Wed
Jan 23 2013
07:34 pm
By: Rachel
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Discussing:
- Are Chat bots a waste of time? (1 reply)
- Smith & Wesson noise problem (1 reply)
- Musicians dropping out of President's Freedom Concert Series (1 reply)
- It's time for new blood in Congress, Barnett in - Burchett out (1 reply)
- Burning Down The House... (2 replies)
- Behind Lege Lies (1 reply)
- Peace (1 reply)
- Speak your truth, fight and believe. (1 reply)
- Large banks have too much AI data center debt? (1 reply)
- GOP misleading on federal health care funding (1 reply)
- Feds indict civil rights group (3 replies)
- Georgia issues burn ban, first time in state history (2 replies)
TN Progressive
- Smith & Wesson not a good fit for Blount County (BlountViews)
- Pellissippi Parkway extension delayed again (BlountViews)
- Blount County early voting record turnout (BlountViews)
- Louisville, TN, town center coming soon? (BlountViews)
- WATCH THIS SPACE. (Left Wing Cracker)
- America As It Is Right Now (RoaneViews)
- A friend sent this: From Captain McElwee's Tall Tales of Roane County (RoaneViews)
- The Meidas Touch (RoaneViews)
- Massive Security Breach Analysis (RoaneViews)
- (Whitescreek Journal)
- My choices in the August election (Left Wing Cracker)
- July 4, 2024 - aka The Twilight Zone (Joe Powell)
TN Politics
- Judge allows UFC cage matches to go ahead on White House lawn (TN Lookout)
- Stockard on the Stump: Tennessee keeping intensive probation program alive – barely (TN Lookout)
- Tennessee waste task force eyes changes to law allowing local rejection of landfills (TN Lookout)
- Nearly half of adults struggled to afford healthcare last year, survey finds (TN Lookout)
- Trump says ‘great settlement’ of Iran war in the works, signing ceremony soon (TN Lookout)
- ‘The Dumocrats are at it again’: Trump attack on California election offers midterm preview (TN Lookout)
Knox TN Today
- Vols win 4×100 relay, team is third in NCAA track (Knox TN Today)
- PAT the play returns to the stage in June (Knox TN Today)
- Easy Bacon & Swiss Quiche: Breakfast meal prep (Knox TN Today)
- Grayson boosts Ijams + In memoriam: Nic Arning, Bob Monday (Knox TN Today)
- Meet Slinky: The adventure buddy you’ve been wanting (Knox TN Today)
- Dining Duo goes to Vandergriff’s (Knox TN Today)
- Zoo Knoxville introduces Summer Concert Series (Knox TN Today)
- Food City named 2026 Retailer of the Year (Knox TN Today)
- 6/12 HEADLINES: News and events from Knox, World, USA, Tennessee & Historic Notes (Knox TN Today)
- Close to Home, Far from Ordinary: Townsend, TN, Ranks #9 destination on one tank of gas (Knox TN Today)
- Hiking with Harrington: Big Creek Trail (Knox TN Today)
- Falling Water Branch Falls: A 2020 Visit, Helene’s scars, and three new waterfalls (Knox TN Today)
Local TV News
- WEATHER AWARE: Sunday storm chances bring a damaging wind threat (WATE)
- Kenneth Simon, son of VFL Kevin Simon, flips commitment from Alabama to Tennessee (WATE)
- VFL Dalton Knecht returns to Knoxville to host first youth basketball camp (WATE)
- A third Lady Vol softball player enters transfer portal (WATE)
- Man in critical condition after shooting in Knoxville, police investigation underway (WATE)
- How drones helped first responders get eyes on Morgan County train derailment (WATE)
News Sentinel
State News
- Vols’ new strength coach may play key role in Baylor star DGG’s decision - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Healthcare dominates conversation with Republican primary opponents for Tennessee House - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Chattanooga podcaster hopes to spice up freight media - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Chattanooga businesses grapple with new hemp limits to take effect July 1 - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
Wire Reports
- Trump turns 80 with a showstopping spectacle of cage fights at the White House. But big issues loom - AP News (US News)
- Trump says deal to end Iran war will be signed Sunday, as Iran disagrees on timing - NPR (US News)
- Texas’s GOP platform is getting more extreme — and influential - The Washington Post (US News)
- Wildfire ignites after military aircraft crash near Rimrock Lake - KOMO (US News)
- Anthropic shuts down Mythos access after sweeping U.S. order - Los Angeles Times (Business)
