North Knox residents unhappy with prostitution problem

Fri

May 18 2012

06:10 am

By: bizgrrl

A husband and wife moved into the North Knoxville neighorhood near the intersection of Broadway and Central just over a year ago. They are asking for help with the prostitution problem. "The couple took some cell phone video, where they identified one of the women in it as a regular prostitute in their neighborhood."

Mona Nair, WATE reporter, attempts to speak with the lady of the night (or day, as the case may be). The woman says she is a resident of the area and is not too happy to be approached by a reporter.

Knoxville police say they do regular prostitution stings, but arresting the women and men is not a deterrent. "They've been arrested 10-15 times or more," said Knoxville Police Lt. Jim Settlemyer.

Knoxville police say they are working on their next "sting" operation. However, "some of these prostitutes have been doing this so long they're able to identify an undercover cop car. They know immediately when they need to move out of an area."

As reported in January, 2012, North Knox residents are "tired of the loitering, spent condoms, old needles and other problems linked to vagrants in the area."

As I said back in January, this problem is not new. Is it possible to fix? Has any city of this size been able to correct this type of problem? Should KPD assign someone full-time to address the issues?

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Well-

Submitted by Big Al (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 8:51am.

I believe you mean the problem is not arresting johns. If so, I wholeheartedly agree as supply fills demand. I feel for the neighbors who contact the news agencies but unfortunately the take-away message broadcast all over east TN is:

1. Prostitutes are in this precise location.
2. The police don't have time to help.
3. Don't move to these neighborhoods.

A potential john now knows where to go without much fear of police intervention and people contemplating investing in an urban core neighborhood are deterred.

Unintended consequences may prevail.

This story is about a great area of Knoxville that needs to be assisted but the unbelievable concentration of social services in the area contributes to the problem.

Stop the demand for the service and their business will shrivel.

The law should be enforced

Submitted by Tess on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 10:08am.

The law should be enforced everywhere. But, the couple moved into a neighborhood where these activities were going on for a long time before they got there. Did they notice the hookers and johns before they moved in? Did they think the cops were going to swoop in and clean up the neighborhood just because a young good looking professional couple moved into the neighborhood?

Changing a neighborhood may take several generations of hard work and putting yourself in personal danger for trying to run off the established sleeze balls.

If you don't want to do that, move into a place where the odds aren't stacked against you having it the way you want it.

Oh, you are too kind.

Submitted by Tess on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 10:26am.

Oh, you are too kind. I like to think it is common sense.

True

Submitted by Tess on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 10:38am.

"These are the same streets their mothers and grandmothers worked."

Sad. But, again, that would be a red flag for me when looking to buy a home in an area.

The worse case of

Submitted by bizgrrl on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 10:39am.

The worse case of prostitution, yielding Mann Act convictions, in Knox County in the past 20 years had its base in West Knoxville. I guess those folks should have known better.

I'm pretty sure the ladies involved in that incident didn't walk the streets.

You cannot convince metulj.

Submitted by Beau (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 11:19am.

You cannot convince metulj. In his mind all Johns are from west Knoxville. Of course that is false. West Knoxville types use escort services. They don't go to North Knox for crack ho's. Let him have his fantasy. It's all he has. Personally I think anyone who has kids and deliberately raises them in North Knox for diversity is a lousy parent. They can read about diversity in a book. That kind of diversity is child abuse.

Good God... What are you

Submitted by Stick on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 11:44am.

Good God... What are you talking about? Have you ever lived in the city?

You do not know what you're

Submitted by Pam Strickland on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 8:09pm.

You do not know what you're talking about. Have you ever even been to Old North?

huh?

Submitted by Big Al (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 11:14am.

Absolutely not. What I was trying to convey was that the report would not encourage most folks to want to invest in the area or relocate to the area.

The answer is to stifle the demand and the supply will dry up.

See my post

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 11:21am.

See my post on Sweden's law below.

What have other cities/towns

Submitted by bizgrrl on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 9:07am.

What have other cities/towns done? In NYC there are several (many?) areas that were cleaned up and made safe again. What did it take? Does there need to be a neighborhood watch group (Zimmerman not withstanding)? What if KPD dedicated a walking/bike riding community officer to the area for a year?

>It's who the johns

Submitted by gonzone on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 3:24pm.

>It's who the johns are

Exactly correct. Here in East TN they're called loyal GOP voters.

OK

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 12:05pm.

I'm going to try this again.

Better enforcement of misguided laws will not help.

In Tennessee, we look at prostitution as a "victimless crime," with both john and prostitute at equal risk for prosecution. Penalties for both are minimal. But if we look at it as Sweden does, as a crime of violence against women (similar to rape or assault), then the john faces real criminal consequences and the prostitute has a real chance at getting out of the lifestyle.

"But if we look at it as

Submitted by Beau (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 12:40pm.

"But if we look at it as Sweden does, as a crime of violence against women (similar to rape or assault), then the john faces real criminal consequences and the prostitute has a real chance at getting out of the lifestyle."

