Fri
Aug 6 2010
02:53 pm

What: CITY COUNCIL TO HOLD WORKSHOP ON TEN YEAR PLAN
When: Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 5:00pm
Where: Main Assembly Room, City County Bldg

Knoxville City Council has scheduled a workshop to hear from the Office of the Ten Year Plan to End Chronic Homelessness.

The meeting will take place starting at 5 p.m. Thursday, September 30, in the main assembly room at the City-County Building. One of the topics of discussion will be the TYP*s efforts to communicate more effectively and more frequently with the general public on the goals of the TYP.

Donna Clark's picture

This is what the TYPChoice

This is what the TYPChoice group asked for and was turned down. So as long as a neutral moderator like Gene Patterson isn't there the Ten Year Plan will attend?

What is the TYP hiding? They always hide behind Ginny Weatherstone or Bill Lyons. Now they will hide behind City Council?

I hope at least one person on Council will ask the TYP why there is no 24/7 security and mandatory drug counseling.

rikki's picture

I hope at least one person on

I hope at least one person on Council will ask the TYP why there is no 24/7 security and mandatory drug counseling.

Has the TYPO position changed from "mandatory sobriety" to "mandatory drug counseling"? Those are very different demands. One is exclusionary, the other supportive. Drug counseling for those who need it is already part of the TYP framework.

Bill Lyons's picture

Workshop focus

The main focus of the workshop is to review and discuss TYP's efforts to communicate more effectively. While Council members may, of course, get into other areas if they so choose, the workshop was not scheduled to revisit the substantive issues that have been discussed during the community conversations.

fischbobber's picture

Now would be a great time to

Now would be a great time to appoint a city liaison to this project. They really aren't that far from becoming a neighborhood asset. What the TYP really needs is real support from somewhere. There are some mega churches that need to step up and the city and county could coordinate in order to offer support for these folks. Right now these projects resemble a Moses in the bullrushes sort of scenario. The improvements that can make these projects work don't have to be expensive, but they need to be a practical exercise in raising neighborhood property values.

Horseshoe pits, playgrounds, bike lanes, sidewalks, clean ups, and fixing drainage issues as well as other localized minor issues require more focus than money. Apply the government's focus to the area immediately around the PSH sites. Supposedly, Republicans advocate running government like a business. In the business world, you offer something to get something. At this point a PSH is asking a lot. Offer a lot. Do the initial projects right and make them a positive addition to a neighborhood. Worry about saving money as the bugs get worked out of the system.

Mark Shipman's picture

"While Council members may,

"While Council members may, of course, get into other areas if they so choose, the workshop was not scheduled to revisit the substantive issues that have been discussed during the community conversations."

What a cop out Bill. The meetings were not televised and not convenient to anyone. Why are you defending this hiding out at the Cansler YMCA? All the tactics of the TYP show is they are hiding something.

So now it will be televised but no one can ask any questions? That is the best you can do? Come out come out wherever you are.

Stop playing hide and seek.

Mark Shipman's picture

Oh Bull. The meetings were

Oh Bull. The meetings were promised in all four quadrants of the city. Where was the east meeting? Only one meeting out west. The Cansler YMCA is always filled with people in the TYP. The last meeting at Cansler had maybe six non-TYP people.

The TYP simply won't answer questions in any location. I've read your comments. You just want the homeless out of your neighborhood. All you do is mumble dumb excuses for this pitiful plan.

Mark Shipman's picture

"If you are from Powell, for

"If you are from Powell, for example, and you are vulnerable in some way it makes better geographical sense to have facilities located closer to your social networks where you are from than to come to a place where you are exploited."

What does that even mean?

"As for your "Oh. Bull," what you put forward was that Cansler was a poorly located place for meetings or somehow inconvenient. It's not."

You said that. I said they were hiding.

JC's picture

"It means "people get better

"It means "people get better when close to family," among other things."

