Sat
Jul 18 2015
06:58 pm
Donald Trump appears to be in full meltdown, in some sort of self-destructive quest to annihilate his "brand," whatever that is.
NYT: Trump Belittles McCain’s War Record
Mr. Trump said of Mr. McCain, a prisoner of war in Vietnam: “He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”
I'm not a big fan of McCain's politics, but for the record he was awarded a Silver Star and a Distinguished Flying Cross for his service to our country.
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I really do not want to be in
I really do not want to be in the position of defending Trump but, McCain has some issues.
He was a bottom of the class guy at the Naval Academy. Every indication is that had his father not been an admiral and his classmates dedicated, he would have washed out.
There are no pilots flying in the Navy who have crashed two airplanes. McCain's crash where he was captured was his third. It was also the one where he ignored/disobeyed the Standing Orders and that apparently led to his being shot down.
McCain was a reckless asshole on a suicide run. He was callous with the lives of those who flew and/or served with him. POW duty slowed his roll. It may well have made him a better person. Nothing has happened to make Trump a better person, or even vaguely human but, while I respect the medals McCain was awarded, I understand that there was some argument over whether they were to be awarded or he would get a court martial for disobeying the standing orders.
I cannot see me ever admiring either of those clowns.
Yeah, I'm not arguing that
(in reply to cafkia)
Yeah, I'm not arguing that McCain was a good pilot or anything, or whether he's a swell guy. I just think he deserves at least a little respect for what he endured as a POW during wartime while Trump enjoyed his deferment.
McCain crashed five airplanes
(in reply to cafkia)
McCain crashed five airplanes that I know of, including a trainer that he "checked out" to fly to the Army Navy football game and would up ditching in the marsh near Norfolk.
I agree that the decision was between court martialing him or giving him a medal and dumping him in South America out of the way. But hey, nobody's perfect.
The real problem with Trump is that he can't stand being disagreed with, especially when he is obviously wrong. He doesn't answer questions, he attacks the questioner. Please let him win the GOP nomination for President.
I'm not a fan of John McCain,
I'm not a fan of John McCain, but you have to respect someone who was a POW and went through what he went through. He's owed that, period.
What was Donald Trump's war record? He didn't go to Vietnam because of student deferments and then because of medical deferment, specifically because of a bone spur in his foot. But he can't remember which foot. Everybody I know who had a medical deferment out of Vietnam can tell you every detail. My brother sure can. I can remember everything about the day he went for his physical. He came back from Knoxville with a huge smile and the news that he had a hearing problem that meant he would loose his hearing in his thirties and if he went to battle he would loose it immediately. He did start wearing hearing aides in his 30s and now even with digital aids has trouble hearing.
Don't tell me chicken Trump can't remember which foot that bone spur was in and he's saying McCain isn't a hero.
I agree with Cafkia's
I agree with Cafkia's assessment of McCain.
But, the guy was severely tortured as a POW and left with injuries that have plagued him all his life - while Trump sat home with deferments because he "didn't agree" with the war.
Not faulting Trump for seeking deferments. In fact, I don't fault anybody for the choices (serve, National Guard, deferments, high-tailin' it to Canada) they made during that war. There were no good choices.
Nevertheless, Trump is in no position to shit on McCain about this particular issue. It's tacky, obnoxious, graceless, and just plain wrong.
On the other hand,
Republicans have absolutely no room to talk when it comes to trashing Democratic war heroes like John Kerry, Max Cleland, Tammy Duckworth, etc. Seems if it's a Democrat, hunting season is full on.
I cannot stand Trump and he's an ass for saying what he did about McCain, but it is true that McCain has not been there for supporting and giving aid to the troops through his votes. And that is shameful.
DING DING DING!!! And we have
(in reply to Dahlia)
DING DING DING!!!
And we have a winner. Kerry, Cleland, and Duckworth show this for the manufactured outrage it is. The guys that actually own the clown car are trying to get the inhabitants of it to tone down the generally damaging rhetoric and, their attacks on each other. With Trump functioning as his own sugar-daddy billionaire, he takes his orders and advice from the dumbest possible source, himself. Well, wait. I guess Palin or Bachman or West or a thousand others might actually be dumber but, you catch my drift.
Meanwhile...
...Trump wins a PR coup again simply because people are talking about this nastiness and McCain's record rather than ignoring the talking fright wig.
know when to hold 'em, fold em and double down
Donald trump in USA Today 7/19/15
Trump: I don't need to be lectured
Raging egomania.
It's not just for breakfast anymore.
Saying that he preferred
Saying that he preferred non-POW versus POW. I didn’t go out that morning saying, ‘Hell I’m going to get shot down today. I think I’ll go enjoy myself for 7 and a half years,'” said Capt. Robinson, the longest-held enlisted prisoner of war in the Vietnam war.