Great idea. And we should do the same thing with drugs. Right?

drug laws

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 1:17pm.

Actually, Sweden's drug laws are pretty restictive. Try again.

Good. Let's get some

Submitted by Beau (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 1:32pm.

Good. Let's get some restrictive drugs laws too. Most of the hookers are drug addicts. Arrest them and get them off the streets. You all talk a good game. But you aren't serious and that is why you have to live with this. Talk isn't the walk. As long as you are soft on drugs you get hookers and Johns. Low rent Johns at that. You all are part of the problem.

Hey

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 1:47pm.

You're the one who brought up drug laws. The thing about the Swedish model is that it's tough on the johns but provides services for the prostitutes to get them off the streets. Bottom line is, it costs money (just like anything else).

Whatever. (link...) More than

Submitted by Beau (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 3:32pm.

Whatever.

(link...)

More than 60 percent of males arrested last year for crimes – felonies and misdemeanors – tested positive for drug use, according to a White House study of arrest data from 10 large cities. For some cities, that surpassed 80 percent.

How many hookers are drug free? You all want to have your pot and whatnot thinking it is a victimless crime. There are no victimless crimes.

Maybe someday you all will get that.

Beau

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 3:34pm.

Read what I wrote. Sweden does not consider prostitution to be a victimless crime. The john is the perpetrator and the prostitute is the victim. Jail for the john, treatment for the victim. That's the simple version. And it has the marvelous quality of working.

hmmm

Submitted by alan swartz on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 3:56pm.

Barker, are drugs a victimless crime? In your opinion? Since opinions are your job.

prostitution

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 4:05pm.

We're talking about prostitution in this thread, alan, and I'd rather not see that it gets hijacked. But to answer your question, most drug crimes are not victimless. Now, let's talk about prostitution. Do you think johns ought to be charged with misdemeanors or even felonies for exploiting prostitutes?

I think the law today says

Submitted by alan swartz on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 4:29pm.

I think the law today says charge both prostitutes and johns. I see no problem with the law today except it should be more than a misdemeanors.

yes

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 4:35pm.

Yes, you are correct in your diagnosis. I'm not sure about your cure.

In America, we tend to view the encounter of john and prostitute to be a business transaction between consenting adults, albeit one that is against the law. In Sweden, they view it as an act of aggression perpetrated by the john upon the prostitute. Victims, no matter how impaired, are not responsible legally for crimes committed against them.

Under the Swedish model, it doesn't matter whether the prostitute is addicted to drugs. What matters is the exploitation of that prostitute by the john. He goes to jail. But Sweden takes it a step further and requires treatment for the prostitute as well (if that's what she needs).

Under the Swedish model the suburban dad who gets caught indulging his fantasies with a crack-addicted prostitute at Broadway and Central goes to jail for a few months (probably losing his job and his family along the way, but, hey, it's all about personal choice), while the addicted prostitute goes into treatment and counseling so she doesn't return to the streets. Both prostitution and drug abuse are addressed.

Explain this failure of a

Submitted by EricLykins on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 12:38am.

You all want to have your pot and whatnot thinking it is a victimless crime.

Explain this failure of a worldview to the 50,000 Mexicans that have been killed in the last six years since they got "tougher" on drugs.

"Explain this failure of a

Submitted by Beau (not verified) on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 8:32am.

"Explain this failure of a worldview to the 50,000 Mexicans that have been killed in the last six years since they got "tougher" on drugs."

And your solution? Make drugs legal? You can't hardly find people to work blue color jobs around here that can pass a drug test for oxy/roxy. And you want everybody to be high?

What is it with you people?

Done

Submitted by Nelle on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 1:06pm.

I appreciate you raising the issue, but there are a bunch of neighborhood groups and watches in North Knoxville. They're the ones raising the issue. But they can't fix it alone.

The focus needs to be on the men. If the demand weren't there, the "supply" wouldn't either.

But KPD rarely targets the men.

KPD

Submitted by Jamie Satterfield on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 1:12pm.

Actually KPD targets both. I've been on their prostitution stings as a reporter. They first do a sweep for the women and then replace them with female undercover cops to go after the men. The problem is these are misdemeanor offenses with little or no penalty. And, frankly, KPD only does these stings when neighborhoods start complaining. Listen to a scanner, however, and you'll see why: KPD is pretty darn busy.

Who's targeted

Submitted by Nelle on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 4:26pm.

Thanks for your first-hand account. That's interesting info.

But I didn't say that KPD fails to target the men. I said they rarely do it.

I say that based on some info I gathered a few years ago when I served on a small group that was discussing solutions to prostitution problems in North Knoxville.

The data we saw from KPD showed many more arrests of women than of men. If they're targeting men more often now, that's great news.

The women need help. The men need to face serious penalties.

Why do we only see the

Submitted by Pam Strickland on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 8:15pm.

