Sun
Jul 29 2007
12:14 pm

I was suprised to see so many folks discuss the possibility of Ragsdale resigning on the local policial shows this week.

On Inside Tennessee (don't know that there's a link to their footage, unless #9 is still illegally doing it elsewhere), John Becker, Susan Williams, Don Bosch and the guy from the paper (don't recall his name) brought up this possibility in the show's last part.

Then on Tennessee This Week, Gene Patterson, Frank Cagle and Lloyd Dougherty also discussed it alot:

(link...) then click on "Lloyd Daugherty and Frank Cagle"

Are folks to the point that they're discussing Ragsdale resigning?

125
like
Bizzy's picture

I don't think Daugherty

I don't think Daugherty discussed it...I think he flat out called for it. Don't forget he was the first one to call for Shumaker's resignation.

Tess's picture

special election?

If he resigns, would there be a special election, or would the county commission be allowed to appoint someone to be the mayor?

The deck will certainly shuffle if that is the case. There will be a mad scramble of musical chairs with the jobs at the City/County Bldg, again.

I can see it now in my crystal ball.

The new mayor is -- ex-Shurf Tim.

Sandra Clark's picture

Resignation

First, I doubt that Ragsdale will resign. He still doesn't really understand what the fuss is about. His next line of defense will be victimhood -- those evil commissioners are out to get him. After he's forced to let go of Finch and Arms, he will try to clear the deck with a "they did it, they're gone, let's move on" theme.

If Ragsdale is forced from office -- I'm reporting in tomorrow's Shopper that he charged his colonoscopy on his P-Card; what does it take? -- there's a procedure in state law and the county charter for his replacement. The Commission chair would act as interim executive (here comes Scoobie), then the Commission would appoint someone to serve until the next election.

Frankly, this may be the only way to truly "move on." -- s.

Rachel's picture

Moving on

I fail to see how Knox Countians experiencing more Commission appts is "moving on." Ragsdale isn't the only one who doesn't understand what the fuss is all about. Most of Commission thinks they operate just fine, thank you very much.

But I don't see Ragsdale resigning. I suppose anything can happen, but we're a long way from that one.

bill young's picture

good question

I'll be darned.

Seams like last year I did hear alot about...next regularly scheduled election..which would be august '08..but again I dont know.

Best way to answer that question..Give the state election commission a call...they helped me alot last year.

Bizzy's picture

Sandra

Was this colonoscopy performed by a trained medical professional?

Sandra Clark's picture

Was this colonoscopy

Was this colonoscopy performed by a trained medical professional?

Somebody I was telling the story to suggested it was performed by Paul Pinkston. -- s.

talidapali's picture

I for one...

now find myself firmly ensconced in the "throw all the bums out" camp. We need a clean slate from top to bottom in both the County Mayor's office and the County Commission.

_________________________________________________
"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali

CBT's picture

You will note that Cagle

You will note that Cagle mentioned the need for Ragsdale to 'clean house', including BFF Mike Arms 'who has his fingerprints on virtually every problem coming out of the Mayor's office'. Gee, I wonder how many people have told the Mayor that over the past few years.

Ragsdale won't resign. To do so would admit that his administration is a complete failure and that he has no future. I don't know if he will completely clean house, but if he doesn't he will be viewed as just putting band-aids on the problem. Ragsdale still intends to run for higher office, i.e. governor. This has been the plan for a long time, a career politician. But, with his 'base' in complete disarray and the inability to independently finance a campaign, I can't imaging donors will be lining up to support Ragsdale in a primary. He made this bed. I imagine it's pretty uncomfortable right now.

Lloyd Daugherty made a good point. Lots of people complain about the so-called contentious relationship between Commission and the Mayor's office. But, this battle has exposed problems with Commission and in the Mayor's office. It's also apparently going to result in some needed changes. Though a bit ugly at times, this is the way government is supposed to work. No one branch has total control.

Rachel's picture

Yup, the way govt is SUPPOSED to work.

No one branch has total control.

Tell it to George Bush.

CBT's picture

You don't think there's a

You don't think there's a battle between Congress and the Executive Branch? Sure looks like it to me. And, no one is always wearing the white hat or even the black one.

But, let'e please not let this thread divert to national politics.

metulj's picture

Unfortunately, the

Unfortunately, the cannibalism of the Knox GOP^HB is not dissimilar to the national scene.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

CL's picture

I'm reporting in tomorrow's

I'm reporting in tomorrow's Shopper that he (Ragsdale) charged his colonoscopy on his P-Card.