Their "family" is next to KARM. Not Teaberry or Debusk Lane.

I think you hurt your cause more than you help it. Keep talking.

bizgrrl's picture

Wasn't it determined that the

Wasn't it determined that the Cedar Bluff area is now the center of the population for Knox County?

Rachel's picture

No, no, and no. This

No, no, and no. This misconception simply will NOT die.

The center of population of Knox County is somewhere around Western Avenue and I640.

whooshe65's picture

The Interested Public

To all of you out there that feels that the TYP has been doing a good job since March with their claims of better communications. please make a post here.

Here are my observations.

TYP Communication accomplishments since March 1, 2010.

1) Convinced 150 people at the Arnstein center meeting that they had no plan on how they would pay for or provide the Mental Health and Addiction counseling services needed for their PSH to be successful.

2) At the DeBusk Lane site meeting at County Commission in November, Jon Lawler stated that there were 800 Chronically Homeless in Knoxville. At the Arnstein Center meeting he said there were now 1252. This is about a 55% increase in just 4 months.

3) At the April 6th city council meeting Bill Lyons disclosed that the costs of providing the Mental Health and Addiction counseling services were going to be covered by Tenncare/Medicaid. Mr. Lyons stated this because the residents will automatically qualify for Medicaid because of the SSI disability designation. Thousands of people were cut from this program in February of this year. Seems curious that they are counting on the State and Federal Gov. for this ongoing cost.

4) In April, David Arning, filed for a Variance for the Flenniken School property, to reduce the number of Zoning required parking spaces from 58 to 24 with no notice to the neighborhood.

5) In May, Mr. Arning received approval of his Variance over neighborhood objections, and two weeks later, after an appeal was filed by one of the Area residents, they announced that they would have a meeting to explain to the community why they had not told them about the Variance, before it happened.

6) In June, the TYP announced that they had received a donation to hire a PR firm from a local Foundation. Turned out that a single individual gave that 100,000, to the East TN Foundation for that purpose only.

7) April to July, the TYP begins to have community information meetings. 4 have been held so far, with three of them at the Cansler Street YMCA, with average attendance of about 65 people, most of whom are either employees of the City, County or the Services providers. One meeting at the Deane Hill Rec center, drew over 150 people, with lots of questions and not many answers. Guess they learned their lesson, and moved back to the Cansler St. Y, after that meeting. When asked by Ron Peabody, What was the total number of Homeless in Knoxville?, Jon Lawler, answered “I don’t have that number”

8) TYP advisory board meetings basically eliminated. At the June Meeting, Jon Lawler announced that they would no longer cover all the item by item updates and projections that they had done since 2007, and instead, would go to a conversational format, and then meet separately, in private session with the Board Members to actually discuss anything. PS. As of today, this TYP Advisory Board meeting information is still not posted on the TYP Website.

Keep up the good work TYP.

Rachel's picture

4) In April, David Arning,

4) In April, David Arning, filed for a Variance for the Flenniken School property, to reduce the number of Zoning required parking spaces from 58 to 24 with no notice to the neighborhood.

The variance was listed in writing in the UOR that SEH got last year (the UOR was conditional on the variance). Perhaps the neighborhood overlooked this, and I certainly agree that better communication would have been better, but the variance was hardly a secret.

three of them at the Cansler Street YMCA, with average attendance of about 65 people, most of whom are either employees of the City, County or the Services providers.

And your point is? People aren't interested enough to turn out? Or they can't bring themselves to go to the (shudder) Cansler Y?

whooshe65's picture

Rachel,

The variance was listed in writing in the UOR that SEH got last year (the UOR was conditional on the variance). Perhaps the neighborhood overlooked this, and I certainly agree that better communication would have been better, but the variance was hardly a secret.

Were the residents of Vestal provided a copy of the Use On Review package that you mentioned above?

If so, was it this year, or within a couple of months of the BZA meeting to hear the Variance request?