Why do we only see the women's pictures in the paper? That really tics me off. We never see the johns pictures in the paper whenever the KNS does a story on prostitution. That makes absolutely no sense to me. If it takes both to do the cringe, then both should bear the brunt of the publicity.

Yes

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 2:09pm.

The Swedish model addresses that. It criminalizes the mens' actions while providing social services to the women.

Sweden

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Fri, 2012/05/18 - 10:14am.

The Swedes view prostitution as a crime of violence against women. The Swedish model criminalizes patronization (six months in jail for johns) and provides social services for women engaged in prostitution to address the reasons for their participation (drug addiction, poverty, etc.). The law was passed in 1999 and almost immediately there was a 40 percent drop in street prostitution.

Neighborhoods

Submitted by Mike Cohen on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 7:53am.

Every city, including Knoxville, needs people who help reclaim neighborhoods. It's a critical process, especially to the center city. And people who manage cities anywhere--from Knoxville to Stockholm--will tell you the city center is critical.

Telling someone that choosing a neighborhood was a bad choice so live with crime is crazy. Bat shit crazy. Get rid of those folks and there is no fabulous 4th and Gill, as one small example.

Where people invest and choose to live is where government has to go enforce the laws.

What in the world?

Submitted by Tess on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 6:30pm.

I hate myself for replying to your comment, but why on earth would you think there is "hate" for Fourth and Gill?

I know that my replying to you is like poking a snapping turtle with a stick but am curious why you would "think" that.

Great Plan!

Submitted by fischbobber on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 3:06pm.

That should work at least as well as throwing people in jail for smoking marijuana.

We can use the money that we should be using to deal with the root causes of poverty on crime and punishment!

Come on dude. Seriously?

Unfortunate times

Submitted by fischbobber on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 3:40pm.

Following Mayor Rogero's budget process this week has put most of the local issues in a somewhat skewed perspective this week. I find myself vacillating between sympathy for her budgetary plights, anger at previous mayors for kicking the can down the road until the problems got to the point where all else would be secondary and wondering how we're going to deal with the cities very real problems.

Foot and bicycle patrols by the police department would likely have the same effect as punishing johns. I do think arrests are called for, particularly with the popularity of that "Busted" tabloid that seems to be everywhere. It will still cost money that isn't there, but it would likely be cost effective and may well help build a stronger sense of community if instituted properly.

Just a thought.

sex offender registry

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 3:32pm.

Adding solicitation of prostitution to the list of offenses that get someone put on the sex offender registry certainly would be an option. And it likely would dissuade a lot of people from patronizing prostitutes. No market, no business (though I'm not naive enough to believe it would eradicate the world's oldest profession). It follows the Swedish model of punishing johns and can be done without adding mandatory jail time. All it takes is a bill passed in the Legislature.

The other side of the Swedish coin is providing social services to the prostitutes so they can address the reasons they started selling themselves. In many cases, that would be participating in a drug treatment program.

On a side note, while looking at the sex offender registry offenses, I found that promoting prostitution (pimping) is not among them.

You guys are wasting you

Submitted by Nickn3 (not verified) on Sat, 2012/05/19 - 5:03pm.

You guys are wasting you time. Make it legal like most of the rest of the modern world and move on.

Thanks Barker

Submitted by Treehouse on Mon, 2012/05/21 - 9:50am.

I appreciate your comments about the Swedish manner of dealing with prostitution. It is abuse against women and is a crime. The men should be prosecuted, have their picture in the paper, and pay penalties for this crime.

I think I would prefer more

Submitted by cafkia on Mon, 2012/05/21 - 12:14pm.

I think I would prefer more of a Nevada style thing. Have privately owned brothels that are state inspected and are not in areas above a certain population density. Then increase the penalty for being a street john significantly.

brothels

Submitted by Barker (not verified) on Mon, 2012/05/21 - 1:54pm.

Consigning prostitution to well-regulated brothels sounds good in theory, but in Europe, where prostitution is legal in almost every country and well regulated in many, the record doesn't support it in at least one especially heinous way - human trafficking. I'm by no means an expert on this, but the few articles I've read estimate the number of women seized and sent to supply Europe's sex trade is in the six figures every year. One UN report I read estimates that one in seven prostitutes in Europe is the victim of trafficking. Some are kidnapped. Others are threatened. In Nigeria, traffickers scare women with voodoo (no kidding). Here in Knoxville we recently had a case of human trafficking targeting Latino women - imagine the perils of being an undocumented prostitute in the United States. Prostitution exploits women. Period.

You're not a woman, are you?

Submitted by Treehouse on Mon, 2012/05/21 - 1:04pm.

Being raped for money is bad. Congress doesn't seem to care either since it won't pass the Violence Against Women Act because it might include bad people like prostitutes.

There are now escort services

Submitted by GFE (not verified) on Fri, 2012/07/13 - 4:14am.

There are now escort services operating in the area, which makes the problem even more complex and difficult to solve. I hope we get back on the right track...

escort agency

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