Edwards can't go nationwide.
Why not?

Rephrase: Edwards isn't competitive nationwide.

____________________________

I'm a guy in a Reagan mask -- and I'm running for President!

Ark tho elected Republican Winthrop Rockefeller in the'60s.
I know it was a anti Faubus vote but my question is...was the Republican party,in Ark,in the '60s more liberal than the Dixiecrats?

Ok, first, I lived there from 83-04, so everything I'm telling you about late 50s/early 60s is what I learned in playing political reporter there in the 80s and 90s -- when by the way, Faubus tried his best to get eleected again. Boy was that bizarr-o. Race baiting yet again.

No, the Republican party wasn't that liberal, far from Dixicrats. They were weak and weaker. Faubus was governor until '67. If my memory serves me correctly, he named Win Rockefeller to the Economic Development Commission because of the perception that his name would draw businesses to the state. It did, but things were messed up by Central High. In the early 60s, Rockefeller was putting his own money into economic development. He ran against Faubus in 64 and lost because Faubus campaigned about studying by lamplight while the Rockefellers were an oil monopoly.

So the next two years, Rockefeller used his money to uncover the unlimited graph in Faubus's administration. Faubus lost to Justic Jim Johnson, even more racist than Faubus, in the primary, and Rockefeller won the general election handily. Rockefeller served two two-year terms, cleaning up state government, especially the prisons (remember Brubaker the movie), he commuted death sentences to life without parole, established his own Rockefeller Foundation that is dedicated to Arkansas only.

He had also established Winrock Farms, which was taken over by his son, Win Paul -- who later became lt gov and would probably be gov now except he was visited by an extremely aggressive form of deadly leukemia. Like his father, Win Paul was a social moderate and had done a great deal on his on for economic development so I think he could have been elected. Instead, after the pain of Huckabee, Arkansans elected a moderate Democrat.

Pam Strickland

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut

Unlike most southern states Tn,Va & Fla had mainline GOP strongholds..not to keen on Goldwater,Nelson Rockefeller or Reagan.These voters liked Nixon.

In NC,SC,Ga,La,Miss,Ala the GOP was nothing until Goldwater'64.

Tex for some reason had a strong conservative GOP & LBJ kept it's electorial votes Democrat in the '60s.Carter won by a nose in '76.

Also,in '76,Carter won every southern state but Va.& that turned out to be just a bump in the road for the GOP southern take over.

Ark tho elected Republican Winthrop Rockefeller in the'60s.
I know it was a anti Faubus vote but my question is...was the Republican party,in Ark,in the '60s more liberal than the Dixiecrats?

Faubus..always put him up there with Wallace..race baiting to stay in office.Little Rock Central deal always struck me the same as Wallace standing in the school house door.

Actually, Faubus was worse than Wallace. My flip remark was meant to be an insult to Huckabee, the Baptist minister turned politician who came in second in the Iowa strawpoll the other day. The boy is a sleeze, much more so than that other man from a place called Hope, Arkansas.

Pam Strickland

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut

Faubus..always put him up there with Wallace..race baiting to stay in office.Little Rock Central deal always struck me the same as Wallace standing in the school house door.

Carole..are you saying savvy women call other women bimbos?

I guess I'm just troubled that these two are the best we've got?

I think we all are, but look at who THEY (ain't) got. What a sorry bunch over there, though of course we're always handicapped due to the Rove/Mighty Wurlitzer/Swiftboat effect, so we can't take anything for granted. As lame as he is, I think Fred might be the most electable they have (popular with the sheeple majority who don't follow what's going on). He's a Star with a Big Authoritative voice.

In spite of his weak showing, McCain might just come from behind.

I don't think so. He's W's poster boy on Iraq. Certainly the others' scandals won't get that big, but we can always hope!

Obama's organization has demonstrated the ability to raise money, to raise their candidate's profile, and to keep people talking about him in favorable terms.

Big time. That's impressive.