Or was it last year in June, when the MPC Voted down the original UOR?

The point of my comment it to illustrate the ridiculous claim that the TYP is trying to improve their communication with the Residents of Knoxville. That claim is laughable.

And your point is? People aren't interested enough to turn out? Or they can't bring themselves to go to the (shudder) Cansler Y?

The pledge by the TYP was to have these meetings all over Knoxville. After 4 meetings they have been at 2 locations. This by my math is not all over Knoxville.

Stop trying to make this some kind of a East against West or South against North or what ever it is that you are trying to do.

BTW Hope you are at the MPC meeting this time, to Vote in support of your neighbors on the Southside, that don't want Flenniken to continue.

Rachel's picture

BTW Hope you are at the MPC

BTW Hope you are at the MPC meeting this time, to Vote in support of your neighbors on the Southside, that don't want Flenniken to continue.

As I've told you before, my job on MPC is not to "support my neighbors." It's to do my best to vote in the public interest. Which is what I intend to do.

Here's a challenge to you: perhaps you could come to the meeting and introduce yourself instead of hiding behind anonymous posts.

rikki's picture

Were the residents of Vestal

Were the residents of Vestal provided a copy of the Use On Review package that you mentioned above?

You'd be taken more seriously if you weren't constantly demonstrating how little you understand.

whooshe65's picture

rikki,

Try again,

The Use-on-Review was created in June of last year, and did not pass City Council until August of last year.

The Variance request was not submitted by Arning until April of this year.

Why did Mr Arning wait for over 8 months to submit the Variance Request to the BZA?

Could it be, that he was trying to wait until things died down, and the People of Vestal had lost all hope of stopping the Flenniken Project?

Guess Peabody, and TYP Choice changed that.

Keep trying though, it's kind of entertaining.

rikki's picture

You should get your own straw

You should get your own straw if you're going to drink from #9's sippy cup. You seem to have caught his disease.

sobi's picture

Facts? C'mere. I want you to meet Ron Whooshpeady.

The pledge by the TYP was to have these meetings all over Knoxville. After 4 meetings they have been at 2 locations. This by my math is not all over Knoxville.

I know how much you respect deep, penetrating analysis of exhaustive research, so I looked here, here, here, and here, and I don't see any pledge made by anyone to hold these meetings "all over Knoxville." And you are always quoting "friends" who go to all these meetings, aren't you? They must not be all that hard to find.

It would be cool to pick some different places, but keeping them central, which the Cansler YMCA is, makes a lot more damned sense than trotting the whole mess out to some deep west oven like the Deane Hill gym.

whooshe65's picture

Sobi,

Considering your lack of attendance at any of the recent TYP meetings, its kind of funny, that you complain about the oven, at the Dean Hill Rec Center.

The Air was turned off, as to not make the place inviting. They Play B-Ball there year round, and the AC freezes that Gym on a daily basis.

If you had attended any TYP meetings, you would have heard the same things many people heard, that they were going to have these meetings all over town.

Get a grip, and stop defending the undefendable actions of this group of so-called professionals

Rachel's picture

The Air was turned off, as to

The Air was turned off, as to not make the place inviting.

If you're going to make an allegation like that, you need to offer some evidence. I assume you have some. What is it?

whooshe65's picture

Rachel,

The interesting thing is that for all the people that I know that were at the Deane Hill meeting including myself, and know what it's like in that GYM, they all said the same thing. It appeared that the AC was either turned way down or off. According to reports, it just got hotter during the entire meeting.

What did your friends say, that had ever been in that GYM before?

Rachel's picture

It appeared that the AC was

It appeared that the AC was either turned way down or off.

That's possible. It's also possible the A/C was having a bad day.

