Jul 11 2017
10:30 am

Trump Jr. tweeted copies of emails exchanged with an intermediary who set up the meeting with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have dirt on Hillary:

Intermediary: Offers to arrange meeting between Trump Jr. and a "Russian government attorney" who can provide information that "would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump."

Trump Jr.: "If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer."

More at the New York Times...

Tamara Shepherd's picture


Wish I knew specifically how the statute applicable to collusion reads.

Is "trying to collude with" a foreign government the equivalent of "colluding with" them, for purpose of enforcement?

There's a pronounced whiff of traitorous behavior in just "trying," I think, but I'm guessing that intent alone doesn't suffice to prosecute, so we still need the goods.

We're continually almost there...

R. Neal's picture

I'd call it espionage.

I'd call it espionage.

R. Neal's picture

Trump Jr. statement said he

Trump Jr. statement said he released the emails to be transparent.

Some guy on CNN just said that's BS. Apparently the New York Times had the emails and contacted Trump Jr. for comment. Jr. told them to hold off and scrambed to post them himself before they did.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


I believe your link to the NYT story says the same thing: Jr didn't release apropos of nothing, it was NYT who gave him the heads-up that their release was imminent.

NYT was too polite to have waited for him to scramble.

EDIT: Yes, here it is--"After being told that The Times was about to publish the content of the emails, instead of responding to a request for comment, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted out images of them himself on Tuesday."

R. Neal's picture

Yes, must have skimmed over

Yes, must have skimmed over that. Wonder how they got the emails. Probably that Goldstone guy. Wonder if Mueller had them, or the FBI or other agencies, or any of the Congressional committees looking in to all this. Guess it doesn't matter because they all have them now.

Andy Axel's picture


to be transparent.

He's an idiot. CLEARLY.

bizgrrl's picture

I know there is no way it

I know there is no way it could happen, but I think we need a do over for the presidential election. I don't think anyone in the current Republican administration is fit to take over if it comes to that.

earlnemo's picture

I agree,

but it is "when", not "if".

The next do-over is scheduled for 2018, but we can flood the streets at any time

Andy Axel's picture

We can void the appointment

of Gorsuch in the proceeding.

I mean, it'll never happen. But while we're fantasizing....

R. Neal's picture


R. Neal's picture

Easier to read transcription

Easier to read transcription of the emails...


R. Neal's picture


Tamara Shepherd's picture


If the NYT hasn't yet updated its story with the info at your last (Daily Kos) link, they need to.

R. Neal's picture


Tamara Shepherd's picture


So the NYT has incorporated into its reporting some of that backstory we saw at Daily Kos yesterday. Very good, then, especially here:

The family’s trust in Ms. Veselnitskaya was rewarded in May, when she helped Denis P. Katsyv, Pyotr’s son, fight the money laundering claims in New York brought by the Manhattan federal prosecutor at the time, Preet Bharara. Mr. Bharara tangled with Ms. Veselnitskaya several times and protested at one point that she had been charging the government for a $995-a-night room at the Plaza Hotel.

The case was settled two months after Mr. Bharara was dismissed by President Trump.

Wouldn't it be fortuitous if media's slow drip shares with us tomorrow the definitive link between Katsyv's and Trump's real estate development interests.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


I continue to be stunned by how much information the FBI appears to have on this. Is it remotely possible that their investigation is already complete?

Today, in particular, it feels as if we're getting some kind of "controlled feed," maybe for the simple reason that this story is so very big and sprawling, it's hard to digest all at once?

Or possibly it's necessary for the FBI to "control" release of its findings for some other reason?

Yes, I realize that the FBI doesn't generally "release" its findings at all (and I also realize what I'm typing sounds awfully cloak-and-dagger-ish), but...you must concede that we've never seen such torrential levels of "leaks" from the FBI???

Mike Knapp's picture

Another aspect

The email thread exposes not just a singular Trump son but rather the Trump campaign as an organization coordinating with people representing themselves as foreign government officials. People also on it include Manafort, Jared.
Here's Bob Bauer, fror Obama WH counsel, in Fortune.

