Mon
Jan 25 2010
12:02 pm

Knoxville City Council will vote tomorrow night on an amendment to the Veteran's Cemetery land swap deal that would provide for development of permanent supportive housing for the homeless at the Lakeshore property.

Amendment 16 from the resolution:

The City agrees to use the park area for public recreational purposes as a public park and may use up to five acres of the Property for other public purposes, including permanent supportive housing, provided, the five (5) acres may not be used for purposes which generate significant noise or sound and the City agrees to provide reasonable security for said use.

Readers may recall that Council members Joe Bailey and Marilyn Roddy both supported a South Knoxville homeless housing development at Flenniken School last year, and said they would welcome such a development in Sequoyah Hills where they live. Looks like they could get their wish.

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bizgrrl's picture

For some reason I didn't

For some reason I didn't know Lakeshore was still in use for psychiatric services.

CathyMcCaughan's picture

Except there is a locking

Except there is a locking gate between Lakeshore and the Sequoyah homes. Lakeshore is a hospital, not a home.

Anonymously Nine's picture

perfect

"Except there is a locking gate between Lakeshore and the Sequoyah homes. Lakeshore is a hospital, not a home."

Something good happens but it is ideologically incorrect according to some.

Are you seriously saying you oppose this?

metulj's picture

Again, why is this any

Again, why is this any better than alternatives?

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Anonymously Nine's picture

.

"Again, why is this any better than alternatives?"

We call it ROI. Quick way to save half a million dollars. Why purchase land if you already have land?

metulj's picture

The city owns land all over

The city owns land all over the county though. Why there?

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Stick's picture

Or...

Why not there?

metulj's picture

The converse as well...

Sure, but I think it is always the case that #9 has an ulterior motivation for his 'advocacy.' He says it should happen, but doesn't say 'why.'

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Stick's picture

OK

I'll buy that too!

Anonymously Nine's picture

reading is fundamental

He says it should happen, but doesn't say 'why.'

Actually, "he" has given many reasons.

Why should it not happen, Toby? Let's hear from you for once.

(link...)

(link...)

(link...)

CathyMcCaughan's picture

Because it's not a

Because it's not a neighborhood. How can someone become an active member of a community that doesn't exist?

Stick's picture

OK

I'll buy that... Thinking about the geography of the area, that makes sense. Thanks.

bizgrrl's picture

Except that there is not

Except that there is not much of a community around Debusk Lane or Flenniken either. Flenniken more so than Debusk but Flenniken is struggling heavily now as it is.

CathyMcCaughan's picture

Those weren't ideal either,

Those weren't ideal either, but they were not surrounded by security gates and directly next door to destabilized patients and forensic patients awaiting trial. Are we talking about halfway housing that serves people until they are ready to step into the community or are we talking about a permanent home for people who just need supports to function in the community?

Bill Lyons's picture

Clarification of conditions regarding use

This amendment clears up uncertainty in the conditions regarding acceptable use that accompany the conveyance of the land from the State to the City. The language in the 1999 agreement was not at all clear on this point. We thought it important to make sure that this location could in fact be considered for permanent supportive housing. Obviously this just gets the legality of the use established; there is no specific plan in place at present. Any plan that might follow will be first publicly discussed and vetted. Thanks.

edens's picture

"They were not surrounded by

"They were not surrounded by security gates and directly next door to destabilized patients and forensic patients awaiting trial."

Or well-traveled walking trails and one of the most heavily used parks in the entire city...

But, by all means, allow the Hutch machine to turn this into a wedge issue to peel off Farragut support for Burchett.

CathyMcCaughan's picture

If I talk about Lakeshore as

If I talk about Lakeshore as more than a walking trail I'm endorsing one of the annoying boys? Mmkay then.

Anonymously Nine's picture

first nimby

"But, by all means, allow the Hutch machine to turn this into a wedge issue to peel off Farragut support for Burchett."

That is so very silly even for you. You been drinking the Toby Kool Aid?

The purpose for Lake Shore, formally known as Eastern State, which predated anything in that area, was for a site for the mentally ill. It even has a deed restriction to that effect. This is using the land that is already paid for, for the purpose it was set aside for. If the mentally ill homeless are safe enough to put right next to a Day Care for little children, they are safe enough to be on the walking trails at Lake Shore.

This is near the bus route and within safe walking distance on sidewalks to food and medicine. It even provides employment opportunities to maintain the parks and walking trails.

