According to the Knoxville News Sentinel, the City of Knoxville's $4 million investment of local and federal taxpayer funds at the Five Points Village Plaza isn't paying off. Owners of a grocery store, the anchor tenant there, say that after only five months in operation they are losing money and will probably have to close the store by November.
This is surprising to me, and apparently a lot of other people. You'd think that people in the community would support a neighborhood grocery. Where are they shopping instead? And why?
You may also recall that the Five Points grocery ran into trouble once before, when the original investment/management team dropped out of the project just as it was being completed.
Maybe this is another clue why nobody seems to want to open a grocery store in the downtown area. The deal to open one in the former Watson's building on the Market Square seems to have evaporated.
More history of the Five Points grocery after the jump...
From the City of Knoxville:
Thompson's BDT Development & Management LLC, as majority owner of the Village Plaza, recruited the family-owned Cox & Wright Food Center to operate the grocery store as a joint venture with his company. The firms are buying out the interest of D&W LLC, which was to have been a joint venture of John Davis and Jim Woods."We have all worked very hard to see this project through, and I'm committed to completing this project and running a successful community-based grocery store," said LeRoy Thompson, president of BDT Development & Management. "We are focused on getting the doors open as quickly as possible."
John Davis, and his wife, Pilar, which had operated the Express Mart on the site, were among those who sold their property to Knoxville's Community Development Corporation for the redevelopment project.
Mr. Davis partnered with Jim Woods, president of the grocery chain Smith and Woods, to operate the grocery store. Mr. Woods was to provide initial working capital and management expertise. Woods notified the City of Knoxville and Davis that financial and health issues prevented Mr. Woods from continuing with the project.
"I am disappointed that I have had to end my involvement in this project, but I simply had no choice," Mr. Davis said. "I did not have the financial backing or the management expertise to do this project alone.
[..]
"Our first goal in supporting this project has been to create a community grocery store that provides quality service, specialized products and creates employment opportunities," said Renee Kesler, the City's director of community development. "Secondly, we wanted to encourage strong minority participation and ownership in the project. I believe this new agreement will accomplish both goals."
From the Knoxville Community Development Corp.:
The grand opening of Five Points Plaza was held May 5th. This is a public-private partnership that is the cornerstone of what is hoped to be a larger development of the Five Points area (where our Walter P. Taylor Homes property is located). The key business housed here is a Metro Village Market IGA. This market is a welcome addition to an area where there has been almost no available shopping unless community residents travel several miles out on Magnolia. KCDC’s main role in the project was preparing the Five Points Comprehensive Redevelopment Plan and assembling the land for the Five Points Village Shopping Center, which involved relocating community residents and clearing the site for redevelopment. KCDC conveyed the land to the Industrial Development Board, enabling them to provide a P.I.L.O.T. (payment in lieu of taxes) as a subsidy for the project. The Grocery Store project also received about $4 million in subsidy from the City, County, and Federal Government.
From the City of Knoxville:
"The redevelopment of this block is intended to stimulate additional investment in commercial and residential property in this area," Mayor Haslam said. "This project became a reality because of the collaboration among many institutions and individuals. By continuing to work together, Five Points can be a thriving community once again."The project has received funding from the federal Empowerment Zone program, city of Knoxville, Knox County, KUB, and a federal grant awarded to the Partnership for Neighborhood Improvement. The developer, BDT Development & Management LLC and grocery store operator, BDT-Cox & Wright Partnership, are also making significant investments in the center.
Congressman Duncan stated, "This is a great day for our citizens. I believe the revitalization of the Five Points area will bring jobs and services that will greatly benefit the community's growing economy."
From a HUD press release:
"All this doesn't work unless we shop here," Knoxville Mayor Bill Haslam told the crowd of more than 400 area residents, elected officials and businesspeople that turned out for the ribbon cutting and speech-making. "Buy your groceries here and buy your gas here - the folks at Pilot will be all right without it," the Mayor said with a smile, referring to the convenience store and travel center business his family founded and of which he was president before becoming mayor.State rep. Joe Armstrong, whose district includes the Five Points neighborhood in East Knoxville, led the crowd in the Pledge of Allegiance and then added his "pledge to shop at the village." Congressman Jimmy Duncan (R-2nd Dist) also spoke, calling the shopping center representative of the good things happening in Knoxville. Success of the new shopping center will lead to continued investment and revitalization of Five Points and other inner city communities, several elected officials said.
