Thu
Sep 21 2006
01:28 pm
By: Socialist With ...

Today is the International Day Of Peace, established by the UN in 1981. On this day of peace, we learn that torture in Iraq is now worse than it was under Saddam.

Happy Peace Day.

Topics:
Tman's picture

Well, at least the BBC is objective about it...

"Mr Nowak said he would like to visit Iraq in person, but the current situation would not allow him to prepare an accurate report, because it would not be safe to leave Baghdad's heavily guarded Green Zone where the Iraqi government and US leadership are situated. "

But don't let that stop from stating categorically that "torture in Iraq is now worse than it was under Saddam".

Wouldn't want facts to get in the way of a chance to somehow say Iraq was better off under Saddam.

Tman's picture

Go ahead, say it...

You know you want to..

Once more, with feeling-

"The Iraqi people was better off with Saddam still in power".

Socialist With A Gold Card's picture

Better yet, let's see what

Better yet, let's see what the Iraqi people themselves think. According to this poll taken in June 2006 (look on pages 44-45 of the PDF), only 41% of the population thinks the country is headed in the right direction. Of those, only 13% said it was headed in the right direction because of the removal of the former regime. Thirteen percent of 41% is 5.33%.

In other words, only 5.33% of Iraqis think that the country is headed in the right direction because Saddam is no longer in power.

--Socialist With A Gold Card


"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." --Brett Butler

 

Tman's picture

I can't let such a horrible typo stand.

Sorry-

Let me try that again-

"The Iraqi people WERE better off with Saddam still in power".

Tman's picture

I ask both of you.

Do you think that The Iraqi people were better off with Saddam still in power?

I'm not asking what the poll says. I'm asking what you think.

Socialist With A Gold Card's picture

Better off? You think

Better off? You think they're better off with somewhere between 43,000 and 48,000 civilians killed due directly to our little adventure in Mesopotamia? Or do you think they're better off with the country already engaged in a low-level civil war that verges on a full-scale one, again due directly to our intervention? Or do you think they're better off with only 11 hours of electricity per day?

If you think that's "better off," then you have some pretty strange standards.

Of course Saddam was a bad guy, just like most of the rulers in the Middle East, and I hope the sumbitch is executed. The Iraqis might become better off in a few decades, but it sure as hell won't be because of our presence in their country.

On the other hand, they do seem to have learned some pretty creative new torture techniques. Maybe those goons at Abu Ghraib did manage to teach the Iraqis some new and useful job skills after all.

--Socialist With A Gold Card


"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." --Brett Butler

 

Brian A.'s picture

Torture

Don't forget the U.N. expert who says there's as much torture going on in Iraq now as under Saddam. 

But hey, if you're an Iraqi who doesn't get tortured or killed, and you land a job with an American contractor, you'll probably be better off than you were five years ago. 

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Sven's picture

"I always knew the Americans

"I always knew the Americans would bring electricity back to Baghdad. I just never thought they'd be shooting it up my ass."

        —Young Iraqi translator, Baghdad, November 2003

 

Andy Axel's picture

The Coalition of the Willing

The Coalition of the Willing -- "Proudly creating a civilian toll which would make gassing your own people redundant!"

____________________________

On tops of mountains, as everywhere to hopeful souls, it is always morning. --H. Thoreau

Tman's picture

No One?

Nobody has an answer?

Tman's picture

So that's a yes?

"Of course Saddam was a bad guy,"

Yep, but hey, the trains ran on time, right?

So he gassed a few villages, what's the big deal?

So what that his sons raped whomever they wanted at random, and killed those who resisted? It's not like they were forced to stand on a box with a sack over their heads.

So what if Human Rights organizations say at a minimum Saddam was responsible for the deaths of half a million Iraqi people, while ruling over the rest of Iraq with a Stalin like visegrip of terror?

I mean really. The Iraqis would have eventually removed him, someday. I'm sure of it.

So what you're saying is that he wasn't worse than what they have now.

Wow.

I suppose you think Cuba has better health care than we in the US do too.

Thanks for confirming what I thought.

"Socialist with a gold card" indeed.

Socialist With A Gold Card's picture

You conveniently omitted the

You conveniently omitted the rest of my sentence, in which I said I hope he gets the death penalty. I didn't say he's no worse than what they have now, I said torture is more common now than it was under Saddam. Read carefully, please, and do not make the mistake of attributing words to me which I did not write.

Saddam was responsible for the deaths of half a million Iraqi people, while ruling over the rest of Iraq with a Stalin like visegrip of terror

That's true, and the US (specifically, the Reagan administration) supported him while he did it. The Reaganites helped him murder those people. 

And, as a matter of fact, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the US, and its overall life expectancy ranks just seven countries lower than ours. Draw your own conclusions.

--Socialist With A Gold Card


"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." --Brett Butler

 

Sven's picture

Nobody has an

Nobody has an answer?

I'm picturing a Barney Fife character who's just burned down an apartment building in response to a domestic abuse complaint.

"What? Are you trying to tell me she was better off living with that guy? Don't you have any conscience?"

bizgrrl's picture

Do you think that The Iraqi

Do you think that The Iraqi people were better off with Saddam still in power?

I'm not asking what the poll says. I'm asking what you think.

This is such a lame, right-wing conservative method for justifying the Iraq war and defending Prez Bush.

This would be like asking us right now if Cuba would be better off if we attacked them and captured Castro. How the hell would we know?

How the hell would the majority of people here know if the Iraqi people are better off without consulting the Iraqi people (via poll or whatever)?

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