Tue
Mar 30 2010
07:13 pm

Commenters team up to drive liberal from site

Good for Jack McElroy for recognizing a problem and exploring ways to fix it. Finding a balance of responsible and civil discourse on either "side" seems increasingly elusive these days.

reform4's picture

Uh, remove the "automatic" part?

With an automatic system, people will figure out quickly how to game it.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Yeah, and hurry...

...without Chuck Jensen to kick around, those KNS folks are going to be trying to run us off the road!

skirob's picture

A slippery slope to say the

A slippery slope to say the least and a bad call on part of the KNS. That said, sometimes admins cave in when it's just easier to keep the masses happy.

Factchecker's picture

Mission--well, you know...

Imagine the sense of accomplishment among the commenters over there.

Bruce t. williams's picture

A certain individual has been

A certain individual has been banned numerous times and he just keeps popping back up under the same name with slight modifications. The KNS has been warned by KCSD about threats this person has made to other bloggers and they still keep him on the payroll (his hints, not mine).

Cj and I certainly have different opinions on many subjects but we also agree on many things. CJ has never said anything that I would consider insulting or demeaning and I remember jack defending the free press ,and their obligation to talk about personal catastropes in the political realm; does this same right not exist for CJ. I would suggest that maybe a boycott of this site might be appropriate until such time that CJ is allowed to participate again. CJ brings intelligent discourse, not threats and offensive language to this scruffy little town. bruce

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Appreciate that, Bruce

Bruce, I just want to say I appreciate your honesty on this subject. I see the distinction between CJ's discourse and who it is you're talking about, too.

I do want to clarify that I'm pretty sure the party you're comparing CJ to isn't on the KNS payroll, though.

(From the tone of Jack's comments, I took it that CJ would be allowed to return pretty promptly? I haven't looked over there this morning...)

rikki's picture

I've long suspected that most

I've long suspected that most conservatives are afraid of the facts and rely on pack mentality for strength, but I never imagined such a literal manifestation.

shannon s's picture

but, but, but....isn't

but isn't that the definition of a conservative? Being one, I am ashamed and grateful for having the views allow my opinion and input.....lol Think you have some closet conservatives on these posts...one in particular.

Support and don't divide and your voice(s) will be heard Dem's

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Support what?

Support what, Shannon?

Bbeanster's picture

Bruce is being typically

Bruce is being typically disingenuous. It's not some nefarious KNS employee who has caused CJ's banning – it's Bruce's natural, ideological allies on the red meat right who have ganged up to file the number of "abuse" reports to trip the automatic switch to get him banned.

So under the guise of defending CJ, he's again bashing someone on his growing list of enemies.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

No, no Betty--Bruce didn't accuse "some nefarious KNS employee" of causing CJ's banning. He was simply comparing to CJ this party he (mistakenly) believed to be a KNS employee, and suggesting that if this party could be banned and readmitted at KNS, CJ should be, too. On that, I agree with him.

As to who likely DID cause CJ to be banned, though, I agree with you.

That being said, it appears that Bruce and CJ really do have some things in common, including their mutual disdain for the Ragsdale administration and their common perspective as business owners on many issues. I'd guess Bruce was being sincere in that regard.

Anonymously Nine's picture

Hmm,

This system worked just fine until CJ was banned. They got rid of Nine and every one was thrilled.

Paone has been banned at least four times, yet he reappears. How is that possible Jack?

Face it, it is a rigged game.

If CJ comes back so should Nine. Fair is fair. But the Sentinel isn't about what is fair. It is about advocacy journalism.

shannon s's picture

when was CJ banned? Yes,

when was CJ banned? Yes, number9 should be allowed on along with CJ. The other poster just doesn't care because he changes his post name a little and just ignores it.

It appears if the post name is banned it can't come back.,

shannon s's picture

good....cj still posts. cj is

good....cj still posts.

cj is not a repeat offender...there are others who are and don't learn but just keep coming back with abuse, and arrogant rhetoric.