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Does it really matter
Does it really matter whether it is KCDC or TDC? These two non-profits have laid so many eggs around Knox County. The failure of Five Points Village Plaza isn't any different than the failed industrial parks around Knox County.
Why do we allow non-profits to have this kind of power? Will we ever learn, "if you build it they may not come"? The budgets of both the City and the County are bursting at the seams but the "Field of Dreams" mentality continues.
This is why the new High School is underfunded. This is why our teachers are underpaid.
Want to read something shocking? Check out the tax returns of two powerful local non-profits, the Knox Area Chamber and TDC. Take special note at the salaries and offices expenses. The taxpayers are being taken to the cleaners.
Try this:
(link...)
(link...)
Three Chamber staff over
Three Chamber staff over $100,000 and Mike Edwards at $211,000???!!! Seems wrong to me.
Ann
It's got to be walkable
Maybe this is another clue why nobody seems to want to open a grocery store in the downtown area.
While 5 points is nearer to downtown than, say, Bearden, it's not significantly closer than the Fellini Kroger on Broadway. For the elusive "downtown grocery store" to actually work, it's going to have to be within reasonable walking distance for the hundreds of folks who live downtown, and the thousands who work here.
As a downtown resident I'd love to have such an amenity. But in the meantime it's about 1 mile to the Three Rivers food co-op and 2 miles to the Broadway Kroger from my front door on the 100 Block. There are a lot of folks in the city that don't live that close to a grocery. But once I have to get in a car, proximity becomes less of an issue since I'm usually combining trips like pharmacy, hardware store, and a host of other type of merchants that aren't within walking distance.
Actually, I've begun to think that a well stocked Walgreen's would fill in a lot of the gaps. But downtown isn't condusive to Walgreen's policy of building one, abandoning it after a couple of years, and then building another 2 blocks away.
~m.
Which brings up another
Which brings up another question. Can hundreds of residents support a full-service grocery store? What is the critical mass, I wonder.
Which brings up another
Which brings up another question. Can hundreds of residents support a full-service grocery store?
I think that kind of depends on what you mean by a full-service grocery store. I don't think that downtown will support a supermarket akin to a Kroger or a Food City. Something of the scale of the Fresh Market in Bearden or even the Three Rivers Co-op would be more appropriate. I don't expect we'll get to the point that everything I could possibly want is within walking distance. But I do think that a convenient grocer where both residents and downtown workers can pick up all the ingredients for a decent dinner is more viable than many might think.
~m.
how far?
"I don't expect we'll get to the point that everything I could possibly want is within walking distance."
How far is a reasonable distance to walk for your groceries?
How far is a reasonable
How far is a reasonable distance to walk for your groceries?
Eh, I don't know. Two or three blocks, maybe. Beyond that, I'd use the bike. I already do occasionally to get to shopping in Bearden via the greenway. It's not so much walking as it is not having to drive. I walk about three and half blocks to the Market Square garage to just get to my car, if that lends any perspective.
~m.
I don't think that downtown
I don't think that downtown will support a supermarket akin to a Kroger or a Food City. Something of the scale of the Fresh Market in Bearden...
Heh, we need a Fresh Market in Blount County before you need one downtown. You're like 3 - 4 miles from Fresh Market now, we're 15 miles or so.
supply lines
It seems like the Five Points store should be getting customers primarily from East Knoxville, not downtown. Still, it might get more downtown business if TDOT hadn't blown up the bridge on the primary route between downtown and Five Points.
Connection of East Knoxville to Downtown
Rikki is correct about TDOT cutting off east Knoxville to downtown...the sad part is that it will only get worse as the I40 project continues. It is unfortunate that the city allowed this to happen...it's bad for east Knox and it's bad for downtown.