Why not? I've always thought that he has his head so far up his you-know-what that he could french-kiss himself. :)

Joe Taylor's picture

Time to Go

After watching WBIR and WATE talk shows this morning can it only be matter of time for Mike Arms is fired... it appeared to me pretty much everyone on both shows called for the firing of Mike Arms and several said Mike Ragsdale should resign too...

At some point, someone needs to explain to Mike and Mike that Knox County/Knoxville was here before them and will still be after them and for the good of the community and they need to resign...

It is time our county gets back to work and it appears as long as those two are still in office we will not be able to move the county forward with improving schools, road, etc.

Because we will be waiting on the next scandal to begin as long as they remain in office… to many scandals to list here… (but it would be nice for someone else to list them all on another post)

Mike Ragsdale thought he was a king maker messing in everyone political race, and by the way loosing all of them, sticking his paws into here one else’s business...

Just caused they changed the title of the office did not mean they changed the job description... it is time bring back the correct name of the office "county executive"

rikki's picture

right verb, wrong subject

I don't see how all this adds up to Ragsdale needing to resign. It has already cost a few people who are directly responsible for some of the misspent money their jobs, and the p-card problems are more tangential to basic business of the mayor than the Black Wednesday matters are to the business of the commission.

Right now County Commission is stacked with a bunch of jokers who have no business representing county voters. The last thing the county needs is to grant that body more power than it normally has by letting it appoint a new mayor. Scott Moore's leadership of the commission is far more scandalous, and Ragsdale has been a voice of reason amid commission's embarrassing behavior. Moore should resign along with several of the most dubious and occluded commission appointees. Ragsdale just needs to fix the problems that have come to light and move on, which he is already doing.

Rachel's picture

Here's a question I've been

Here's a question I've been wondering about. There's been some noise about Ragsdale's hospitality fund, with promises of more to come. The argument being made is that all $$ accepted by the County should go into the general fund and be budgeted by Commission.

What I want to know is - would the folks who make that argument make the same one for the Sheriff's drug $$?

Just wondering....

rocketsquirrel's picture

good question

good question, Rachel. good question.

edens's picture

>would the folks who make

>would the folks who make that argument make the same one for >the Sheriff's drug $$?

Won't really matter, once this mess results in the consolidation of Knox County's political power in one player's hand.

rightwinginsider2's picture

Ragsdale Resignation

You can see the Lloyd Daugherty/Frank Cagle segment on WATE's website: (link...)

Yes, Lloyd does call for Ragsdale's resignation. There have been times in the past that Lloyd called for the resignation of the state GOP chairmen and soon afterward they were gone. Lightning may strike a third time.

CBT's picture

Now really Toby, what do you

Now really Toby, what do you know about how the the Knox Co. GOP works? I mean first hand, working in campaigns, going to the dozen different Republican clubs which meet each month in Knox Co., getting to know Republican officerholders and candidates?

Your view of so-called cannibalism is now from New Jersey, but I suspect it wasn't much better when you lived here. Yes, Republicans disagree on a number of things. But, we do pretty well come election time in Knox Co. And, before you compare it to the state or national parties, save it. Those are different games.

metulj's picture

Nice try. I have a foot in

Nice try. I have a foot in both places. Always remember that.

Getting to know Knox County GOP folks can be boiled down to one experience back in 1996 where a GOP canvasser told my black neighbor (in my presence; in the city) that he couldn't vote in elections (after he said he would be voting Democrat) because he was a renter and didn't pay taxes. Nice.

Anyhow, having a spat over a policy and eviscerating each other is different. Let's see: Cawood:Quist::Specter:Gonzales.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Dixie-crats I have known

Be fair now, metulj. My own paternal grandfather was a "Dixie-crat" and one-time KKK-er. With his hog jowls and burr haircut, he looked just like J. Edgar Hoover and he scared the hell out of me when I was a kid.

Come to think of it, he probably scared the hell out of most of the residents of the small Arkansas burg he ruled (as town manager, postmaster, slumlord, and sole purveyer of dry goods, seed, and feed at his general store).

(Did I mention that he owed his "fortune" to McCormick-Schilling? In the store's back room, around the pot-bellied stove, the walls were lined floor-to-ceiling with their plaques, honoring his outstanding sales of vanilla extract. Was and is a dry county there...)

This modern-day Dem trusts CBT and Johnny Ringo, by virtue of their civility and willingness to participate here.

Up Goose Creek's picture

I hope not

I hope Ragsdale doesn't resign. Our Founding fathers were on to something with the separation of powers. We need to have government officials keeping an eye on each other.

____________________________________
Less is the new More - Karrie Jacobs

Simply Ridiculous's picture

Though a bit ugly at times,

Though a bit ugly at times, this is the way government is supposed to work. No one branch has total control.

So, if Ragsdale resigns, Scobbie steps in as interim until he appoints Hutchi...um, I mean, someone? I sure hope that isn't how government ends up 'working' here.