Of course, the campaign is Donald Trump’s campaign, his authorized committee for seeking election to the presidency. Was he aware that the campaign was courting assistance from the Russian government? Will his campaign team all testify that on an organizational initiative so central to his electoral strategy, they said nothing to the candidate about these communications from and with Russia? The congressional investigating committees and Special Counsel Robert Mueller will now be probing for these answers.

Filed under - what if Hillary or Obama had done this

Tamara Shepherd's picture


Was (Trump Sr.) aware that the campaign was courting assistance from the Russian government?

Oh, I saw a video clip yesterday (was it here at KV, in this or another thread. or elsewhere?) of Trump Sr. speaking to supporters just a couple of days before this June 9 meeting was to take place and he was assuring the crowd he'd have big news on Clinton's criminality in just days. Said he'd probably be making this announcement "on Monday." I'd have to look at a 2016 calendar to see on what date that would have been...

Anyway, it sure looked from that clip like he knew about Junior's effort underway.

(Sorry I can't recall where I caught the video. Anybody???)

mjw's picture

From TPM via R.Neal

That link was posted here yesterday from TPM.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


Ah, so that's where I saw that Trump video, ha ha. In this very thread!

Thanks, mjw. Randy has a coupla links up there that he didn't exactly "introduce" with any text and it's also the case that I was reading on the web so widely yesterday, I couldn't remember what I'd seen where.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


The plot thickens. Today's WaPo reports that Fusion GPS is coming into the spotlight again.

On Monday, Mark Corallo, a spokesman for President Trump’s outside counsel, alleged that the meeting had been set up under false pretenses and implied that Veselnitskaya’s association with Fusion GPS was relevant to the alleged deception.

As to Veselnitskaya's previous association with Fusion GPS, jog your memory here:

Fusion GPS has said that it was working for the law firm BakerHostetler, which was representing Prevezon, a Russian holding company based in Cyprus, in its defense against Justice Department allegations that Prevezon laundered money stolen in the fraud Magnitsky uncovered. Veselnitskaya was Prevezon’s lawyer.

You'll recall that Veselnitskaya went up against U.S. prosecutor Preet Bharara in that money laundering case, whom Trump unceremoniously canned in the weeks before the case was settled to Russia's satisfaction.

However, you'll recall that it was also Fusion GPS who contracted with Christopher Steele to create the infamous "Trump dossier," initially for its anonymous Republican clients, then after the primary for its Democratic operative clients.

About the seeming contradictory interests of these two groups of clients, WaPo says:

There’s no evidence that the work Fusion GPS did for BakerHostetler on behalf of Prevezon and their work on the Trump dossier were connected. In fact, the former seems to advance Russian interests while the latter is hugely problematic for the Russian government. It’s entirely possible that the firm was working on two separate Russia-related projects for clients who had opposing interests, roughly at the same time.

If the Trump team continues to allege the two cases are related, the congressional and perhaps federal inquiries into the firm could be just getting started.

And the inquiries are getting started, albeit at a hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee coming up next week which had been scheduled well before we got to read Trump Jr's emails (or hear his defense of them).

Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley has expressed curiosity about Fusion GPS's operations since last spring and is undoubtedly more perplexed now.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


I lamented previously (in my very first post on this thread):

Wish I knew specifically how the statute applicable to collusion reads.

Hmm. So it turns out that "collusion," in and of itself, is not any crime under federal law. However, here's a really helpful, easily readable overview for us laypeople (from 15 separate attorneys and law professors) explaining just which federal laws the Trump campaign may have broken in its insatiable quest for "dirt" on its opponent.

Looks like all but two of these professionals think there's enough smoke to suggest a fire somewhere.

JaHu's picture

I've wondered if Comey knew

I've wondered if Comey knew about Trump Jr's emails with the Russians concerning Hillary's emails prior to the election and that's why he released information two weeks before the election. He may have known Trump's group was planning to release the information at the last minute when there wouldn't be time to rebute it and he was trying to head it off before it could affect the election, but it turned out that it was to late anyway.

bizgrrl's picture

Then there is more. The

Then there is more.

The Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr. and others on the Trump team after a promise of compromising material on Hillary Clinton was accompanied by a Russian-American lobbyist — a former Soviet counterintelligence officer who is suspected by some U.S. officials of having ongoing ties to Russian intelligence, NBC News has learned.
The Russian-born American lobbyist served in the Soviet military and emigrated to the U.S., where he holds dual citizenship.