But it's a very different statement that saying it was done intentionally to make people uncomfortable. Where's your evidence of intent?

bizgrrl's picture

but keeping them central,

but keeping them central, which the Cansler YMCA is

As has been mentioned, the Cansler YMCA is not actually central to Knox County population. It is about 7 miles East of the center of Knox County population. Whereas, the Deane Hill Rec Ctr is only about 2 miles West of Knox County's population center.

sobi's picture

As has been mentioned, The

As has been mentioned,

The center of population of Knox County is somewhere around Western Avenue and I640.

Cansler's roughly a mile and a half away from that. And it is, as the local riluters like to say, "Convenient to everything."

bizgrrl's picture

Actually not. The

Actually not. The intersection of Western and I640 is about 5 miles from Cansler and about 5 miles from Deane Hill. Not saying I concur Western and I640 is the population center of Knox County.

sobi's picture

I admire your precsion.

It's an excellent quality, but applied in this context, it's nitpickingly pointless. Generally speaking, Cansler is centrally located. I'm not saying these meetings should not be spread out more, but if you want to make the argument for some kind of rule that public meetings must take place at the absolute center of the population or at the geographic center of the city, then you're arguing for a single location. No location for anything like this is perfect, and none will make everyone happy. The most important thing is the meetings are going on in plain view on a regular basis and plenty of people seem to be showing up for them. If a person can't bring themselves to attend a meeting about what they're otherwise saying is such a vital issue just because the location is nine miles away from where they park their car instead of four, then they should just read about the meetings online.

Rachel's picture

Oh, good grief. The Cansler

Oh, good grief. The Cansler Y is central in terms of driving distance (which is what really matters in these things) from all parts of the county.

It's a facility with big enough rooms, good A/C, lots of free parking. It's easy to find. It's as good a central site as you can find.

I'd rather everybody put energy into discussing the real issues, rather than whether one meeting site is exactly in the center of the county or not.

Somebody's picture

Rocks.

But that's what this small but noisy "TYP Choice" gang is all about. They decided what they were against (the TYP) and have spent the last few months trying to come up with a reason why. Discussing substantive issues doesn't even remotely interest them. If they think a rock might be loose, they'll try to pick it up and throw it. If there are no loose rocks, they'll make their own. That's why their petition language would have had the TYP and many other related plans and documents obliterated, while their "alternative" is a shrug and a disingenuous call for someone else to start from scratch and make a 'better plan.' To these folks, air conditioning, where the center of the city is, housing, and mental health treatment are all equally relevant topics, because, to the TYP Choice guys, they each represent nothing more than a rock for the throwing.

whooshe65's picture

TYP Bad Faith

Wonder if Ackermann thought this was a good idea?

This email was sent out yesterday to neighborhood groups on the Southside. Maybe they can explain this to City Council at the workshop.

----Original Message-----
From: Robert Finley
(recipients removed)
Sent: Fri, Aug 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Subject: Flenniken: working group forming, meeting cancellation

All:

The TYP has held meetings with residents of the community surrounding Flenniken School since spring of 2008. The last two, held at the South Knoxville Community Center, covered a wide variety of topics, including concerns about community safety and the site plan for the Flenniken project.
We appreciate the time invested in these meetings by everyone who has attended. We have listened to the concerns of residents near Flenniken School and of individuals from other parts of Knoxville, and we have answered a lot of questions. We have learned a lot in these conversations and have hopefully communicated good information about the prospective residents of Flenniken Housing and the role that housing will play in their rebuilding their lives in the community.
At these meetings, many questions focused on the Ten-Year Plan in general. At the same time, we have been unable to devote appropriate attention to the concerns and questions of those individuals, institutions and businesses who live and work in close proximity to Flenniken.
Therefore, for now, the TYP will cease holding general meetings on the Flenniken project; the meeting previously scheduled at the South Knoxville Community Center on Monday, August 16, has been cancelled. Individuals in South Knoxville and elsewhere interested in learning about and discussing the various elements of the TYP are encouraged to attend the TYP's citywide public conversation meetings.
Since the Flenniken project will soon become a reality, the emphasis now needs to be on building relationships among those who will be involved in and live near the apartments. To that end, Knoxville Leadership Foundation/Southeastern Housing Foundation, Flenniken's prospective owner, is in the process of developing a working group made up of stakeholders in the Flenniken development.
The purpose of this group will be to foster good communication among the owner, key service providers, residents of the community surrounding Flenniken, and other stakeholders. The ultimate goal is of the group will be to help Flenniken integrate well into the community, and to help its residents to be good neighbors in a good neighborhood. We anticipate this working group being up and running this fall. Stay tuned. We'll keep you informed of its progress.
Sincerely,
Robert Finley
Mayors' Office of the Ten Year Plan to End Chronic Homelessness
400 Main Street
Knoxville TN 37902
rfinley@cityofknoxville.org
(link...)
865-215-3071