Not to flog the same thing about Gore too much again, but I think the best example of what made me cringe about him as a candidate was when he'd put that gravelly southern preacher voice on and yell "Ah'll ahlways fight for YOOOOUU!!!" Please don't ever do that again, Al, should you decide to get in. Would I vote for him in the primary? I'd have to check the polls. Whoever can best get us back in the WH.

Except Carter and Clinton had both been governors. (Two term governors?)

Clinton served from 78-80, then from 82-92 (he resigned in Dec. before moving to the White House). He was elected five times as governor of Arkansas. The first four terms were two years and there were no term limites. The last election was to a four-year term that he did not complete. Under the four-year terms, a person can only be elected twice.

Mike Huckabee first became gov of Arkansas because he was elected to replace the lt. gov, Jim Guy Tucker, who became gov when Clinton left. Tucker subsequently was sucked into Whitewater, and was forced to resign with Huckabee moving up. Huckabee was subsequently elected twice as gov.

Neither of them managed to serve as long as Faubus, and I'd probably say that Faubus was a better gov than Huckabee, but that's almost an insult to Faubus.

Pam Strickland

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut

Gore was pretty much one until the election was stolen.

There's not enough hard evidence to know if Obama is as liberal as he talks. Once he's in office and confronted with the reality of machine politics and stubborn opposition he might cave in faster to right wing pressure than anyone could imagine. He did after all make that statement about invading Pakistan. He is trying to clarify it now, but it does not bode well in regards to his ability to be a peacemaker rather than a terrorist-maker.

When I try to remember why I wasn't very happy with Clinton, I have trouble remembering.

Since he's been out of office I have been appalled to see him being all cozy with GW senior.

So he reduced the military? I think there was plenty of reason to do this & it helped pay down the debt. He was wishy washy about gays in the military. I didn't like his be-it-but-don't-tell-anyone policy. Personally, I'd like a candidate that is strong on equal rights for gays-- including the right to marry, inherit property, and have some input on medical matters.

I've always felt Hillary's being First Spouse might have been more meaningful and instructive than usual. Her and Bill have always been politcal. I can't imagine her not having been very involved in all of his political business.

The Monica mess was revolting I admit, but it was made more so because of the public spotlight, and the Republican hearings are what really brought him down.

Whitewater wasn't enough to make me totally turned off either.

Clinton seems to be gaining with the average woman voter (not the savvy ones necessarily). I haven't heard anyone knock her as a politican. Quite the opposite. She seems admired for her knowledge of politics--thus an insider.

So come on guys, remind me why the Clinton era was a such a total disastor?

I think Clinton would mop up the floor with either Guiliani or Romney opposing her. I even suspect somehow those two will self-destruct long before the election.

Fred? His being coy has I think damaged his chances, if he had any. Having his bimbo wife helping him form national and international policy sounds like a nightmare in the making.

The ranks of the conservatives have thinned this time around and the power they wield has diminished significantly since Bush became the poster boy for the causes they represented.

I think whoever gets the Republican nomination this time will have to move way left. The word "conservative" is beginning to sound almost as bad as the word "liberal" did.

Being overly Jesus aligned may also have lost some of its charm, as everyone knows the radical wingnuts in the Christian camp have been a total embarassment and an impediment to living in this century.

In spite of his weak showing, McCain might just come from behind. Once the heat of the campaign is focused on G & R, the scandals and revealations will start shooting up into the sky like fireworks.

McCain might be the only man left standing.

To all of you folks who picked Obama, can you explain the attraction?

Well, Hillary is out for me in the primary on anti-dynastic grounds. Also, as polished as she has been in the "debates", I don't think she has what we need going forward to heal the country from Bush. She's too conservative a pol (and I don't just mean in her policy positions), particularly this year. (And, yes, Carole, I'm a woman, but I won't be voting for Hillary unless I have to in the general.)

I like many of Edward's policy positions, at least his economic policies. But there is something about the man that just turns me off. He seems shallow, I think. But I don't know why I react that way to him, because I'm not sure that's a fair cop. But there you are.