Are you alleging these mentally ill homeless people are not safe enough to be in the general population? And by the way, none of the Mayoral candidates have uttered a word about this so you are the one making a wedge issue where none exists.

Are you the first nimby for this Edens?

metulj's picture

Sigh. True happiness is

Sigh.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Anonymously Nine's picture

not there

"Sigh."

I see you redacted your nimby screed about protecting the Sequoyah Hills folk Toby.

What Toby wrote and quickly redacted was his questions about bus service and walking distance to food and medicine.

Why Toby? Did you look at a map and see how silly that was?

One block to the convenience store Toby, and they serve hot food. Three city blocks to the Walgreens, Burger King, and Friday's. Is that close enough?

Look at the Nimby's come out of the woodwork. Edens lives in Maryland and Toby lives in North Knoxville. What some of this is, is reverse Nimbism. In other words, some people want this to be in Farragut to get even for some perceive social ills. Social reparations. That doesn't help the patients folks.

What I care about is the treatment of the homeless mentally ill patients and the cost to the taxpayers. Cathy could care less about the cost as long as it achieves some social engineering goals. In other words, putting it in far West Knoxville.

Lake Shore is in West Knoxville people. At least according to the News Sentinel.

metulj's picture

Screed? Now you are making

Screed? Now you are making up posts that people made? Classy. Just another Hutchison wedge issue, right? Get all of the LULUs pissed and then have Hutchison start asking questions like "Why doesn't Tim Burchett come out in support of PSH at Lakeshore?" Man, you guys are so obvious.

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Anonymously Nine's picture

must protect Sequoyah Hills

"Just another Hutchison wedge issue, right? Get all of the LULUs pissed and then have Hutchison start asking questions like "Why doesn't Tim Burchett come out in support of PSH at Lakeshore?"

So to stop this idea you will invoke the evil Tim Hutchison Toby? Can you work Scott Moore into the mix? George Bush too?

The ultimate progressive Nimby response. Only problem is, can you find anywhere that Hutchison has even mentioned Lake Shore? Start parsing Professor.

The bigger question is, what will Ray Abbas do? Will the ACLU be called in?

Isn't it odd that the most logical site with the most advantageous services and the lowest costs is just not good enough for some people?

What will you do when Tim Burchett endorses this idea Toby? He is being asked to. Hard to stop a movement Toby. Even by evoking evil spirits.

Will you stand up in City Council tonight to protest?

metulj's picture

So you are shilling for

So you are shilling for Hutchison?

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metulj's picture

Ding. Ding. Ding. True

Ding. Ding. Ding.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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edens's picture

Nimby? Nine, I observed that

Nimby?

Nine, I observed that lakeshore was the elephant in the room with regards to the homeless long before you even started paying attention:

(link...)

I'm mildly annoyed that you've taken the issue and run with it, but that hardly makes me a nimby. Not that facts matter to you. Or the homeless. So, feel free to trump this up in order to tee up your boy - again:

(link...)

Anonymously Nine's picture

Uh, no.

"I'm mildly annoyed that you've taken the issue and run with it"

Edens, how in the world can you claim this is my idea? Eastern State was established in 1886.

A common sense approach to a problem is all this is. And a lot of people had the same idea. Including people in the Ten Year Plan. You and Toby have been watching too much Fox News. Karl Rove is not behind every tree.

edens's picture

Did I say it was your idea?

Did I say it was your idea? You saw the angle, that's all. But, please, let's quit pretending this grift has got anything to do with actual housing for the homeless.

edens's picture

Look at the Nimby's come out

Look at the Nimby's come out of the woodwork.

Hmmm, maybe you really are too dense to realize my line about "well-traveled walking trails and one of the most heavily used parks in the entire city..." was a poking fun at Cathy's assertion that there's no "community" at lakeshore.

bizgrrl's picture

Yeah, that's what I thought

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant.

Tess's picture

I am not dense

And, since you live in the state of Maryland, and have no stake in the argument, I am not sure why you are so shrill about it, Edens.

metulj's picture

Physician, heal thyself. You

Physician, heal thyself.

You need to pay attention to the back room game getting played on these issues.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Tess's picture

a game?

A game is it? I have no idea what you are talking about.

metulj's picture

Read the thread.... True

Read the thread....

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Tess's picture

I did

You and Edens want Lakeshore to be the west knox site for housing for the homeless. The county wants to move the veteran's cemetary to the grounds, and the state wants to keep the criminally insane incarcerated there.