- Trump’s name is gone from the Kennedy Center’s facade after court rulings - AP News (US News)
- State Attorneys General Are Investigating OpenAI - The New York Times (Business)
- Unhealthy air quality in California city as huge warehouse fire burns for 3rd day - AP News (US News)
- ABC's FCC battle could redefine press freedom - Axios (Business)
- Democrats have a one-word defense for supporting Graham Platner: Trump - The Washington Post (US News)
- Judge orders Trump administration to restore signs changed at national parks - CNN (US News)
- Northern Lights Forecast: Aurora May Be Visible In 9 States Tonight - Forbes (Business)
- The Stock Market Survived the SpaceX IPO. What to Watch for Next. - Barron's (Business)
- SpaceX workers just hit the jackpot. Now comes the hard part. - Business Insider (Business)
- Justice Department approves Paramount’s deal to buy Warner Bros. - The Washington Post (Business)
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Correction..,
The headline should read. "To officially allow women I'm combat. They've already been in direct combat since 1991.
I cannot wait to vote for the
(in reply to reform4)
I cannot wait to vote for the first woman President. I am glad we have the most women on the Supreme Court ever. It was great to see a record 20 women elected to the U.S. Senate in November. Also a record 79 women elected to the House. I hope we have many more women elected to Congress in the future. However, women in combat is a mistake. Women fighter pilots yes, foxholes no. That idea is just plain dumb!
You don't think women are
(in reply to lonnie)
You don't think women are capable of holding their own in foxhole/firing line combat or do you think that it's an esprit de corps type thing?
Women fighter pilots yes,
(in reply to lonnie)
Women fighter pilots yes, foxholes no. That idea is just plain dumb!
Why? As long as they can pass the physical requirements, what's the problem?
The physical requirements are
(in reply to Rachel)
The physical requirements are just part of the equation. Females and males have lots of learned characteristics from growing up in our society. Those characteristics will prove detrimental in women serving with males in combat.The primary objective of war is to win. The effectiveness of our combat forces will be compromised when women serve in large numbers in combat roles. Is this fair? No. But this is one area that is very different and difficult in deciding equal treatment. Not allowing women in combat does go against the grain of equality. It is mostly a man caused problem, but it is a big problem all the same and one that would endanger the readiness of combat units.The morale will suffer and the effectiveness of our forces will decline. In a combat unit all of the men will treat the female differently. Because of their different treatment the combat units will be endangered. The different treatment will lead to bad judgements and more deaths. The different reactions to circumstances by male and female soldiers are learned and genetic and are not easily changed. I remember a story told to me by a friend of mine who was my teacher and coach and later a colleague. He was a prisoner of war in Korea. He told me of a female prisoner that was tied down and brutally raped dozens of times in front of him and several other prisoners of war. He was in a weakened condition from lack of food and water. He had gone from his normal 180 lbs to less than 100 lbs. He spoke up against the brutality and was beaten severely.Females in combat present lots of problems that cannot be changed. Some military leaders are voicing their criticisms. Others will not, mostly because of pressure. They want to keep their jobs.
We have not had a draft in the U.S. since the end of the Vietnam War in 1973. Hopefully, we will not need a draft any time soon. It is always possible that a major conflict will break out and we will need additional forces and we will reinstate the draft. Women, now being part of our combat forces, logically would have to be included. Remember Jerry Fallwell's speeches against the ERA ratification,"if the ERA passed, our women would be forced into combat." I never agreed with anything much that Fallwell ever said, but that would have been one logical outcome of the ERA.
