Mon
Apr 16 2007
11:37 am

Sandra Clark rips the new plan, and offers sympathy for the guy who keeps getting stuck with damage control. Plus, from Gossip and Lies: "Halls High was virtually unscathed by the school rezoning plan with only four students rezoned to Central. An unidentified teacher said he/she wants to pick which four."

While you're over there, check out the Beanster's column on the storm water ordinance. Yet another huge fiasco a long time in the making.

rikki's picture

inspection drought

I just turned in a cover story on the stormwater ordinance and water quality in Knox Co for this week's Metro Pulse. After reading Betty's piece, I'd just like to say that if enforcing the new ordinance will require 65 new hires, enforcing the old one must have left county engineering understaffed by at least 90 people.

Bbeanster's picture

Rikki, Schoonmaker's not

Rikki, Schoonmaker's not saying they'll have to hire 65 new employees -- he's saying they'll need 65 employees, which will be slightly more than double the numer they have now.

The big unspoken here is how it will be funded.

Is the county going to goout and measure each parcel's impervious surfaces (roofs and driveways and parking lots), and assess them a fee?

Does this mean that home and business owners are going to be taxed to support the county's anything-goes growth philosophy?

rikki's picture

OK, if the new ordinance

OK, if the new ordinance requires doubling the enforcement staff, the old ordinance must have required tripling the enforcement staff.

If a tax hike or a new tax is needed to pay for the ordinance, it's only because the county refuses to assess and collect fines. Implicit in discussions about the enforcement burden is an assumption -- historically proven -- that developers will not comply with clean water laws. If their lawlessness results in a broad tax assessment against the general public, the public has their willingness to elect developers and their allies to county offices to blame.

lotta's picture

Ordiance or Stormwater Utility?

As I understand it, it's not the new ordinance that requires the fee. The stormwater utility will charge a fee and it looks like it could be based on impervious surface. There are other ways to generate income to support the stormwater utility (and the new hires) - one of them being fines for developers out of compliance.

Bbeanster's picture

Enforcement is what requires

Enforcement is what requires the fee. what good is an ordinance that won't be enforced? (I know, that's a trick question, since we got plenty of those already)

The burden will fall on property owners outside the city limits, probably based on impervious surfaces.

This means homeowners will be taxed to pay for problems exacerbated by development run amok.

And actually, the school rezoning issue is not unrelated to development runamokism.

Fining non-complying developers is a very good idea. I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

rikki's picture

another environmentalist out to destroy the economy

what good is an ordinance that won't be enforced?

Not much, but "good" is such a high standard! The better thing about this ordinance is that it rewards developers who work with their brains before their bulldozers. The old ordinance was so rigid it required the same size detention pond whether you stripped and levelled the lot or kept half the trees, buffered natural channels and built small footprints. Now developers can reduce or eliminate detention ponds from their sites with good site planning. Of course, it's strictly voluntary.

And it often costs less.
And the house sells for more.

Speaking of which, there are several covenants and easements defined in the ordinance, and you can fund the thing by reducing or eliminating property taxes on stormwater covenants and easements and buffers, just as if they were conservation easements. The county could incentivize voluntary stream restoration projects by rewarding the landowner with a conservation easement on the restored parcel.

lotta's picture

Another optimist destroys the environment

The better thing about this ordinance is that it rewards developers who work with their brains before their bulldozers.

Developers work with their wallets. They aren't convinced this new ordiance will save or make money. Someone will have to show success before others jump into this "voluntary" site planning. How will we train the contractors the inspectors on this new and voluntary approach to development and how much will it cost? What will make us more effective at enforcement if we can't enforce the old, rigid, less complex ordinance?

I agree that there are better ways but I'm also familiar with reality in the field. I hope you are right and I hope you have the numbers to back up the "often costs less" and "sells for more" statement. The developers will need convincing and they are NOT used to being held to much of a standard in this county.

rikki's picture

You have 60 acres you want

You have 60 acres you want to subdivide.

Cost of not clearing the 25' on either side of stream channels: $0

Cost of not clearing 5 fringe acres that you run a woodland path through: $1000 for the path? Built for nothing by the homeowner's assoc?

Cost of not building the detention pond you don't need because you've retained all those trees: $0

No property taxes on exempted easement acreage: priceless

lotta's picture

You don't have 60 acres but say

You have 60 acres you want to subdivide.

You like doing things they way you always have and you see no reason to change. Why should you give up square footage for fringe when you can put a house on it and make more $$$?