Seems like the park part is going south quickly.

metulj's picture

So you didn't read the

So you didn't read the thread.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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edens's picture

One block to the convenience

One block to the convenience store Toby, and they serve hot food. Three city blocks to the Walgreens, Burger King, and Friday's. Is that close enough?

(link...)

A mile and a half through that kind of traffic to walk to Walmart for groceries isn't for the faint of heart. I don't think anyone expects people to go to the convenience mart and live off Slim Jims and Vienna Sausages. There are few sidewalks in this area and public safety to the homeless residents will be an issue. Pretty dumb location.

Stop pretending.

Anonymously Nine's picture

come on now

"Stop pretending."

Huh? Lake Shore is almost the opposite of Debusk Lane in terms of traffic safety and proximity to food and medicine.

I know you don't live here anymore Edens but the convenience store down from Lake Shore serves breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And it is good food and relatively inexpensive.

Do you have a point here? Most people reading have no idea what you referenced. The second quote you reference is about Debusk Lane, not Lake Shore. As a professional writer shouldn't you take care to be more clear?

Ham and Goodies is across the street from the convenience store. There are job opportunities all around this area including Burger King, Buddy's BBQ, and Sonic within close walking distance.

Why are you so against this?

metulj's picture

Man, the lengths you will go

Man, the lengths you will go for your man, Tim. Convenience store food? That's supportive housing? And you are trying to hang this on Burchett?

Let me guess. You are going to try and hang the East Knoxville development in the other thread on Burchett as well.

Folks, this is how the pro-Hutch forces are arraying. Burchett in a landslide.

As for me, I am writing starting a write-in campaign for a one of the homeless folks downtown. Now which one? Hrm. What about the ethics of that? It's really no more exploitative than what #9 is up to.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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edens's picture

Lake Shore is almost the

Lake Shore is almost the opposite of Debusk Lane in terms of traffic safety and proximity to food and medicine.

So convenience store food is okay at Lakeshore but verboten at DeBusk? There are no sidewalks along much of that section of Northshore, btw (I used to work there - walked to that very convenience store pretty regularly...)

Burger King and Walgreens are a mile from Lakeshore, across a section of Kingston Pike that carries about 30,000 cars a day. It's 16,000 for that stretch of Northshore, and 15,000 for Lyon's View - which has no sidewalks, either. And Sonic? Seriously? It's a toss up whether the one in Bearden's closer to Lakeshore than the one at Lovell Road is to DeBusk.

In other words, besides one being a thumpin' good wedge issue against the Silk Stocking Crowd, both sites are surprisingly similar.

But, please, keep pretending.

metulj's picture

You don't live here! You be

You don't live here! You be quiet! :)

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Anonymously Nine's picture

misdirection nimbyism

Joe Bailey and Marilyn Roddy are on the record saying they would welcome a PSH in their area. I expect City Council to stand tall and affirm this proposal tonight.

The arguments you are alleging are not honest. I am surprised with your actions. It is one thing to be obsessed with me, quite another to penalize people who need help over your strange perceived politics.

metulj's picture

Drive that wedge. Timmy's

Drive that wedge. Timmy's got a job for you waiting when this is all over!

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Stimulating the economy as best we can!

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Anonymously Nine's picture

NO

"In other words, besides one being a thumpin' good wedge issue against the Silk Stocking Crowd, both sites are surprisingly similar."

That simply isn't true Edens. These two sites are very dissimilar. If the people of Knox County cannot agree on Permanent Supportive Housing at Lake Shore then we all have a serious problem. I am truly amazed at your deception.

I know you don't know much about either area. There are sidewalks on the majority of the east side of South Northshore from Lyon's Bend to Kingston Pike. You can see them on Google Maps. The small distance without a sidewalk has an eight foot side median on South Northshore compared to an eighteen inch median on Kingston Pike near Debusk Lane. It is much different to walk on South Northshore than it is on Kingston Pike in West Knoxville past Pellissipp Parkway. It simply isn't honest to make the comparison you allege and you should be ashamed to play deceptive wedge politics on this.

The people that need help need a place where there can be part of a community. I can think of no better place than the most popular walking path in the entire county. What could be better?

If the people at Cherokee County Club have a problem with this they can give their opinion at the public meetings where this will be vetted.