Joe328's picture

Sheriffs Drug Fund

Sorry folks, but I believe federal law regulates funds seized from the drug trade. Law enforcement must receives the funds and must use it for drug enforcement.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Moody suit?

I was thinking that Hutchison's accounting method WRT drug money was one of the 18 of 19 points Moody won in her successful suit against him? Anybody recall more clearly than I?

Rachel's picture

Sorry folks, but I believe

Sorry folks, but I believe federal law regulates funds seized from the drug trade. Law enforcement must receives the funds and must use it for drug enforcement.

More than one audit has said the sheriff should turn the $$ over to the general fund.

Should we guess which Hutchison flack/supporter you are?

rikki's picture

Does federal law mandate

Does federal law mandate that such funding be hidden from the county? Who certifies that seized assets are spent on drug enforcement?

Sandra Clark's picture

Moody

I was thinking that Hutchison's accounting method WRT drug money was one of the 18 of 19 points Moody won in her successful suit against him? Anybody recall more clearly than I?

I don't recall Herb or Wanda winning anything against Hutchison. -- s

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Civil suit

What do you mean, Sandra? Moody won 18 of 19 counts in her civil suit against Hutchison, as I recall. What do you recall?

Joe328's picture

Drug Fund Abuse

The drug funds and seized properties are sometimes abused by law enforcement across the country. Some seized property includes; beach houses, cabins on the ski slops, private jets, large sail boats, expensive cars, and more.
How they spend the funds is guarded, because it may expose an undercover operation. Most all agencies are very creative in their drug interdiction operations, so a trip to the beach in a private jet can use drug interdiction funds. Since none of the funding came from the tax payer, no one really cares.
Also, Wanda never won the lawsuit about controlling the drug funds. Furthermore, a real audit completed by a CPA would never tell you how to control you funds. A good audit would disclose what funds were spent within regulations and what funds did not met standard operating guidelines.
Its a bad law that allows dishonest people to travel in private jets, stay in beach homes, cabins, use sail and ski boats, and more.

Rachel's picture

Since none of the funding

Since none of the funding came from the tax payer, no one really cares.

Then wouldn't the same logic apply to the hospitality fund? That's sure not the way I heard Lee Tramel talking about it on tee vee last week.

Joe328's picture

Hospitality funding

Hospitality funds were donated by companies that do business with Knox County. It seems a good donation ensures a contract funded by taxpayers. Drug funds were seized from accused dealers who sometimes go to jail.

Please don't misunderstand me, I think the hospitality fund is a great idea, it just needs some fine tuning. As far as the drug funding, it needs a major change, the abuse is out of control and no one cares. The sheriff never broke any laws. The problem is the current codes give law enforcement to much control over the drug funds, with little accountability. Look at some of the other counties across the country and you will see that Knox County is doing business about the same as everyone. Does that make it right? No!

Socialist With A Gold Card's picture

Hospitality

Hospitality funds were donated by companies that do business with Knox County. ... Drug funds were seized from accused dealers who sometimes go to jail.

And the difference is ... ?

--Socialist With A Gold Card


"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." -- Brett Butler

Rachel's picture

And the difference is ...

And the difference is ... ?

According to Lee Tramel on tee vee last week, all funds coming into the county should go into the county general fund and be budgeted by Commission. He was being asked about the hospitality fund when he said it.

I doubt that he would give the same answer if asked about the drug fund.

Geez, I'm tired of this. Ragsdale, his staff, Commission - it's almost impossible to find anyone to tolerate, much less admire, in the whole sorry bunch of 'em. That goes double because much of their shock and indignation about the behavior of others is just to divert attention from their own sorry selves.

I'm embarrassed to live in a county run by these yahoos.

Joe328's picture

And the difference is...

The difference is you chanced my comment by omitting one sentence. IT SEEMS A DONATION ENSURES A GOOD CONTRACT FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS.

In years past all seized drug funds went into the general fund. Federal law now gives control of seized funds from drug transactions to law enforcement. Seized funds must be spent on drug interdiction.

I see no need to respond to any more comments, until someone can show where any county in Tennessee, returns seized drug funds to the general fund.

Mello's picture

Drug funds

Federal drug money has to be used for non-reoccuring expenses. Like guns and not bullets, like cars but not gas.

Every penny into any county has to be accounted for. Chances are good that Knox county as a very specific line number for drug fund money.

The hot topic is just what the money is used for. In the case of Blount County, they built a race track. Money many people say could have gone to other more needed items.

I am not saying I like this, only that I made myself understand this because of local issues. I would love to see this law changed but that would take an act of special interests, I mean congress.