Cost of local politician: negotiable depending on your relationship with said politician - helps if you went to school/church together

Cost of learning new development practices: don't care because you don't haveta & besides, you have the HB association to fix any problems you might have with the "little people" that get in the way

Cost of destroying the landscape for profit : priceless

MJ's picture

On the rezoning issue...

All the stories and all the complaints seem to be a lot of woulda, shoulda, couldas. The school is being built where it's being built, there's simply no going back now. All the fuss is worthless, there are never any gaurantees you will always be zoned for a certain school because of your address, is this not common sense? I actually applaud the county for the balancing they did over several school zones, hopefully they have some balls and stick with the plan knowing full well they will never please everyone.

I entered a brand new high school my junior year in Florida and it was a great expereince. They did not transfer seniors, so we were the oldest class in the school for 2 straight years and helped form traditions and events within the early years of the school. Sure, our football team sucked, but some of our sports teams (golf, soccer and tennis) actually did well our senior year in one of the larger counties in Florida. Parents and students should be excited to attend the new school, yet the press only seems to be reporting the negatives associated with this. Shame on all of them.

This story in the KNS is an excellent example of the shoddy reporting in respect to the new high school. It states in the beginning that the subject bought their house 2 months ago and they are now upset because they aren't currently zoned for Farragut....2 months ago? If they really meant to erase all doubt with their move they should have waited until the zoning came through until they bought.

Where are the people excited about the new school? There should be plenty, that's the story I want to read about. The local press has failed across the board with this new high school and the victims are all the kids being zoned for that school.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Pay attention

MJ: "All the fuss is worthless, there are never any gaurantees you will always be zoned for a certain school because of your address, is this not common sense? I actually applaud the county for the balancing they did over several school zones, hopefully they have some balls and stick with the plan knowing full well they will never please everyone."

MJ, hold your applause. This precedent-setting notion of a *systemwide* rezoning for KCS, promoted to us as an efficiency measure, would shuffle student populations in schools that are neither overcrowded nor underutilized, would thrust several populations into high-growth west Knox County, and would mask multiple errors in facilities planning on the part of KCS. I believe I've covered already the disasterous effect it would have on existing school communities.

Central High and Powell High, for instance, are two school populations fully utilizing, but not overcrowding, their facilities. Both school populations are projected to decline per the MPC's so-called PEFA study. Why would you "applaud" disrupting those school commumities?

These two school populations are also among several slated to be thrust westward, into zones that same MPC study predicts will grow by nearly 30% over the next ten years, *without imports*. Does it make sense to you to move these school populations, and in the absence of any impetus, from negative-growth into high-growth areas?

Most relevant, this systemwide shuffle masks three large planning failures on the part of the school board: 1)the HVHS was poorly located (and too little consideration was given to which school populations might attend it), 2) the addition at Karns High was not needed at the point it was built, and 3) far too much $$$ has been thrown at A-E with too little attention given to whether that $$$ produced academic results, or even adequate enrollment numbers. Thus the circuitous "round robin" zoning recommendation for all.

At a time when our debt service on capital spending has reached nearly double our income stream provided through the local option sales tax ($20 million in debt service costs compared to $11 million in revenues earmarked by statute for building, in 2006-07), should the school system continue on this willy-nilly capital spending course?

Unless the circumstances driving this systemwide rezoning recommendation are corrected, our approval of the plan would send the message that we are content to see unbridled west-end development and too little attention to central city issues drive our school system's capital plan decision-making. It would also send the message that we don't value community, either. Finally, it would successfully deflect our attention from other, genuine, efficiency measures that need the school system's attention, like that cluster of five elementary schools serving just 100 or 200 students each, in a three-mile radius of South Knoxville. Now, consolidating some or all of those is truly an "efficiency measure" the school system should undertake, per the counsel of multiple high-dollar facilities audits the school board has sought.

Don't you think that those South Knox students should be asked to walk or drive another half-mile, before school communities countywide are disrupted, and some students asked to drive 8 or 10 miles further? Have you been duped, too?

Yes, I'll agree with you that the N-S reporting to date has missed these larger issues. They have yet to ask what circumstances are driving a proposed systemwide rezoning, and they desparately need to.

MJ's picture

Tamara, You may have missed

Tamara,

You may have missed an underlying point to my message. A simple shifting of school zones without a new high school may have done the trick as well, but the school is already almost complete. There is no going back now, if you know where the reset button is please feel free to hit it. Maybe while they're in re-zoning mode and set to piss off a good number of parents anyway they go ahead and figuratively rip off the band-aid and re-zone across the board, elementary, middle and high? As the population shifts I think the County should utilize to the fullest what resources are currently available before dipping into taxpayer dollars for more construction. If the current zoning doesn't account for future growth than it needs to be altered, that is not my area of experitse nor do I have the numbers to know where the growth will be or is, if you know otherwise make your argument to the county and you have my support.