Bill Lyons's picture

Council approval

After extensive discussion and deliberation, Council just approved both the purchase of the site for the Veterans' cemetery and the land swap for Lakeshore, including the language clarifying the potential use for permanent supportive housing, each by 9-0 votes.

Anonymously Nine's picture

.

"After extensive discussion and deliberation, Council just approved both the purchase of the site for the cemetery and the land swap for Lakeshore, including the language clarifying the potential use for permanent supportive housing, each by 9-0 votes."

Thank you Bill.

metulj's picture

Oh, wait. So this wasn't an

Oh, wait. So this wasn't an issue in the county mayor's race in the first place? It was the city council that had to rule on it? [sarcasm]*smacks forehead*[/sarcasm] That's great. So, if #9 keeps lowing about this it can ONLY be that he is trying to MAKE it an issue. Now why would some one do that?

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Anonymously Nine's picture

must protect Sequoyah Hills

"Oh, wait. So this wasn't an issue in the county mayor's race in the first place?"

It was never an issue in any political race. You clumsily and inarticulately attempted and failed to make it one. But that is on you.

The nice folks at Cherokee Country Club will have many public meetings to make their case. You can speak for them. Being a UT Professor and all.

Why are you trying to prevent a good plan for all from being considered Toby? What are you thinking?

metulj's picture

Bullshit. You insinuated

Bullshit. You insinuated Burchett into this way early. You are a joke. Let me guess: Burchett is pro-Midway development too. You are so easy to read. I think we see where Hutchison wants you to take this.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Anonymously Nine's picture

Uh, no.

"You insinuated Burchett into this way early."

Actually that was Edens that did that Toby.

You and Edens are the only people that have, as you say, "insinuated" politics into this at all.

Why Toby?

metulj's picture

Woof Woof.

Lapdog. It's obvious what you are up. Quit pretending.

BTW, I don't live in North Knoxville.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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edens's picture

BTW, I don't live in North

BTW, I don't live in North Knoxville.

Depends on whether the news story is positive or negative.

metulj's picture

Or if I happen to be wearing

Or if I happen to be wearing a hooded sweatshirt.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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bizgrrl's picture

Council just approved both

Council just approved both the purchase of the site for the Veterans' cemetery and the land swap for Lakeshore

Veterans concerned with French Broad site. With quarry next door, ... "We don't want people rattled out of their caskets."
...
another veteran, said he's heard the blasts from the quarry while visiting his daughter, who lives nearby.

"It sounds like a bomb went off sometimes," he said. "You can feel it in the ground.

Great place to initiate veteran flashbacks?

TN commissioner of veterans affairs holds meeting night before City Council votes on change of site for veterans cemetery expansion.

From KNS report on veterans meeting with TN commissioner of veterans affairs, "Why would you not consult veterans groups from the very beginning?" asked Ken Irvine, commander of Knoxville's American Legion Post 2. "We are the constituents of that cemetery."

The TN commissioner tells the veterans they can have a say, but if they don't go along with the proposed new site they won't have any money.

Veteran writes a letter to the editor of KNS:

Cemeteries usually are located on high ground, not to be closer to the heavens but to be out of an area where groundwater can seep into the graves.

The new proposed site is flat and spacious, but it is in a river bottom on low ground. The nearby rock quarry blasting can aggravate the ground water seepage issue.

I certainly feel for the veterans and others opposed to the land swap. Bigger is not always better.

edens's picture

I know you don't know much

I know you don't know much about either area.

Dude, I only worked at the corner of Northshore and Erin Drive for about five years. And walked that stretch of Northshore/been to that convenience store more than 100 times, but, whatever...

if the people at Cherokee County Club have a problem with this

Could you be any more obvious?

The people that need help need a place where there can be part of a community. I can think of no better place than the most popular walking path in the entire county.

And then you have the balls to turn around and rip off my own snark? Wow. Just, wow...

Anonymously Nine's picture

yeah, right

Oh your precious snark. You use it to speak on both sides of the issue. You snark that it is a good idea. Then you write it is only for a political wedge issue for evil incarnate so people should be against it.

Which is it?

It looks like you and Toby and Cathy, of course, are the only people against this. Whatever. There will be public meetings where you can publicly speak on both sides of the issue.

It is a great idea and a great location. The first step has been taken.

metulj's picture

I never said I was against

I never said I was against it. I just want to know why it is an appropriate place for PSH. It appears that it isn't other than meeting some sort of criteria for you that works politically.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Anonymously Nine's picture

.