Bill Pittman
P.S. Just to be clear, my
P.S. Just to be clear, my point about a downtown grocery was not that the Five Points grocery was convenient to downtown, but rather if a more densely populated neighborhood such as that can't support a grocery, how will one succeed downtown?
Did you see the 401(K) contributions for Edward, Rice, Peterson?
That goes into a separate account for retirement purposes.
That is a moral disgrace.
Name 3 things worth a crap they have done over the past 5 years.
Name 3 things worth a crap they have done over the past 5 years.
Old Hickory questioned: "Name 3 things worth a crap they have done over the past 5 years."
Answer: Gotten themselves incredible salaries (I'm having trouble coming up with the other two things, though.).
They've started moving dirt
They've started moving dirt to build the new Food City store adjacent to Mechanicsville; it will be interesting to see whether it makes it or not. According, Cas Walker's marketing stategy, it's located on the wrong side of Western Avenue.
In the light of the downtown liquor store issue, it's interesting to note that it is being constructed directly across from a church and will no doubt sell beer.
Convenient or not, it's hard for an independent to compete with the chains and it's difficult for the chains to compete with Walmart's aggressive pricing policy.
>it will be interesting to
>it will be interesting to see whether it makes it or not. According, >Cas Walker's marketing stategy, it's located on the wrong side of >Western Avenue.
Ironically, the Five Points market does sit on the cas Walker approved side of MLK. In fact, it more or less sits on the site of an old Cas Walker store.
Submitted by edens on Wed,
Submitted by edens on Wed, 2006/08/16 - 1:31pm.
Ironically, the Five Points market does sit on the cas Walker approved side of MLK. In fact, it more or less sits on the site of an old Cas Walker store.
Same site, different demographics and not necessarily related to Five Points. There's an economic reason why retail stores named Dollar General, Family Dollar, Sav-A-Lot, etc. are found in intercity neighborhoods.
Wow...only 14 comments until
Wow...only 14 comments until a Wal-Mart bashing post. Must be a record. I dont think Wal-Mart or big chains have anything to do with putting a store downtown or not. RNeal was on the money with critical mass...not enough people to sustain one. Speaking of access from East Knoxville (where I live)...does anyone know if TDOT is still planning on shutting down I-40 past the Broadway exit in the near future?
Saying it's difficult to
Saying it's difficult to compete with Wal-Mart is "Wal-Mart bashing?"
Somebody needs to get a grip.
~m.
I hate Wal-Mart, its filthy
I hate Wal-Mart, its filthy and I feel like I have to take a shower everytime I shop there. I just dont like to use the old Wal Mart/big chain crutch in discussions on why there isnt a downtown grocery store. Now that we have beaten that dead horse... anyone know what the residential population of downtown is?
... anyone know what the
... anyone know what the residential population of downtown is?
According to the CBID web site, "over 1,500." My guess is that's a little dated and it's probably closer to 2,000 these days. The numbers are on the increase.
~m.
A grocery store around the
A grocery store around the UT/Fort Sanders area would be perfect. It is the most densly populated area in all of Knox County and people need cars to get to the grocery store. I bet McDonalds, Burger King, Krystals, Subway, all the restaurants down there would be opposed to it. Fast Food sucks....
Found an interesting
Found an interesting article on NPR re: downtown grocery stores...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5314530
Exactly Who is BDT Development?
Per the Tennessee Secretary of State's Office, the registered agent for BDT Development is Bob Talbott of HolRob fame and the BDT Development office is at 5500 Lonas Drive, Suite 300, Knoxville, 37909, which is HolRob Commercial Realty's office up the hill from Pilot HeadQuarters. I'm not so sure that Leroy Thompson was merely a front for a government whammy that didn't work on the grocery store side. I'd like for somebody to explain whether or not anybody is in this thing other than HolRob and his cast of characters including John Greiss.
That might explain why nobody wanted to shop at the IGA. It may not be the location, it might be high prices, captive audience, and others who are just looking to make a nickle while subsidized by the local, state, and federal government.
Will Downtown Theatre Yield Different Result?
Will the much balleyhooed downtown theatre do any better than the grocery store at 5 points?