Went to KNS and glad to see CJ still posting away...perhaps number9 should come back as number#9....looks like minor change in name would work just fine. It seems to for the persistent poster who gets banned in one form and comes back in another variation and called everyone anonytards as though he is not doing the same by dual posts....lol

Anonymously Nine's picture

.

Actually CJensen's account was restored. So one of the two Jack's vetoed their automated system.

This is interesting because Jack McElroy and CJ are on the same page on gun control. In fact, CJ is more open minded than Jack on the subject.

CJ is by far the most prolific poster in KNS comment history. An amazing 1,395 pages of comments. About ten comments per page so that is over 13,000 comments.

Lesson learned, if the paper agrees with the content you stay. If you criticize the paper you stay gone. Perfectly logical system.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

Just talked to CJ by phone and he said McElroy and Lail are both in his corner.

Wouldn't think Lail (the Instapundit fan) would necessarily be in CJ's corner for reason of any political opinions he and CJ share, would you, Nine?

Ever cross your mind that maybe McElroy and Lail just agree that restoring CJ to the conversation is "the right thing to do?"

Ever motivated to do something for this reason, yourself?

sugarfatpie's picture

Why exactly were you

Why exactly were you banned?
What was the KNS stated reason?

Anonymously Nine's picture

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"Why exactly were you banned?
What was the KNS stated reason?"

Don't know, Lail would never answer any of the three emails I sent. To the best of my knowledge, and this is a guess, I posted a link to a lawsuit. Like the KNS does every week or so.

Apparently I did not have my "journalist" card. The reason was I criticized the paper.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Riiight

Nine, that "lawsuit" you posted was the personal bankruptcy filing of another poster with whom you were heatedly conversing. The poster chose to post anonymously, under a screen name, but you told on-lookers what her name was AND you informed on-lookers that the bankruptcy filing you were sharing was hers.

In other words, you blew her cover--and in quite an embarrassing way.

And you didn't just critize KNS--you critized KNS in every single post you made, taking your criticisms to absurd levels.

And your continued dishonesty about what got you banned in the first place is yet another reason for KNS to keep you shut out.

Anonymously Nine's picture

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"And you didn't just critize KNS--you critized KNS in every single post you made, taking your criticisms to absurd levels."

You left out that I criticized Mike Ragsdale also. But to some he can do no wrong.

Let's talk about your work Tamara. How you lobby to keep Brad Mayes out of open forum in County Commission. I'm not saying you are a DVD clone, but people do wonder. People do wonder with all that has been exposed how some still defend his honor the Mayor.

Tell me what absurd levels of criticism are? That is when people are sick of a corrupt government and try to do something about it? Is that an absurd level of criticism? When people are sick of an advocacy daily newspaper which persecutes those people trying to expose the corrupt government while protecting those in that government who did the malfesance?

Oh I forgot, he was cleared. By whom? The same newspaper you defend.

Can't wait for your commentary on April 5th when your Charter group goes to trial. Will the "will of the people" be overturned by the rule of law? I sense some absurd criticism will entail. Probably about the length of "War and Peace".

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

And the reason my responses to you sometimes read like War and Peace is because you create so many corrections for me to state, like now:

Mike Ragsdale--It's true that the initial anti-Ragsdale fury took me aback, but I've since come to understand first-hand (as in when I served on the community grants panel) what some of the problems are. I've more recently criticized him for mistakes I perceive to be his, but defended him against criticisms for which I perceive he wasn't responsible, or else couldn't reasonably be expected to control. I continue to try to be fair.

Brad Mayes: All in the world I've said about him is that he now has four lawsuits open so I think he would be more expedient to make his case in the courtroom rather than in the public forum at commission meetings--and I do.

Your criticism of KNS: The issue is degree. You just complain so often, about so much, it's hard to take your criticisms seriously. You're "The Boy Who Cried Wolf," you know?

KCP lawsuit: No predictions from me.

OK, that's all the time I have for lengthy retorts. Stop requiring them of me.

Back to "self-policing websites," please?

Rachel's picture

Notice the usual changing of

Notice the usual changing of the subject.

How 'bout it, nine? Did you really post the personal bankruptcy filing of someone who chose to post anonymously on the KNS site?

Cause that's WAY over the line.