"I never said I was against it. I just want to know why it is an appropriate place for PSH."

You never said why you are for it. Apparently you and Edens feel none of these places are appropriate places for PSH. But since you both play games by speaking to both sides of the issue, who can tell?

Blinded by perceived politics?

Question for both of you. What will you say if all three of the County Mayoral candidates support Lake Shore for PSH?

Lake Shore is a good idea and a better location. Why be so negative?

metulj's picture

I never said I was for it

I never said I was for it either. Keep trying.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Anonymously Nine's picture

Ummm,

"I never said I was for it either."

I think is is clear you are not for Lake Shore for PSH. We can nuance Toby.

metulj's picture

I am always amazed at your

I am always amazed at your butchery of the English language. Stop using words when you don't know how to use them.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Robert Finley's picture

It's a good potential site because...

Our position has long been that Lakeshore would be a good site for a permanent supportive housing development. It's fair to ask why. Here's a list:

1. The land is free. That's a big plus from a development perspective.

2. The zoning works. Lakeshore is zoned 0-2, which allows any use permitted in an R-2 district. R-2 permits multifamily developments.

3. Lakeshore's right on a regular bus line. Good access to public transportation is a very significant benefit to PSH residents because it maximizes independence.

4. Siting a PSH development at Lakeshore would be in step with the TYP's strategic aim of distributing supportive housing opportunities throughout the community.

Robert Finley
Ten-Year Plan
215-3071
(link...)

metulj's picture

I do think that KAT will

I do think that KAT will have to rejigger the 90A/B bus line though as it isn't frequent. Actually, a Lakeshore-to-Bearden trolley line might make the difference. The site is well away from meaningful services save #9's "Let Them Eat Little Debbies" solution.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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citizenX's picture

I AGREE

Its been a long time coming but Rob and I actually agree on something for a change.

I'm not sure about the part:

"Our position has long been that Lakeshore would be a good site for a permanent supportive housing development."

I recall when you did not feel that way. But thanks for finally coming around.

bizgrrl's picture

Now, I'm thinking about this

Now, I'm thinking about this and I could be wrong because I (luckily) have never been homeless, I'd rather live at the Lakeshore location. It's the prettiest of the three in discussion (Lakeshore, Debusk, Flenniken). I'd have to check on the distance for walking to stores, as well as check on sidewalks or decent roadside space. I'm guessing that existing public transportation is quite similar for Lakeshore and Flenniken.

edens's picture

Hmmm, is taking your own

Hmmm, is taking your own objections about DeBusk as a benchmark and applying them to Lakeshore objecting to homeless housing at lakeshore? Or merely pointing out your hypocritical political opportunism?

Curious that you're still trying to play the busted flush, though.

Rachel's picture

Curious that you're still

Curious that you're still trying to play the busted flush, though

It's what he does best - or most often, anyway.

Anonymously Nine's picture

.

"Curious that you're still trying to play the busted flush, though."

What will you say if/when all three of the County Mayoral candidates support Lake Shore for PSH?

edens's picture

What will you say if/when

What will you say if/when all three of the County Mayoral candidates support Lake Shore for PSH?

I'd say two things.

#1 Good for them

#2 Hutch'll need a new wedge issue

I see why you're still playing the busted flush, though. You don't think it's busted yet. But is it smart for you to bet it all on the river? (Hutch announces his support and calls on Burchett to do same in 3...2...1...)

As Finley said. The land is free. The zoning works. Plus there's the history of use. And, your willfully obtuse misinterpretation of my earlier comment aside, putting supportive adjacent to such a popular part sends a strong message that that it can coexist with community.

Transit wise, Toby, it's probably better then most places in Knoxville that have bus service. It's not a trunk line, so the service is hourly. But you're five minutes from the transfer station at Forest Park (and in the heart of Earth Fare/Kroger country). Fifteen minutes from West Town. Twenty minutes from UT. And twenty five minutes from the downtown transfer point. (which is only about 10 minutes slower than it took me, riding the #30 from Washington Ave. Which, btw, was about the only place you could take #30 without a transfer).

That said, a Bearden trolley that runs a racetrack around Kingston/Lyons view/Northshore is not a half-bad idea.

Anonymously Nine's picture

So, we can do it now?

So, we can do it now?

Bbeanster's picture

Actually, this will be an

Actually, this will be an issue for the mayor of Knoxville, not so much for the mayor of Knox County.