vernon's picture

I guess the meeting was only

I guess the meeting was only of benefit if MPC had denied them, this group is amazingly arrogant.

Rachel's picture

IMO, an advisory group - IF

IMO, an advisory group - IF properly constituted and handled - will be of much more use than these meetings.

The meetings have pretty much been just one big mess of acrimony. I understand why people are upset; but I don't see much getting accomplished.

Also, the Advisory Group should be long term rather than short term.

Vernon, MPC's UOR ruling can be appealed to Council, so the decision on Flenniken is not necessarily a done deal yet.

vernon's picture

again my point is ,they made

again my point is ,they made a committment to the group to have another meeting and they scheduled it,rather than crap on these people one more time,why not have the meeting,then explain it is the last one and transition into the next type of meeting,its just not that hard to do things in a way that does not insult people.
If anyone was considering an appeal I hope this pushes them to go forward.The TYP leadership is its own worst enemy.

rikki's picture

why not have the meeting,then

why not have the meeting,then explain it is the last one and transition into the next type of meeting,its just not that hard to do things in a way that does not insult people.

That is a good point.

Anonymous Monster's picture

Meh.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Utterly.

Rachel's picture

I agree; that's a pretty good

I agree; that's a pretty good point.

whooshe65's picture

Do your Job !!!

If all of the MPC commissioners had been at the meeting on Thursday, maybe TYP would still be having the meeting on Monday.

It's like the City Council reps said earlier in the week, if you commit to be on Council, or commission or any of the City Boards, than you should be at the meetings. I mean, they are only once or twice per month.

Rachel's picture

The MPC vote was 8-4. There

The MPC vote was 8-4. There are 15 MPC Commissioners. If all of them had been there, and all had voted "no" (not a good assumption), the vote would still have been 8-7.

In other words, it wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome.

As for meeting attendance, everyone would agree with you in theory. In practice, people get sick, people have family crises, people have to go out of town for work, people even - gasp - take vacations.

whooshe65's picture

rachel

No matter how you try to spin it, the reality is that if 3 - 4 commissioners came out like the first one did in support of a Denial, the vote could have gone the other way. Its hard to go against the trend.

But of course you actually have to be there to have this kind of impact.

And as far as the "it wouldn't have made a difference" thing,
My guess is that it would have made a difference to your Southside neighbors if ALL the Commissioners had been there Thursday.

Rachel's picture

Its hard to go against the

Its hard to go against the trend.

Yes, MPC Commissioners are all a bunch of lemmings. I hope you meant that to be insulting because it sure is.

I will be happy to discuss this with you further if you will tell me who I'm talking with. I'm not going to justify myself or Commission to an anonymous poster.

whooshe65's picture

Rachel

The only thing you have to justify is your own inaction.

Donna Clark's picture

You are on MPC Rachel? After

You are on MPC Rachel? After all you have written in this forum you have the gall to skip this vote?

How many votes have you missed in the past year?

vernon's picture

Maybe the residents could use

Maybe the residents could use this vacated meeting room to discuss filing an appeal.

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