Fri
Jan 27 2012
06:43:am
North side needs help with homeless problem
By: bizgrrl  shortURL

Business owners and residents met with City Council members and police at the Time Warp Tea Room on North Central to discuss the homeless problem on the North side of town.

they're tired of the loitering, spent condoms, old needles and other problems linked to vagrants in the area

"Yesterday, I ran into four guys at a picnic table drinking a quart of beer, I told them to get ... up and get out of here," said Darrell Dalton, owner of The Original Freezo on North Central Street for 15 years. "Next thing you know, I got a confrontation on my property."

"I live up around the corner, and I don't let children play in the front yard without an adult," [Knox County 2nd District Commissioner Amy ] Broyles said.

According to the report, the problem is not an easy one to resolve. KPD says they will add more patrols in the area. Some said more partnerships between the city, service providers and the neighborhoods would help. A meeting with Mayor Madeline Rogero was suggested.

This problem is not new. Is it possible to fix? Has any city of this size been able to correct this type of problem? Should KPD assign someone full-time to address the issues?

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kag's picture

I live on Grainger, and we

Submitted by kag on Fri, 2012/01/27 - 7:28am.

I live on Grainger, and we had seen some improvement in the past three years with the inappropriate behavior by folks up and down our street and behind (on the greenway), but in recent months it's far worse again. It's a real shame that our house is on a street with real sidewalks and a large, beautiful park right behind us, but the behavior of men (mostly) wandering around and loitering means that my 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter are not comfortable walking anywhere or going to the park without an adult with them.

Bbeanster's picture

I attended that meeting and

Submitted by Bbeanster on Sat, 2012/01/28 - 9:59am.

I attended that meeting and have lived in Oakwood for 30 years. It's easy, but not accurate to blame every North Knoxville problem on the homeless.

North Central has always had a prostitution issue, or has for at least as long as I've been around. There was a well-known, and evidently quite successful, whorehouse -- called the Ponderosa --that ran wide-open there for years and years. Some of the hookers are probably homeless, but I'd be willing to bet that most of them aren't, and that drugs are a bigger issue here.

And while Darrell Dalton has trouble with the homeless, probably half his complaints had to do with the FISH pantry, which draws hundreds of people to the neighborhood with Tuesday/Thursday food giveaways and provides no restroom facilities. A few blocks north, there's a church that does the same thing, on different days. Church people all over Knox County make themselves feel good by giving money to these kinds of operations, leaving others to deal with the unintended consequences. The simplest solution to this problem would be to de-centralize the food distribution centers and not overrun any one neighborhood. And have restrooms.

And finally, numerous people said the problem has gotten worse in the past year. The Ten Year Plan was killed off exactly a year ago. Coincidence?

metulj's picture

But. But. BUt. that's where

Submitted by metulj on Fri, 2012/01/27 - 10:28am.

But. But. BUt. that's where all the homeless people come from so that's the best place for them and there's services there and um OH LOOK PONIES!!!!!!

fischbobber's picture

The solution

Submitted by fischbobber on Fri, 2012/01/27 - 10:54pm.

is not going to be to put the homeless in a hole without sidewalks or bus service again, is it?

metulj's picture

No. It's to provide them with

Submitted by metulj on Fri, 2012/01/27 - 11:04pm.

No. It's to provide them with access to housing.

fischbobber's picture

Housing

Submitted by fischbobber on Fri, 2012/01/27 - 11:15pm.

is only the tip of the iceberg. Unless root causes of homelessness are identified and dealt with, the problem will not simply go away with a roof and a bed.

I doubt the exhibitionist would have been happy with a mirror.

Before we go at it again, I wish to re-extend my invitation to you to sit down over a beer and walk the area at Teaberry so I can show and tell both my problems with and solutions to the site issues. We may have more in common than you think.

Robert Finley's picture

Just out of purely idle curiosity,...

Submitted by Robert Finley on Sat, 2012/01/28 - 1:00am.

...who the hell, besides you, is talking about developing any more rental housing at Teaberry than's already there?

The beer, I'm up for that anytime.

fischbobber's picture

Teaberry

Submitted by fischbobber on Sat, 2012/01/28 - 11:30pm.

The problem with Teaberry was not the location of the site, it was the integration of infrastructure and services of the site into the neighborhood dynamic. That problem doesn't change just because one changes neighborhoods. The Haslam years left the city with no real plan to connect neighborhoods with greenways and sidewalks. The "positions" that the administration took generally failed to consider the long term outlook for the residents of an area. "You can always move" was the overriding philosophy.

The homeless, just like the homefilled, are going to have their share of scumbags. Rich people beat their wives too. If the problem is going to be addressed in a manner that is expected to produce results we must dedicate ourselves to mainstream problems and not the problem be defined by the people on the fringe. The percentage of homeless that are exhibitionists is likely about the same as it is across any other general demographic. (Feel free to correct me) Why would we let a general population be defined by an abstract in a standard deviation?

At the risk of sounding like I'm advocating a gypsy lifestyle, my unqualified position is this, if we provide access and mobility to the city and county as a whole to citizens via greenways and sidewalks, then we spread out everyone and all of the city can share in both problems and solutions. All of the sudden Boy Scout Troup 69 adopts Fred. He's the one homeless guy behind the church, not the fifty camping out by the creek.

Rachel's picture

The percentage of homeless

Submitted by Rachel on Sun, 2012/01/29 - 4:25pm.

