risk putting a post where people know the subject and can't be silenced.

I'm not Saysuncle, but I hold a fairly high respect for the man, and I've never seen him even a tenth as hypocritical as such an action would require.

For a slightly less perfect example, RedState does allow liberal viewpoints, although it has had a bad habit of strongly discouraging liberal voices, particularly those who sounds too much like DNC talking voices. Admittedly, my experience with the site is minimal, and I'm just going from their description as a right-wing DailyKos, so they may not be a good example.

As to the "Instapundit doesn't allow comments" concept, that's not really a good metric. Instapundit isn't a blog under the normal mechanic. It's more a link festival or aggregation method, nearly a Carnival of the Carnivals. There'd be no point of having comments there; he only points to newsworthy posts which usually allow commentary.

"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." - Douglas Adams

edit: oh, and now that I remember, Saysuncle has Brutal Hugger -- a fairly cliched lefty -- as a common poster, and doesn't delete his posts even when they have significant flaws.

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the 'Well, the other side doesn't do it' viewpoint. If conservative blogs overwhelmingly threw puppies into blenders, that wouldn't be a good reason for you all to do so; if conservative blogs didn't take RSS feeds, that wouldn't be a good reason for you all to avoid them.

Mr. Site Owner's management difficulties complaints are several times stronger.

"The world isn't beautiful, and that lends it a certain sort of beauty." - Kino's Journey

There's a difference : Saysuncle is a story collector and fact-checker, while Instapundit is merely a link collector. There's also very little benefit to a story merely by making it long. A short, to-the-point post is often preferable compared to a long-winded one for news stories. As is the opposite, I will admit, but long isn't an inherent advantage in writing.

I also wouldn't say that Instapundit lacks good things to say. His legal posts and writings for other sites are fairly complex, although I think he allows his libertarian leanings to get in the way of facts sometimes. But it actually takes some degree of skill to collect and distribute said information, as well as a certain degree of 'hunches' as to the veracity of stories. I believe he does podcast interviews as well, although I personally haven't listened to any.

To give the networking viewpoint, the ICANN servers do very little original work, merely collecting and analyzing data from the DNS servers and accredited applications. But you wouldn't call them anything but great -- their technology allows you to reliably find a specific bit of data while sifting through terabytes upon terabytes of information.

"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." - Douglas Adams

Les, I'm not sure whether that was a compliment or an insult...*grin*

What's so remarkable about being polite and following the dictates of the man in charge?

Now, being demoted while following those dictates is a little bit remarkable, but it's not a big deal. This is R. Neal's place and he gets to run it as he sees fit. Blogs, even group blogs like this one, are absolute monarchies,not democracies. R. Neal does the work and pays the bills so he gets to make the decisions. As long as he checks with Mrs. Neal first.

R. Neal has left the door open for those without Trusted User status to gain it by submitting proposed posts to him for review. I thought about going this route, but decided against it.

I've created 14 posts or events. Of those, 8 concerned BlogFests, 2 concerned donating to the East Tennessee Children's Hospital, 1 congratulated Katie Allison Granju on her Emmy nomination (something R. Neal thanked me for bringing to his attention), 1 made fun of the Tennessee legislature for proposing to track all drivers by GPS and taxing them based on miles traveled.

Even though I have followed the rules at all times, my posting status was still pulled. It should be clear to anyone who reads those posts that the change was based not on my conduct or the content of my posts, but on my ideological leanings. Like I said earlier, that's R. Neal's call to make; he owns the place. But there's no sense in my submitting posts in order to try and regain Trusted User status when all my posts to date would seem to justify retaining that status.

Now then, for the real reason I came back to this thread. The next BlogFest is set for Saturday, April 21. We're going to meet early, at around 3PM for a little laser tag at Laser Quest, then head over for some dinner at Calhoun's at Pellisippi (same place as last time.) Drop me an email if you're coming so I can get a head count for both places. And I'm going to try and reserve the upstairs room at Calhoun's so we won't be in everybody's way again.

Somebody with posting privileges, please feel free to create an event so everybody will know what's going on.

(Why am I not surprised to see Les and Uncle back here, after they both supposedly left in a huff earlier today...?)