Again, a significant public investment in an operation which doesn't have the population density to fit most private for profit models or alter existing consumer patters away from center city and into other directions.
Will the much balleyhooed
Will the much balleyhooed downtown theatre do any better than the grocery store at 5 points?
I dunno. Guess we'll see. But I think it's got a good shot. UT and the entireity of South Knoxville are miles from a cinema. I don't think anybody's counting solely on downtown dwellers to support it. It wouldn't surprise me if the question becomes which of the outlying theaters are going to be most impacted by the loss of business to downtown. I'm guessing the ones near Knoxville Center since they're the closest to the communities I mentioned.
~m.
Wow...only 25 comments until
Wow...only 25 comments until a Dollar General, Family Dollar, Sav-A-Lot, etc. bashing post. What's next, the bashing of Mega Lo Mart or the Try-N-Save?
Re: Wow...only 25 comments until
No bashing intended. Simply recognizing the economic reality that many families have to shop price, not convenience nor brand name, to make it from paycheck to paycheck, social security check to social security check.
Sorry, Stan. I wasn't
Sorry, Stan. I wasn't funnin' you. Metul hits on what makes me really depressed about driving down roads like Magnolia. It's like the only businesses that thrive use loan shark practices. Title loans, rent-to-own, etc. The cash and "easy credit," i.e. none, business. Wonder what the effect would be if some of these tactics were outlawed. Not that they could be, w/our corrupt state and local gov't., of course.
Over 500 Varieties
I just got back from my first visit to the new Mast General Store and can report that downtown has literally thousands more items available for retail sale than I can remember in 10 years -- including over 500 varieties of candies.
And the place was packed.
~m.
Let's Hope There More Than Candy, T-Shirts, and Mugs
Cracker Barrell we got already, Bass Pro Shops are already in Sevierville and the closest Gander Mountain shop is Greenesboro or Paducha (until the new one opens in Turkey Creek next year)
Aaaacchhhh! You mentioned
Aaaacchhhh! You mentioned Turkey Creek! Blasphemy!
If they'd just just stock
If they'd just just stock milk, bread, eggs, coffee, flour, sugar, and toilet paper you're all set!
I take it you've never been
I take it you've never been to J's Mega Mart.
~m.
Nope. Should I? Where is it?
Nope. Should I? Where is it?
Its on Gay Street in the
Its on Gay Street in the Kress building. Its the store with all of the funky wigs in the windows.
J's certainly isn't a
J's certainly isn't a grocery store. But it is the Wal-Mart of downtown. And you can buy some version of milk, bread, eggs, coffee, flour, sugar, and toilet paper ( I'm not actually sure about the flour, but it wouldn't surprise me). You can also buy office supplies, hats, cleaning products, lottery tickets, toilet plungers, jewelry, miscellaneous over-the-counter meds, pots, pans, Jone's Soda, motor oil, paper towells, and of course, wigs. Lots of wigs.
J's gets its fair share of derision. It's not exactly the sparkling clean and fastidious sort of shopping experience a lot of folks are used to. But it is a downtown institution and a source for things you didn't even know you needed. If you haven't been there, you really owe it to yourself to check it out next time you're knocking around downtown (except Sundays). J's puts the funk in funky.
~m.
White Lily
Can you buy sacks of flour at the White Lily mill in the Old City?
White Lily
Rikki asks: Can you buy sacks of flour at the White Lily mill in the Old City?
Nope. But White Lily has been neighborly in forming a relationship with my wife's Old City bakery, Magpies Cakes. More like a 1/2 pallet at a time. Only the best!
/shameless but germaine
J's Mega Mart
I must say that J's is the only place I've ever seen stuff for sale that has been previously marked "this item not labled for individual sale."
"It's not exactly the
"It's not exactly the sparkling clean and fastidious sort of shopping experience a lot of folks are used to."
you mean, like the fellini kroger's up the street?
Not quite
With the exception of possibly the clientelle, J's and the Fellini Kroger have little in common. J's carries some bare bones groceries like the staples mentioned above; but not much. The Kroger, on the other hand, has no wigs. It's really apples and oranges, so to speak.
~m.