Anonymously Nine's picture

but we all knew that except for the twins

"Actually, this will be an issue for the mayor of Knoxville, not so much for the mayor of Knox County."

So much for the atomic wedgie issue.

edens's picture

Actually, this will be an

Actually, this will be an issue for the mayor of Knoxville, not so much for the mayor of Knox County.

True. But you don't need standing in order to grandstand.

bizgrrl's picture

That said, a Bearden trolley

That said, a Bearden trolley that runs a racetrack around Kingston/Lyons view/Northshore is not a half-bad idea.

Sounds like a great idea, expecially if the Sutherland/Forest Park area is included.

metulj's picture

An orbit along sutherland to

An orbit along sutherland to concord to kingston pike to northshore to lakeshore would be an interesting route. That would cover all of the shopping including Kroger, Earth Fare, Fresh Market, CVS, a couple of banks, the discount vegetable markets on Sutherland, the zoned high school, and could meet the orange line trolley or other bus lines.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

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Bbeanster's picture

it was just pointed out to

it was just pointed out to me that Ragsdale took TYP funding out of the most recent county budget. If that holds true for the FY 2011, his successor will have nothing to say about this at all.

Tess's picture

Interesting

I just tuned in. That is probably the most expensive undeveloped land in Knoxville owned by the municipality (city?)

Can't believe that the powers that be are going to develop it for "assisted living" or "temporary housing" or whatever they are calling it.

Lakefront property for homeless housing? I would be thrilled were I to be moved there as a homeless person, but the property is surrounded by people paying very high taxes for the same living space.

What is going on here?

journalist's picture

Mr. Finley Aced It

Our position has long been that Lakeshore would be a good site for a permanent supportive housing development. It's fair to ask why. Here's a list:

1. The land is free. That's a big plus from a development perspective.

2. The zoning works. Lakeshore is zoned 0-2, which allows any use permitted in an R-2 district. R-2 permits multifamily developments.

3. Lakeshore's right on a regular bus line. Good access to public transportation is a very significant benefit to PSH residents because it maximizes independence.

4. Siting a PSH development at Lakeshore would be in step with the TYP's strategic aim of distributing supportive housing opportunities throughout the community.

Four very fine reasons to locate the PSH at the Lakeshore location. The suggested $500,000 price tag of the DeBusk location seemed outrageously expensive, especially considering that the surrounding property values are far lower. By choosing Lakshore, the savings of $500,000 dollars will go a long way toward extended services for the homeless.

Also, as Tess pointed out, the Lakeshore location is a lovely area with a view of the lake (as opposed to the dark, heavily forested, sinkhole-ridden location in Lovell Heights [DeBusk]). For those of you who have never physically visited the DeBusk location in Lovell Heights, the property is quite dark and gloomy with little to no sunshine. Only a few spots of dappled light. When I read of that location, I wondered if the developers chose it because it was hidden.

Many homeless people have lived in darkness: mentally, emotionally, and physically. The Lakeshore location offers brightness, openness, and light; it is an inspiring choice.

Are we talking about halfway housing that serves people until they are ready to step into the community or are we talking about a permanent home for people who just need supports to function in the community?

This is a good point, one which I have never clearly understood. Mr. Finley, will you clarify?

edens's picture

I misspoke, Nine. Perhaps

I misspoke, Nine. Perhaps it wasn't time to fold after all.

bizgrrl's picture

This whole psh thing is

This whole psh thing is almost ridiculous. Is there really a TYP? Should plan be a part of the title?

Apparently there is no real planning going into site selection. It seems to be either, here someone has some land to dump, let's take it, or sure Lakeshore is great, let's take it.

I know, I know, I know, how about if they put some psh on the UT campus. Students can be used to assist with the housing needs, social workers, teachers, financial planners, etc.

Anonymously Nine's picture

.

"I know, I know, I know, how about if they put some psh on the UT campus. Students can be used to assist with the housing needs, social workers, teachers, financial planners, etc."

Are you suggesting the student apartments on Sutherland?

bizgrrl's picture

I was just kidding around

I was just kidding around about having psh actually on campus, but now that you mention it Golf Range wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm guessing the price UT would ask is waaayyy out of range for psh.

metulj's picture

The fat cat alumni are

The fat cat alumni are circling the Golf Range property like drunks around a pickled egg. No PSH at that site. Not that it isn't a good site (way better than Lakeshore), but that is UTVOLALUM Construction, Inc's land. Just ask them.