Anonymously Nine's picture

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"but the same thing was said of Dennis Rader"

Dennis Rader was a serial killer. Did he comment on the KNS?

Anonymously Nine's picture

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"How 'bout it, nine? Did you really post the personal bankruptcy filing of someone who chose to post anonymously on the KNS site?"

No, it was a different lawsuit. Not unlike the ones the Sentinel puts in the left hand column.

You and Metulj have never done anything like that. Have you?

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

He's lying outright.

I was there at the moment he did it. I saw his comments disappear from the KNS site.

I also know the woman he did it to. She and I have spoken of it since.

Somewhere here in the K-V archives is the blog I posted a couple of days later, to confirm what had happened. My phone had been ringing off the hook with questions from people wanting to know what had happened to Nine, so I just posted an explanation here.

I remember the title of my K-V blog: "Gone, with his body of work."

He's lying outright.

Anonymously Nine's picture

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"I saw his comments disappear from the KNS site."

So you will have your memory as proof? Convenient, isn't it?

You seem rather obsessed Tamara. And it was you who created the "body of work" meme. Glad to see you admitted that.

Payback is what the Charter Amendment crowd is all about. The attacks began with the Charter Amendments. Nice to be compared to a serial killer by our friend the Professor. Not his best work, but this isn't the Blab.

I notice this has again derailed into the typical derailment. No mention of the Sentinel's glaring double standard. No mention of CJ's special treatment. Just the same old song. Well, someone has to be the token, conservative that is.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Oh, this veil of tears...

...I'm sure you'll get your reward "on the other side," Nine.

Andy Axel's picture

I notice this has again

I notice this has again derailed into the typical derailment.

When it "involves your involvement," that's pretty much par for the course.

Rachel's picture

You and Metulj have never

You and Metulj have never done anything like that. Have you?

Post someone's private legal business to a site where they were trying to remain anonymous?

No.

cjensen's picture

CJ KNS Banning

I emailed Jack-n-Jack yesterday afternoon that there seemed to be a problem with my comments on the KNS site. As I traipsed from article to article, all of my comments had been flagged as 'inappropriate' and had the 'click to reveal' message on them. I reread a few, and other than the usual acerbic comments, there wasn't really anything nasty or derogatory, or any personal attacks, so I was a bit mystified.

Not underdstanding the system, I thought some green eyeshade editor responded to the flags and determined whether they flags were worthy of action. If so, I suspected the Home Room Monitor must be having a bad day.

Jack-n-Jack replied that the flagging initiates a hiding of the comment with an offer to click Reveal Comment, after allowing time to brace yourself for the ugliness in the comment. But in fact, it is all automatic. The protection built into the system, apparently, is that a single person cannot get you banned, but if multiple people flag enough comments, then it kicks into automatic and bans a person.

Jack-n-Jack allowed that they didn't see that it was anything that I said, but more just those that don't appreciate my views. This whole affair is interesting as it is the Conservatives, TeeBaggers and general hoo-hoots, who talk endlessly about our Constitution and preserving our Rights, yet apparently ganged up to deprive me of those same rights. As I've mentioned from time to time, hypocrisy is spelled with an 'h'.

As to other parties, btw and I come from diametrically opposed view points, yet agree on many issues, particularly local ones, though I've yet to see his fascination with Tim 'PayDay' Burchett. Granted, btw has a lot of really screwed up political views, but I don't hold that against him, nor he, I.

Now, as to N9, I don't accept linkage of my situation with Nine's. While both have been banned (me, once, Nine...I don't have enough fingers), the bannings have been for completely different reasons. In short, I got banned for my political views, Nine got banned for the way he expresses them.

In sum, my feelings are not hurt and I laugh-out-loud at the inarticulate, hateful hoo-hoots that thought the only way they could counter my ideas was by silencing me. I've seen no bad conduct or any untoward actions on the part of KNS and I expect they will remedy the situation as best they can and as soon as they can.

Carry on.

Anonymously Nine's picture

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"In short, I got banned for my political views, Nine got banned for the way he expresses them."