And I just don't understand the community destruction argument. As I said, I experienced a school switch my junior year to a new high school. It was hardly destructive to either my community or family, in fact it was the opposite. I truly believe in a year or so we may all wonder what all the fuss was about. A change can be a good thing, especially when it doesn't affect any incoming seniors. I would not even be surprised that the HVHS, that nobody seems to want to be zoned for right now, may end up being seen as a better school than Farragut in the future considering the Oak Ridge Technology corridor the majority of their zone encompasses.

DAVID's picture

MJ

The new High School was not built to re-zone the whole KCS just help in the overcrowding of the West Knox County High Schools such as Farragut and Karns.

Up Goose Creek's picture

impervious surfaces

It wouldn't be too difficicult to calculate impervious surfaces from the plan. It's actually fairly easy with an autocad program.

___________________________________
Less is the new More - Karrie Jacobs

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Farragut won't play

MJ: "A simple shifting of school zones without a new high school may have done the trick as well..."

MJ, with 6038 students among the three adjacent high schools this school year, and with west Knox County growth projected at 30%, I don't doubt that a new high school is needed in their immediate area to serve the Bearden, Karns, and Farragut school communities. Their schools are fully utilized, their need in their area is real, and that shouldn't impact the rest of us. Hang with me, here...

The "trick" is to populate what will become two overbuilt, west-lying facilities, namely HVHS and Karns High, if Farragut is allowed to contribute virtually nothing to the effort, and let's not be "tricked" into thinking otherwise!

The fact is, KCS is building HVHS to relieve overcrowding at these three high schools, especially Farragut High, so lets make Farragut High offer up more than 264 students, since failing to do so leaves their projected enrollment at 2400 again in ten years.

The fact is, I was at SB and CC meetings both, in '04, arguing *against* KCS building an addition at Karns High concurrent with building HVHS (for God's sake don't make me the one to move into it), so let's leave Karns High standing half-empty as a testament to their lousy sense of timing, until it is needed.

The fact is, KCS will likely need to shift any students "imported" from uncrowded facilities in east-lying areas to Karns High now, right back to their origins later, when Karns High fills up as projected, so lets leave these the heck alone, rather than shifting them twice.

The fact is, this school year's PEFA study, on which KCS presumably relies, indicates that seven other high schools are expected to see slight *declines* in their student populations, so let's leave them the heck alone, too, and address increases at Gibbs and Halls only at the time they're needed.

The fact is, among high schools expected to see a slight *decline* in their student populations, underutilization at A-E and Fulton has nothing to do with facility sizes and everything to do with drop-out rates of 38% and 45% respectively, so lets focus attention on curriculum and parent involvement there, not student-shuffling, and let's acknowledge that the only half-empty facilities on the horizon may lie west, not anywhere else (check utilization rates at Karns High *after* systemwide rezoning).

MJ: "...but the school is already almost complete. There is no going back now..."

So fill it with the students it was intended to serve.

MJ: "As the population shifts I think the County should utilize to the fullest what resources are currently available before dipping into taxpayer dollars for more construction."

I believe you're still thinking of this proposed systemwide rezoning as an attempt to relieve overcrowding and/or underutilization countywide, but I've addressed those points school-by-school, above.

Meanwhile, we planted "Welcome to Powell" signs on Clinton Highway at Callahan Drive, where our community begins. Should we have placed a wheeled marquee there, instead?

MJ: "If the current zoning doesn't account for future growth than it needs to be altered."

It's the proposed rezoning that doesn't account for future growth, shuffling all of Knox County in a circle, setting up Powell and Central students for a return to their original schools, and leaving Farragut High set to reach 2400 students again too soon, all because they won't play.

And what *are* we to do about those 38% and 45% drop out rates at A-E and Fulton? Would dispersing those students really correct that problem, or even mask it?

Clearly, this "plan" has been proposed too hasitily.

(P.S.--I can't explain the value of preserving community any more fully than I already have.)

Pamela Treacy's picture

Two Schools

Tamara,

You probably know more about this than me, but I was told that a new west high school has been underdiscussion for 20 years. It was suggested that the need was for a school south of interstate 40 to be completed before 2004, as the high school for West Valley Middle. Then another school was needed in Hardin Valley by 2010.

So how does this all work?

It seems to me if community schools are important, what we have today with Hardin Valley doesn't work to solve the problem for overcrowding south of interstate 40?