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Robert Finley's picture

Site selection

The TYP is real, and it calls for us to execute a strategy of producing new PSH distributed throughout the community, as stated on p.47, the first part of the Implementation Table at the end of the TYP document.

Apparently there is no real planning going into site selection.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. It's true that there is nothing like some kind of proactive, consolidated site selection/development plan being executed by someone who has the wherewithal to make it happen all at once. I'm not sure how you'd do that, except with land that is owned by the City or County and a developer with extremely deep pockets. If you could make something like that work, and the sites were good ones, a visionary approach like this would have a lot going for it. It'd sure be unique.

We have the capacity to develop one, maybe two facilities in a given year. We normally have to find sites on the real estate market same as everyone else. We look for land based on some common criteria, which I allude to above:

1. Cost of land needs to be reasonable based upon location.

2. Zoning needs to be appropriate for the intended use.

3. Access to public transportation is very important.

4. Safety and security of residents and case managers.

Those are the top four criteria we look at in a PSH site. There are other factors that would be nice attributes, but the above four are essential.

Robert Finley
Ten-Year Plan
215-3071
(link...)

Rachel's picture

I seems to me there's a bit

I seems to me there's a bit of disconnect in this thread.

Some folks seem to think that ALL PSH should be at Lakeshore. I THINK what TYP is talking about is using Lakeshore as only one of the sites.

Robert Finley's picture

Perish the thought.

Some folks seem to think that ALL PSH should be at Lakeshore.

I hope not. I've mentioned that elsewhere. Such a concentration would be a pretty sharp departure from the stated goal of developing PSH throughout the community.

Robert Finley
Ten-Year Plan
215-3071
(link...)

Anonymously Nine's picture

.

"I hope not. I've mentioned that elsewhere. Such a concentration would be a pretty sharp departure from the stated goal of developing PSH throughout the community."

Robert has been very clear that Lake Shore is a good location but not the only location. The five acres set aside at Lake Shore will be helpful in getting this back on track.

I agree with the four main criteria Robert has discussed.

1. Cost of land needs to be reasonable based upon location.

2. Zoning needs to be appropriate for the intended use.

3. Access to public transportation is very important.

4. Safety and security of residents and case managers.

The Debusk Lane proposal has been helpful in that it expanded the public discussion and allowed public input which turned out to be both helpful and constructive and has yielded a superior site at Lake Shore. Most will see that as progress.

Ron Peabody's picture

Ten Year Plan tries another West Knoxville site

WEST TOWN AREA ALERT!
PLAN ON ATTENDING

PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING
TO DISCUSS
THE PROPOSED 48 UNIT
PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT ON TEABERRY LANE

Thursday March 18th 2010, at 7:00PM
At the Arnstein Jewish Community Center
6800 Deane Hill Drive, Knoxville, TN 37919

Area Homeowners have asked Jon Lawler, Director of the 10 Year Plan to End Chronic Homelessness to discuss the proposed 48 Unit development of permanent supportive housing for chronically homeless disabled individuals* on Teaberry Lane off Gleason Road

This is a Public Meeting and our neighbors will have the opportunity to ask questions.

Gene Patterson from WATE will moderate the meeting.

* "The ADA defines disability as a “physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities” of an individual. Congress recently passed amendments to the ADA to emphasize that this is a broad definition intended to include obvious physical impairments such as paraplegia, blindness and deafness, as well as physical and mental impairments and conditions and diseases that may not be so apparent, such as diabetes, epilepsy, tuberculosis, AIDS, alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness (including depression, post-traumatic stress syndrome, and schizophrenia), developmental and intellectual disabilities, and learning disabilities.

For more information about the Ten Year Plan Go to: (link...)
For a definition of Supportive Housing please go to:
(link...)
and click on the CSH Definition of Supportive Housing link.

metulj's picture

Good to see West Knoxville

Good to see West Knoxville picking up the slack and being welcoming to a new community of people who need a place to live.

R. Neal's picture

Please continue conversation

Please continue conversation re. this at new post:

Public meeting re. proposed West Town area homeless supportive housing

Anonymously Nine's picture

Chronically homeless need supportive housing

Knox County faces competing moral and economic dilemmas of what to do with a growing homeless population and how to alleviate the expensive problem of jailing our homeless citizens and the chronically mentally ill.

metulj's picture

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