Lies and more lies.

michael kaplan's picture

I don't see the 'bombshell.'

I don't see the 'bombshell.' Governments do this all the time. I remember Israeli Ambassador to the UN Yitzhak Rabin openly supporting Nixon for president in 1972, and Golda Meir voicing support for the Vietnam War. As a direct result of this 'intervention,' Jewish Agency chair Max Fisher set up "Jews for Nixon" and actively campaigned for Nixon's reelection. (The Jewish Agency has direct ties to the government of Israel.)

And I need not mention the US government's 'intervention' - sometimes armed - in the internal affairs of other countries.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


But was Golda Meir orchestrating meetings with Nixon, via her subordinates, to funnel him "dirt" on McGovern? "Dirt" she had obtained illegally, in the first place? And did David and Julie Eisenhower then effuse that they "loved it" and race off with John Mitchell in tow to avail the campaign of the scoop?

And after Nixon's election, was son-in-law David then working to establish a "back channel" for communicating with Israel? After Nixon's inauguration, was David then made a senior advisor and given a national security clearance, which he kept after it became known he had failed to report multiple meetings with Israelis? Did some written record then come to light exposing Julie's attendance, along with David's and John's, at that meeting established to pass off the stolen information offered by Israel?

To my knowledge, none of those things happened during Nixon's campaign or during the time he held office (and that "third rate burglary" that did happen, sans any help from an adversarial foreign government, is fast paling in comparison, most pundits agree).

Ambassadors and foreign leaders can and do support whomever they want (provided they don't offer a campaign any "thing of value"), but the FEC has some pretty strict rules concerning their any involvement or influence in U. S. political campaigns. In short, they can't.

michael kaplan's picture

If we're talking about the

If we're talking about the Nixon re-election campaign, I believe there were some "dirty tricks" involved that eventually forced Nixon out of office. As for "dirty tricks" by the Israelis, who really knows ...

Tamara Shepherd's picture


Oh, we all recall some "dirty tricks" in his re-election campaign. I was just pointing out that at least Nixon didn't rope in an adversarial foreign government to help him pull them off, so at least he wasn't beholden to such an adversary.

Do you not have a concern that Trump appears to have compromised our country that way? That he likely owes these people favors now?

Tamara Shepherd's picture


And here's the broader concern: As of last month, Time magazine reported that cyber intrusions of voter data at the hands of the Russians occurred in 21 states and that the intelligence community believes the Russians at least "rattled the doorknobs" in all 50 states.

That's why the possibility that our president might be personally indebted to an adversary like this is so troubling.

For all appearances, that adversary would like to so disrupt our democracy as to destroy it.

michael kaplan's picture

The broader concern: NPR:

The broader concern:

NPR: Mosul. "Horrific."

Tamara Shepherd's picture


We can get to Mosul (and it's fair game), but right now I'm just trying to get to your acknowledgement that, for whatever reason, we've got a problem here in the states with "voting integrity" that has nothing to do with photo IDs.

Somebody's "rattling our doorknobs," everywhere?

R. Neal's picture

Drip drip drip

More revelations...

Clinton/DNC documents delivered to Trump Jr. at the meeting?

Tamara Shepherd's picture


The Daily Beast reported today that meeting attendee Rinat Akhmetshin, the Russian-American lobbyist and former Soviet intel guy, was also sued less than two years ago for allegedly having hacked a private corporation.

In court papers filed with the New York Supreme Court in November 2015, Akhmetshin was described as “a former Soviet military counterintelligence officer” by lawyers for International Mineral Resources (IMR), a Russian mining company that alleged it had been hacked.

Those documents accuse Akhmetshin of hacking into two computer systems and stealing sensitive and confidential materials as part of an alleged black-ops smear campaign against IMR. The allegations were later withdrawn.

Why they were withdrawn wasn't exactly clear to me, but it's late and I'm tired. See what you make of it.

R. Neal's picture

Breaking: Trump

Breaking: Trump waterboy/mailroom clerk don't know nothing about no Russian collusion...


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