Obama has an innate ability to inspire. He's more liberal than Hillary. He's obviously learning fast. He's been much closer to my views on foreign policy, and I think could make progress on repairing our foreign relations just by being elected. There isn't anyone else in the race that has that quality. My main problem with him so far has been his health care plan, but I suspect he could be lead on that front, especially if we have a real sea change in Congress in '08.

I didn't think we were arguing.

You go to primary with the candidates you have, not the candidates you wish you had.

Classic!

Hey, I'm not suggesting Hillary is the best candidate by any means. I'm just not sure Obama is either.

Exactly. You go to primary with the candidates you have, not the candidates you wish you had.

Apropos of Gore, of course. I think at Maison d'Axel, it's "Katie bar the door" should Al jump in the fray.

Sorry if that sounds like I'm arguing with you - I'm more arguing with my conscience. (I still had planned on pulling the lever for Dean when I went into the ballot box in 2004, and wound up punching the chad for Kerry. Shows what I know, right?)

____________________________

I'm a guy in a Reagan mask -- and I'm running for President!

state senate;2 terms..elected in '62 & '64
served '63-'67

also served on the school board before being elected to the state senate.

ran for '66 democratic nomination for governor;lost

in ga..term limits only allowed one..elected in '70
served '71-'75

its why maddox ran for lt governor in '70
He won

Except Carter and Clinton had both been governors. (Two term governors?)

>To all of you folks who picked Obama, can you explain the attraction?

I may be rationalizing, and this may be an anti-Hillary gag reflex kicking in, and ask me tomorrow and my mind may change.

But...

(a) Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, and Richardson are also-rans already.

(b) Gravel? Please.

(c) Edwards can't go nationwide.

(d) I don't care what the polls say - when primary play-time is over, a Clinton nomination cedes 10-20 points to the Republican nominee TBD. Her negatives run dangerously close to the red line on a good day.

Obama's organization has demonstrated the ability to raise money, to raise their candidate's profile, and to keep people talking about him in favorable terms. Yes, there's that experience thing. I don't know how much that works in Democrats favor, though. Kennedy, Carter, and Clinton were all pretty raw when they came to the fore.

____________________________

I'm a guy in a Reagan mask -- and I'm running for President!

To all of you folks who picked Obama, can you explain the attraction?

I think I voted Obama here, though it's a weak vote. What little I've actually heard Hillary say at the Dem debates has been better than what I've heard from Obama. But Obama does have charisma. The guy looks/speaks like an inspiring leader. We really could use that, and I don't see anyone who comes close there. He seems incredibly bright with the ability to think quickly on his feet and be pragmatic too. I want to like his personality and from what (little) I know about the man, I do like him.

From a political (electability) perspective there IS SOME political baggage that Hillary carries (let's be realistic). Obama has more of a clean sheet and I think his likability and multicultural background will be good with the all important swing voters. He is a little inexperienced, but also knows he needs to strike within the momentum of his political rise. Waiting too long will expose him to the career/beltway politician tag. Biden and Dodd have that political handicap, as did Kerry. The effect was probably not great when it was used against Gore, but it was another tiny intangible that could have swung 2000 away from the Bush Family Supreme Court.

I would vote for Bill Richardson.

Polls are closed, save a half pint for the poll workers.

To all of you folks who picked Obama, can you explain the attraction?

Obama's ahead...but I'm runnin outa half pints!!

...it seems there are still plenty of Dems that are intent on handing victory to the Right.

Voting for our preferred Dem candidate = handing victory to the right? Who would be immune from being Murdoched? Or even more immune than the others? The right has just targeted Hillary longer for all the stereotypical reasons and because they fear her so badly. Otherwise why would they bother? And what about Obama? I don't think the race card would fly against him.

And whom do you favor?

With Clinton and Obama getting so many votes, it seems there are still plenty of Dems that are intent on handing victory to the Right.

Very, very sad.
Keep drinking that Mass Media kool aid, folks. They love y'all in Rupert Murdoch land.

(Shaking my head in amazement)

"The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open."