And why am I not surprised to see a few rather high-profile right-leaning individuals trying to argue that the site rules somehow don't include phrases worded every way from Sunday that this is a site intended primarily for lefty-oriented discussion..? Or that well, the rules do say this, but there should be exceptions for this and this and this...

An argument claiming a rightward leaning site administrator would have allowed the kind of talk that took place around here last fall, had the shoe been on the other foot, simply begs sanity.

Frankly, I can't believe Randy's taking any kind of smack about this at all. And yet, here it is. Surprise, surprise.

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the 'Well, the other side doesn't do it' viewpoint.

It's all relative. What are the "rules" on the innertubes? Well, one can look around and see what the norm is, what's working or not working elsewhere. (You know, kind of let the free market decide, heh.) It just seems that if people didn't mind a certain set of rules on one side of the fence, they wouldn't have cause to complain about those same rules on the other side of the fence.

If conservative blogs overwhelmingly threw puppies into blenders, that wouldn't be a good reason for you all to do so; if conservative blogs didn't take RSS feeds, that wouldn't be a good reason for you all to avoid them.

If Al Gore's Bell Meade home uses a lot of utilities, would it prove that global warming does not exist or be a good reason not to change anyone's behavior to reduce greenhouse gases?

"(Why am I not surprised to see Les and Uncle back here, after they both supposedly left in a huff earlier today...?)"

Ah, Eleanor A. Always the sweet flower of KnoxViews.

I wanted to say my peace and let my side of the story be known. Having accomplished that, I'm done.

And I'm not leaving in a huff. I'm leaving in a cab. I already called the cab. I'll be here in a minute and a huff.

Sorry, Groucho. See y'all.

www.lesjones.com

* <--my point     what metulj is usually babbling about--> *

Maybe it's made of Blue Steel.

____________________________

Ruining songs with my mitten handed, Magyar guitar play since 1990.

I say don't let Les come back until he does something about that avatar...

I grew up in South Bend, Ind. It's a town about half the size of Knoxville, a couple hours east of Chicago. One of the beautiful things about South Bend is that it has a number of highly competitive downtown basketball courts. These courts are not for the faint of heart. If you've got game and can compete, you earn respect. If you don't like the stiff competition, or elbows, then you step aside.

I'm stunned, personally, that those who purport to be individualists, who claim to be tough guys, who say they are secure in their convictions and beliefs, that they would just turn tail and run because RNeal bumped their posts off the front page. I mean, come on.

So you all really are going to take your ball and go home? Really?

I posted a something last night calling this blog an echo chamber and what do you know, it was taken down. Ok then.

Jeeze, last Tuesday morning I went into the hospital for a colon resection and, today when I get home and catch up on KnoxViews, I find that I have also had a ninectomy.

The Hill Online

...I went into the hospital for a colon resection and, today when I get home and catch up on KnoxViews, I find that I have also had a ninectomy.

One of your operations was more painless than the other. Hope your recovery from both goes smoothly.

Steve

Thanks, Steve

I was very fortunate. The surgeon that did the work did it in such a way that I required very little pain medication afterward. The polyp was benign and my recovery is going very well. Now I'm on a soap box yelling at all my old fart friends (was that insensitive) to get those colonoscopies they've been putting off.

I have also been raving about the people at Ft. Sanders Regional who cared for me during my hospital stay. There was not one of them that was less that wonderful.

As to the ninectomy, I always felt that he was relatively benign although a thick headed embarrassment for Randy's class establishment.

The Hill Online

Now I'm on a soap box yelling at all my old fart friends...

Yes, changes are coming to Knoxviews. I am assuming that if one constantly posts hateful material ID-ing one as some
kind of toasty-headed wingnut, one may be deleted. I guess that this site is becoming more user friendly to kind and
thoughtful political and/or social discourse. I realize that "Say Uncle" is a "whine site" for so-called conservative types. Then, kind folks and gentle people, if you fall under that persuasion, post on that site.

That being said...
I am sort of a maverick and fit in neither category. However, I think that either Hillary, Edwards or Richardson are the folks who have a chance at the Democratic nomination. The five others may continue to fight it out in the democratic party.

My favorite candidate in the republican aisle is the Senator from Arizona. He's a moderate republican and is a fellow maverick and I admire his guts. Unfortunately, he allowed himself to be a Dubya puppet in the last election... It's early to tell anything about an election eighteen months hence.