CBT's picture

one experience back in

one experience back in 1996

You should get to know more local Republicans. Some you might like.

metulj's picture

I'd rather know them by

I'd rather know them by their first names and not their maudlin politics. Though, dogs, fleas, reposing...

Still, it can't be worse than where I grew up where the local GOBs printed two versions of the Election notice, one with an incorrect date inserted in the North Carolina paper that the southern, more African-American part of the county read. Or the inability to find the keys for the elementary school on election day. Or the conspicuous lack of ax handles and buckshot at the hardware store when a Doug Wilder gave a speech at our town hall.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

CBT's picture

Long ago, local Democrats

Long ago, local Democrats packed the ballots boxes with fake ballots (I've heard tales of sitting and rubbing new dollar bills on stacks of ballots to make them look 'genuine'). Both political parties have played games with ballots and minorities.

Aside from voters who strongly identify with a particular party and 'party' volunteers, local politics has very little to do with political parties. Was there a more conservative Commissioner than Democrat Mark Cawood? Just one example that state and national labels can deceive voters on a local level.

It does make a difference in state and national races as to turning out local votes for candidates (see comment on identification and grass roots workers). I'm sure there were quite a few Lincon Davis and John Tanner voters who voted for Corker (or maybe that should be against Ford Junior). Party affiliation means much more in Nashville and Washington, as it's built in to the system of government.

Rachel's picture

Aside from voters who

Aside from voters who strongly identify with a particular party and 'party' volunteers, local politics has very little to do with political parties.

I'd almost agree with that statement. Just change it to "local issues and government have little to do with political parties."

rightwinginsider2's picture

Mayor Ragsdale Drinking Shuffle Game

Watch an interview of Mayor Mike Ragsdale ((link...))
• Take a drink whenever he says “Going forward”
• Switch chairs whenever he says “Moving forward”
• Do the Wave whenever he says “doing some really good things”
• Stand-up and spin around whenever he says “partnership” or “partner”
• Kick-up your feet whenever he says “every school a great school”

spratt's picture

Trust me--Scoobie, Tramel,

Trust me--Scoobie, Tramel, JJ and many more fear any close scrutiny of the drug fund. I'm no defender of Ragsdale and company, but there are other parts of local government, that under the scrutiny of anyone not afraid to go there, stink much worse. Sad but true.

sp

rikki's picture

peekaboo!

anyone not afraid to go there

Like Wanda Moody or Herb Moncier? It ain't about being afriad; it's about stamina. Legal stamina, the trump card of the wealthy and powerful.

Of course, for many Republicans, it's about maturing beyond political infancy, where things kept out of sight do not exist. Drug fund? What drug fund?

Brian Hornback's picture

CBT asked

Was there a more conservative Commissioner than Democrat Mark Cawood?

Yes. Commissioner Joe McMillan and after his passing Commissioner Mike McMillan. BTW, Big Joe was and Mike is Conservative and Republican.

Joe Taylor's picture

Ragsdale?

Have we grown tired of Ragsdale and his staff's misdeeds???

I say no one (including myself) posted on his appearance on Gene Patterson show Sunday... what a joke "it is not my style to punish employees who do wrong” then who the heck job is it???

It has been extremely quiet the past few days has Ragsdale weathered the storm?

Where is the outrage... is it over???

Has he survived the News Sentinel onslaught???

Knoxquerious's picture

Answers

No, but most assume the grave has been dug too deep to escape.

His, or the one of our sheriff's.

Yawn.

Just Knox County Attention Deficit Disorder. (see apathy)

Again, the horse is dead. KNS probably tuning up for the election and Black Wednesday articles while contradicting themselves on endorsement op-ed later.

Catfish's picture

There's more to come in the

There's more to come in the media. Reporters do have to have some time off. They were spotted up on the 6th floor east side yesterday.

Also, County Commission hasn't met this month. That'll get lots of coverage.

Sandra Clark's picture

The King is Dead

Ragsdale is history. Gene Patterson's interview Sunday did nothing to rehabilitate Knox County's CEO; rather it showcased his pettiness and defensiveness.

Courthouse rumor is that the KNS reporters are getting so many tips about new places to investigate that Hartmann is outsourcing them to India.

rocketsquirrel's picture

ah sandra

yes, but the KNS is not limiting itself to Mr. Ragsdale. funny how terrible it is for Cynthia Finch to direct money to an organization run by a family member, but when others do it, they see nothing wrong in their own actions. I'm not defending Cynthia, but I think the KNS is going to start scrutinizing a lot more public officials and their relationships.

I hear KNS is working on the family tree.

Joe Taylor's picture

Ethics Commint Wants Mayor Investigation

This is our of Knoxnews

(link...)

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