As you don't want to leave your community in Powell, people in Farragut don't want to leave their community. Farragut is two areas -- the Town of Farragut and the surrounding area.

So it seems everyone loses which means no one wins. Let's start talking solutions. We must line up the feeder schools and define communtiites. Are we willing to bring dollars to the table to build additions to existing schools to accomadate the growth? There have been other threads that high schools shouldn't get that big. Who's decision should that be -- each community or the school board.

Rezoning at this magnitude is only the sign of poor long range planning. Even after this rezoning, we need to deal with the future educational planning for this county.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

'scuse me?

PT: "It seems to me if community schools are important, what we have today with Hardin Valley doesn't work to solve the problem for overcrowding south of interstate 40?

Farragut High, with student population at and past 2300 students in recent years, is nobody's idea of a "community school." It is four times the size of the town my grandmother grew up in.

And I'm tired of the whining about the HVHS location. HVHS is six miles from Farragut. Students at Gibbs, Carter, and South-Doyle all travel that far or farther to reach their high schools. Powell and several other schools which don't have a dog in this west Knox race are also being asked to travel that far in the proposed rezoning plan, so that residents of the Town of Farragut do not have to do so. That's not acceptable.

PT: "As you don't want to leave your community in Powell, people in Farragut don't want to leave their community."

If my community's Powell high school school had reached at and past 2300 students in recent years, I believe I would have enough sense to accept that my community needed to be split into two high school zones to accomodate *present* population, not to mention future growth. I would believe that, even though I live in Powell.

You, on the other hand, can't seem to accept that, nor are you one of these "people in Farragut." As a suburbanite to this suburb of the Town of Farragut, your argument is even weaker than theirs. Both areas lie within the Knox County school system, though, and as such, both need to comply with its zoning and school size dictates, or else fund your own schools.

PT: "So it seems everyone loses which means no one wins. Let's start talking solutions."

So far, it seems that everyone but the Town of Farragut loses. Let's *do* start talking solutions.

PT: "Are we willing to bring dollars to the table to build additions to existing schools to accomadate the growth?"

Am I not supposed to notice that HVHS and Karns High are slated in this rezoning proposal to open in '08 with 1347 and 1473 students respectively, occupying their buildings at 65 or 70% capacity, after importing students from east-lying areas? That's the Town of Farragut's "increased efficiency" pitch?

No, we're not willing to bring any more dollars to you until you fill HVHS with the 2100 students it is being built to hold and Karns High, four miles away, with the 2100 students it will now hold, after the addition that opened this month.

When we fill those 4200 seats with west Knox residents, without dragging West, Powell, and Central into the stew, *and* when we unload the 500 students from Powell Middle and Powell Elementary from the trailers they've waited in for the last 20 years, *and* when we remove all those other trailers and replace all those other 80 and 100 year old buildings, then we'll talk again about *future* growth in west Knox feeder schools.

PT: "There have been other threads that high schools shouldn't get that big. Who's decision should that be -- each community or the school board."

Well, it ain't a Farragut alderman's decision, so...the school board?

PT: "Rezoning at this magnitude is only the sign of poor long range planning."

Rezoning at this magnitude would be unprecedented, for sure.

The most recent "sign of poor planning," though, is that the school board planned on us not to notice that they had spent over $50 million on HVHS and Karns High, that the county's three largest high schools would still be the same three HVHS was designed to relieve, that Farragut would reach enrollment of 2400 again long before HVHS is paid for, and that both HVHS and Karns High would be occupied at only 65 or 70% capacity, while school facilities outside of west Knox would be told to relocate to increase their functionality.

Oops. Someone noticed.

CathyMcCaughan's picture

numbers

HVHS can't start at 100% capacity if it is starting with only a Freshman class. Does anyone have numbers on the increases in time and distance traveling with this plan?

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Exceptions to rule

Cathy, on the thread you started on this subject, I just posted my complaint that the proposed rezoning plan, exhibiting undue concern for Town of Farragut boundaries and allowing Farragut High to reach nearly 2400 students in the next 8 years, *never* fully utilizes either HVHS or Karns High.

Per the link last week at the N-S site, "High School Enrollment Projections," HVHS would serve only 1440 students and Karns High would serve only 1783 students in 2016! Again, both schools have been built or are being built to serve 2100 students!

Note that these utilization numbers are *after* pulling in students from east-lying areas and *after* students not grandfathered begin arriving at the two schools.

So, again, why is every other KC school community facing proposed rezoning in the name of increased efficiency, while HVHS and Karns High are under no such mandate???

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