Having met Capt. Robinson, I
(in reply to bizgrrl)
Having met Capt. Robinson, I am surprised how callous some people can be towards McCain and other POWs.
My uncle was a pilot during
(in reply to bizgrrl)
My uncle was a fighter pilot during the Vietnam war. He is now in his 70s with Parkinsons. Just recently we had a family gathering where he told some pretty wild stories. Luckily, no one ever got hurt. It was a scary time for our armed forces people. It's hard for me to judge these actions given their commitment to the tasks they were given.
What Trump was doing during the war
From the Washington Post...
What Trump was doing during war
Trump is getting the support
Trump is getting the support of those middle class Republicans feeling betrayed by the GOP on things like immigration.
He's the one to watch, like it or not.
Prediction
Trump will flame out sooner or later, but not before doing significant damage to the Republican brand. We all dream of the candidate who breaks convention and becomes The One Who Says What Must Be Said. In the movies, though, it's always Jefferson Smith, the person who is honest to a fault and who willingly sacrifices himself to stand up for the little guy. This does not describe Donald Trump. He is unabashedly looking out for a gold-plated Number One, and honesty is not his strong suit. Speaking without a filter should not be confused with honesty, though it often is. No, Trump will eventually go under, but before he does, he will inhale deeply, and suck all the air out of the room.
Trump didn't fall very far in the polls post McCain comments
The cognoscenti were wrong in their prediction that following his remarks about John McCain Trump would fall in the polls. It didn't happen.
It isn't that Trump is too extreme for the GOP base. Rather it is that the GOP establishment is not extreme enough for that base.
This is one part why comments by Trump, or Foster Arnett for that matter, aren't openly denounced by GOP leadership at the national or the local level. Trump might get a phone call from "obvious anagram" Reince Priebus but neither he nor the local GOP would do anything to walk back or distance themselves from obvious racist, xenophobic statements like calling Mexicans rapists or Muslims goat humpers. Nope, it's free speech. Denouncing hate speech is "politically correct" and therefore irrelevant. Is it a protected right? Of course it is. Should it be denounced because it is wrong. Of course it should... unless folks don' think it is wrong. That type of speech is a play which is found in this playbook.
It doesn't matter if such statements are grossly inaccurate. Just like it doesn't matter if Trump attended Ivy Leave schools to avoid the draft. It doesn't matter if violent attacks against Americans are routinely carried out not by "goat humpers" but rather by right wing homegrown terrorists. Ultimately reality doesn't matter.
What does matter now in today's GOP, thanks in no small part to Fox news, is to be as racist, xenophonic, sexist as possible to get traction. Until the GOP's leadership can lance that boil, nationally or locally, people like Donald will trump more rational, moderate GOP leadership every time.
I am not confident that he
I am not confident that he will flame out. The attacks he is launching on his fellow clowns are completely valid and I have yet to hear or overhear anyone claiming otherwise. He is setting himself up for a situation wherein likely GOP voters say to themselves that if all the candidates have flaws, they might as well go for the one that is saying what they want to hear. And that is Trump.
That said, I do not believe that his original intention was to be a serious contender for anything but increased publicity. Without the other billionaire's backing the field would already be significantly diminished. Perry is going to have to leave the race to enter the race to stay out of jail. Christie has all of the bluster and bombast of Trump and none of the charm or record of success (such as it is). Carson is Black, Fiorina is female and Graham is perceived as Gay. Rand isn't quick enough on his feet to debate Trump. Walker has to run on his record in WI which Trump accurately points out is pretty shitty. Some of the others are nearly unknown or mostly unexciting. Like it or not, Trump is actually in the game.
Strategery
(in reply to cafkia)
If Trump fails to flame out soon, the GOP establishment's best bet is to get their billionaire supporters to coalesce behind a single candidate, likely Jeb Bush. He's a known quantity, and can seem reasonable in comparison to most of the rest, and especially Trump. So long as there are a drunk baker's dozen in the primaries, Trump is his own trump card. His singular talent is in saying the outrageous to get attention. He's done it for years. He'll choose an equally unlikable foil and start a public feud. People are entertained by that sort of conflict. With the wide assortment of candidates out there, he can choose a different one to aim at each week, keeping himself in the news, and switching the others out before anybody really pays attention to them. If the GOP can make it more of a one-on-one situation, then Trump has a harder time, because he has to carry on a sustained debate and gets more scrutiny beyond the stream-of-consciousness one-liners.
"Hey, can I call you Joe?"
Remember, Sarah Palin "won" the debate over Biden in the eyes of GOP voters simply because she didn't sound like an idiot.
Trump's handlers, if such a thing exist, need only to give him the existing template.
Come up with canned answers based on GOP dog whistle issues, and give those reponses regardless the question.
The Republican base and the GOP are two different things. Palin proved it.