Women and men look at many things differently. Their minds and hearts are just different. In many ways women are superior to men. Women are much more reluctant to send their sons to war. Woman show more compassion than men. Polls show women are much more in favor of national healthcare and other social programs.Women elected President Obama. I sure wish a lot of those ignorant men that voted for Romney would take notes from those women. It was the first female member of Congress Jeanette Rankin that cast the only vote on Dec. 8, 1941 against declaring war on Japan. She had also voted against going to war in 1917 when the U.S. entered WWI.
I have probably not explained my position very well. I know
not allowing women in combat is not fair and it does not have a good constitutional basis, but it is the only sensible thing to do.
Well, first of all, there are
(in reply to lonnie)
Well, first of all, there are already a bunch of women in combat - just not in certain jobs (including the higher paying ones).
Second, listen to yourself: It is mostly a man caused problem, but it is a big problem all the same and one that would endanger the readiness of combat units.The morale will suffer and the effectiveness of our forces will decline. In a combat unit all of the men will treat the female differently. Because of their different treatment the combat units will be endangered. The different treatment will lead to bad judgements and more deaths.
Substitute "black" for "women" and "white" for "men" and it's the 1940s. Substitute "gay" for "women" and "straight" for "men" and it's the 1990s.
This argument has been made over and over again. It's proven wrong every time.
And BTW, if it's such a problem, how do the armed forces of a host of countries manage to pull it off?
Women have not been
(in reply to Rachel)
Women have not been "officially" assigned to combat. Because of the nature of war in Iraq and Afghanistan all soldiers there have been "in combat" even if they are not officially in combat the roadside bombs etc. have killed many. Just because women have been killed in battles does not mean that women in combat makes sense. I have read a lot on this and would hope you too will read up on some of the statistics and findings of studies of women in combat. Of course, there is a difference in say a Russian woman and an American woman...Very different society and background. Seems like you are just getting defensive ....and kinda mean spirited w/out considering any valid point I make. Almost sounds like a Republican. :)
Women have not been
(in reply to lonnie)
Women have not been "officially" assigned to combat.
Officially doesn't matter much when you're on the battlefield. Tell it to Tammy Duckworth.
Of course, there is a difference in say a Russian woman and an American woman
Not sure what you're getting at, but here is a partial list of countries that allow women in combat - Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, New Zealand, Norway, and of course Israel.
You're not saying American women are that different from Canadian women, are you?
Seems like you are just getting defensive ....and kinda mean spirited w/out considering any valid point I make. Almost sounds like a Republican.
Uh, dude, your position is more in keeping with that of many Republicans.
I'm not defensive at all; just stating my opinion.
And sorry, but you haven't made a valid point. You're just throwing out a bunch of assumptions that you can't substantiate. And it's not "mean-spirited" to point out that many of your arguments are EXACTLY the same ones used about blacks and gays.
It's just telling the truth.
Women in combat and
(in reply to Rachel)
Women in combat and integration of the services are not the same at all. It would not matter how many facts I gave you to prove my point or if you were told the combat killed or wounded numbers would increase by 1000% when women are added to combat....what you are really saying is a million could die for equality sake...women's equal access is your bottom line and top priority period regardless of all other consequences.
Given your position, you would have to be for women being registered by the the Selective Service and drafted.
Women in combat and
(in reply to lonnie)
Women in combat and integration of the services are not the same at all.
That's what people said 15 years ago about gays in the military - NOTHING like integration.
what you are really saying is a million could die for equality sake...women's equal access is your bottom line and top priority period regardless of all other consequences.
Sigh. Somebody else putting words in my mouth. I didn't say this at all. But I see no proof that "millions will die" and neither do the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Given your position, you would have to be for women being registered by the the Selective Service and drafted.
Yup. Not that I'm for a draft, period.
I've always had a little
I've always had a little concern about women in combat. I was listening to NPR the other day when they were discussing this topic. They had several current and ex military women on the show. They all admitted there were different physical standards for women.
Southern Beale also brought up something on this topic.
*
Back in the day, that was a huge sticking point to garnering support for ratification of the ERA--even among women who were otherwise supportive.
Yep, I remember. I show my
(in reply to Tamara Shepherd)
Yep, I remember. I show my students a video that shows Jerry Fallwell speaking against the ERA saying "if the Equal Rights Amendment is ratified, our girls will be sent into combat".