The percentage of homeless that are exhibitionists is likely about the same as it is across any other general demographic.

I have no idea what the statistics are, but I do know that in the 15 years I've lived in this house, I've seen exactly one guy exposing himself in the neighborhood (well, not counting the kid who peed in the alley during Halloween, but his intent was to pee, not to expose, and he tried to hide behind a car).

That person wasn't homeless, or one of the grifters who come through here. It was the guy who lived across the street. He exposed himself on a regular basis for quite awhile, until his wife kicked him out. Then I guess he moved on to doing it in other places.

vernon's picture

they have access to housing,

Submitted by vernon on Sat, 2012/01/28 - 9:16am.

they have access to housing, its called a job-what some don t get is that housing is not their top priority-what is the top priority to most is to be sustained to be free to drink and do drugs.More unearned free services-food , shelter, medical, and now housing will not solve the problem-have we not learned this by now?
Would the offer of building free housing for "homeless" cause more homeless to come to the area? It has in other areas.

Shut down the service providers and the homeless problem will be solved quickly.

metulj's picture

Loudon County represent!

Submitted by metulj on Sat, 2012/01/28 - 9:44am.

Loudon County represent!

JHayes's picture

It's sick

Submitted by JHayes on Fri, 2012/01/27 - 10:40am.

About two years ago, I went to the Honky Tonk Bar over in Happy Holler for one of their karaoke nights. When I was leaving, a man (about 50 or so) exposed himself to me and my wife.

I saw some of the complaints in the News Sentinel and no business or homeowner should have to worry about the safety of their lives at work or in their front yard.

Commissioner Broyles, a well-known staunch advocate for helping the homeless, even was quoted in the article as saying she's scared for her kids to be in the front yard.

To me, this isn't a Republican or Democrat issue, its a real human issue and needs to be again on the forefront of Mayor Rogero's agenda. It's a tough issue and I believe the solution can be found, eventually.

redmondkr's picture

Shut down the service

Submitted by redmondkr on Sat, 2012/01/28 - 11:23am.

Shut down the service providers and the homeless problem will be solved quickly.

How Republican!

If we do away with Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, all the consumers of those services will probably just go away too.

Up Goose Creek's picture

Irony

Submitted by Up Goose Creek on Sat, 2012/01/28 - 6:38pm.

I wonder how many of the people complaining about the homeless live in renovated homes or apartments that housed the destitute a few years or decades ago? North Central Village was a flophouse known as the Greystone not too very long ago.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

Pam Strickland's picture

I've started to reply to this

Submitted by Pam Strickland on Sun, 2012/01/29 - 1:01am.

I've started to reply to this thread several times, and then changed my mind. When I first read the headline on the knoxnews.com site, I was doing my once a week afternoon at St. James Episcopal Church on Broadway volunteering with the Doorstep ministry. I quipped to another person in the church office that we were probably giving sack lunches to the folks that the businesses on Central were complaining about.

I don't know what the answer is. Oh, I have some ideas, but I know how things get shot down here and else where and I'm not in the mood for all that throwing rocks back and forth. I know from my studying of the statistics that there's a real need. And I know from answering the door at the church some of the details, the humanity, of that need. I'd advise everybody to spend a few hours dealing face to face with some of the needs: Gas to take a child to the doctor, money to pay a utility bill, help with tent because an injury meant no work, food because they are only eligible for $30 in food stamps, clothes for a job interview (our church runs a career clothes closet for women). It will humble you. It will make you realize exactly how much people really do need help and it will make you want to help more.

metulj's picture

There is need, but then there

Submitted by metulj on Sun, 2012/01/29 - 10:43am.

There is need, but then there are the exploiters: those who take advantage of the system and those who take advantage of those who are in need. There is no reliable way to sort out who because of the subjectivity of it all.

Pam Strickland's picture

There is a great deal of

Submitted by Pam Strickland on Sun, 2012/01/29 - 9:50pm.

There is a great deal of subjectivity. And much depends on gut reactions and a great deal of detective work. But nonetheless there are people who need help and they are children of God. They are the ones the Jesus said to do unto the least among you about. Church is a verb. We are directed to do, not to be. I can't sit on my hands and wait because the decisions and choices are hard. It is precisely because those decisions and choices are hard that I must do something.

Somebody's picture

There is need, but then there

Submitted by Somebody on Mon, 2012/01/30 - 1:06pm.

There is need, but then there are the exploiters: those who take advantage of the system and those who take advantage of those who are in need. There is no reliable way to sort out who because of the subjectivity of it all.

...and thus the need for organizations who make it their work to try to sort it out as best as can be done, and perhaps beyond that, some sort of plan or organizational effort to get those agencies, organizations, churches and ministries to coordinate with one another, so that they don't undermine each other's efforts and perhaps even figure out how to make their limited resources go farther, perhaps toward agreed upon goals that lead to more solutions and fewer band-aids. What a novel idea.

Or, you could just outlaw charity here, and people who are in need can either go somewhere else or just die, whichever is more convenient.

metulj's picture

My post was one of

Submitted by metulj on Mon, 2012/01/30 - 3:02pm.

My post was one of exasperation. The trouble with "knowing" homelessness in Knoxville is that it is almost impossible to discern the needy from the providers from the exploiters. I'd love to see someone unpack just what KARM is. It's needy. It provides. It exploits. Same could go for a homeless person. That person needs, provides, and exploits.

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