That is ridiculous CJ. I never violated their user agreement under any of the many revisions of the user agreement. I criticized the paper. Once too often. And I still do. When I posted the lawsuit in a comment I gave them a reason. I did it on purpose. I wanted to see what they would do. There will be no one who challenges the mighty Oz.

As long as we are on the subject. I have posted even up to today on the "Upfront Page", which is Jack McElroy's blog. No ban there. But get this. Until about two months ago I could post an Internet link on the "Upfront Page". But then no more. No links for Nine. I confronted Jack McElroy about it and he said I could post links. I informed him it wasn't possible. He never responded.

Apparently Jack and Jack on not on the same page.

And the reason I cannot post links on the "Upfront Page"? Because I was posting links from KnoxViews. Congrats to KnoxViews. Too dangerous for the "Upfront Page". Oh I know I could simply create another identity, but why play their game?

But CJ, you left out an important piece of the story. Are you not a former Knoxville News Sentinel panelist? So your situation is different. What was that group you were in with Jack McElroy? If memory serves R. Neal and others attended.

Our situations are quite different.

cjensen's picture

Nine, your victimhood is

Nine, your victimhood is impressive, but I suggest you reread your post....everything is a conspiracy, everyone is out to get you and trample on your rights and your are being denied this and denied that adn people won't reply to you...ad nauseum. Ever wonder why?

Anonymously Nine's picture

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"everything is a conspiracy"

No, that is a little silly. Everything is an absolute word.

But in the daily paper it is a rigged game. Only special people can break the rules that others have to obey. You were let back in when many others were not. So the rules are shall we say, flexible for the right people.

Don't forget the only rule about the Sentinel, you don't talk about the Sentinel.

It's so simple you would think I could understand it.

Andy Axel's picture

(No subject)

Barker's picture

Funny thing is, Number9 still

Funny thing is, Number9 still posts sometimes as Number10. Same thing for which he criticizes Paone. Number9 can post on knoxnews blogs and Number10 has not been banned for criticizing KNS.

Scott Barker
KNS

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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But CJ, you left out an important piece of the story. Are you not a former Knoxville News Sentinel panelist? So your situation is different. What was that group you were in with Jack McElroy? If memory serves R. Neal and others attended.

Nine, you seem to misunderstand the "flavor" of these News-Sentinel panels.

Yes, CJ's been to one. I think you're right that R. Neal said he'd attended one (or more), too. I've been to one and Cafkia here at K-V attended with me that night, as well.

We all offered our critiques of the paper, good and bad, and the evening I attended, I'm pretty sure every single attendee (from among about 20) had a criticism of some kind about KNS.

You're mistaken if you think these KNS functions are pep rallies, or if you imagine people attending them subsequently land themselves on some sort of desired "short list" for anything at all.

Anonymously Nine's picture

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"Nine, you seem to misunderstand the "flavor" of these News-Sentinel panels."

I get the flavor. The first rule of Sentinel Club is you don't talk about Sentinel Club.

cjensen's picture

Tamara, you are correct that

Tamara, you are correct that both R. Neal and I have attended KNS seminars. In fact, we attended the same one. While we did not speak, we did make eye contact. From that fleeting meeting of the eyes, we decided to gang up on Nine and run him to the ground, like jackals on a rabbit.

Naturally, we enlisted the KNS editors and reporters to join in and pounce upon the hapless Nine. Granted, we didn't talk about it, or even make eye contact, but sometimes, there is a community of the spirit and an unspoken understanding of what needs to be done....and we've done it. We snubbed him, snapped him and banned him.

So yes, Nine is paranoid, but that doesn't mean people aren't out to get him. If you doubt it for a second, just ask him. lol

redmondkr's picture

Gone, with His "Body of Work"

is here.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

Thanks, Kenny. I was too lazy to look for it.

You do notice the way the thread ended? With Betty asking him direct questions as to what he did or did not do? Nine was actively engaged in conversation there, until Betty asked him outright exactly what he did. Then silence.

Guess anybody who'd forgotten about the exchange can draw their own conclusions.

rikki's picture

give pee a chance

Is inability to comprehend why he is banned reason to ban a person? Has any person been banned?

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