*
Just stumbled across this link and look how much litigation on this question (whether or not women should register with the Selective Service) has historically been decided on the basis of women having previously been excluded from combat.
The familiar adage, of course, is that "rights carry responsibiities," so...?
I think psychologically women
I think psychologically women are more than capable of holding their own in combat.
That said, most women don't have the physical build "capable" of shouldering heavy packs, say about 60 pounds that is almost always required now for long periods of duration in ground combat operations. Nor are they really "capable" of building such strength in those areas. If they could this might make a little more sense.
But this has to be the only government policy I've heard of where they're basically saying
"People die doing this, so let's make it where MORE can die,you know, for equality's sake."
most women don't have the
(in reply to AnonymousOne)
most women don't have the physical build "capable" of shouldering heavy packs, say about 60 pounds that is almost always required now for long periods of duration in ground combat operations.
And that's a good argument for keeping women who can't meet the standards out of combat (as well as men who can't). It's not a good argument for keeping women who CAN meet the standards out of combat.
Bingo
(in reply to Rachel)
I knew many women at USMA that could run the male cadets into the ground physically. They had a particular nickname- "rocks" because they were built like rocks.
And you never called them that to their faces, ever. :)
There are plenty of women out there that can meet the physical standards, and plenty of men who can't.
Ouch.......on second
(in reply to Rachel)
Ouch.......on second thought......I think there are thousands of women out there that have the potential to be a female Audie Murphy.
Now I'm not saying women
Now I'm not saying women can't deal with burdensome, physical challenges. Yeah, I'm thinking of the one lasting nine months. But as currently structured is it possible for enough of them to be used as men are in combat?
A large number of female
(in reply to AnonymousOne)
A large number of female soldiers became pregnant during the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Even though the war lasted only six weeks 58 American women soldiers got pregnant. On the ship the U.S.S. Acadia alone, 36 women became pregnant during the war, leading the press to call it the "Love Boat'
The Acadia aside..
.. that was an outlier point of disciplinary/leadership failure. Taken them out, that means 22 women got pregnant in six weeks.
There were roughly 45,000 women in theatre, so that's a pregnancy rate of 0.05%. It's not known from the statistic whether they were pregnant before going into theatre, and they found out they were pregnant in theatre, there being a little time delay for those familiar with the process. We also don't know how many of those pregnancies were related to sexual assaults, which was a bit of a problem there in 1991 (estimated 8% were sexually assaulted)... and still is. One woman soldier was quoted about the combat knife she carried: "The knife wasn't for the Iraqis," says one woman. "It was for the guys on my own side."
And, for the record, a woman was more likely to be killed or wounded in action in the 1991 Gulf War than impregnated (and that was the "safe and easy" Gulf war). And if they were impregnated, given over 3000+ sexual *assaults*, I'm guessing a good number of those are categorized as true rapes, so is the problem really with the WOMEN in the military????
That's like me going to the hospital after beating my kid and breaking her arm, and me trying to explain to the doctor how it's my kid's fault. I don't think so.
Acadia Followup
(in reply to reform4)
14 of the 36 were pregnant before boarding the ship, just not yet tested:
(link...)
22 became pregnant on board, "perhaps on liberty calls in Hawaii, the Philippines and other ports the Acadia visited on her way to the gulf"
And, FWIW, it's not illegal for women in the military to get pregnant:
How are people defining combat?
Because the argument in the thread makes it sound like "combat" only means army infantry. I would think military combat encompasses a lot of different situations. For examble, are submariners not considered to be in "combat" situations, because they're not infantry? Are fighter pilots not considered to be in "combat" situations, because they're not infantry?
The main reason I've heard for opening up combat positions to women is because the promotion track practically required combat experience. But I don't know if that's true or not, or whether that's limited only to the Army promotion track. Can anyone elaborate?
I understand that combat
(in reply to Min)
I understand that combat experience does relate to promotion in the military. I thought women could already fly fighter jets, I could be wrong.
Transport
(in reply to bizgrrl)
They can fly fighters when ferrying them between bases, but not into combat sorties.