Apparently we need a HIPPA-type act for utility bills, unless you have the property in question under contract, which most of these detractors probably couldn't afford anyway. Envy is a bitch. Or something like that.

I guess none of this "analysis" takes into account any of the good deeds.

And let's not even talk about GWB and "Dead-eye Dick" Cheney and their collective entourage's carbon footprint.

I wonder what the utility bills are for the homes of Rush, Coulter, and the other fabulously wealthy GOP elite

But that's the point, see. Limbaugh's conscience is clear, because he has none, so he's not a hypocrite.

Even if it's accurate, this hookum deeply stupid. But you have to admit it's a pretty good bit of political theater. If you don't have the facts, pound the table.

...and I guess we'll have to lay off Dick Chickenhawk 'cause he finally saw combat. Sucks to be us some days.

Go git your Ché head, digit.

9 blathered: I am a skeptic, remember?

A "Skeptic" embraces critical thinking to determine falsity of an argument. As the poster child for observational selection, You're a swing and a miss.

I find it interesting that the outcry over Al Gore's electric bill is mostly from the same people who support the Bush administration and his environmental rollbacks.

The investigation of Gore's electric bill was intitiated by the Tennessean. A true journalistic effort would have looked at Corker's, Alexander's, and Frist's bils by comparison. Did you know that any citizen of TN can request and receive the utility bills for any location in TN?

At any rate, I guess we have to ignore any message of crisis if the messanger is not pure.

There is indeed a big question about "forestation" and other "carbon sink" credits, and a valid criticism to be made against Al Gore in this regard.

The idea is scientifically dubious, which is why Terapass refuses to offer such credits. The US forced the carbon sink idea into the Kyoto negotiations over the objections of Europe and Japan in the vain hope of getting American industry on board, and Gore played a big role in that.

But cap-and-trade systems have a proven track record. Here's the results for sulphur dioxide, the key ingredient in acid rain:

Al Gore is telling people to make sacrifices, while he seems unwilling to make much lesser sacrifices himself. He's living in a 10,000 square foot house and using massive quantities of electricity and natural has, not to mention jet fuel.

This is "do as I say, not as I do" hypocrisy, plain and simple.

www.lesjones.com

Speaking of illogical arguments: les asserted the gore was a hypocrite. not that gore's stance was invalid.

Keep trying.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

Is that a result of cap and trade or new emission controls or increased use of low-sulfur coal?

Yeah, it's both. AFAIK, the consensus is that while there was a tradeoff between SO4 and CO2, the system also helped drive technological advances. The whole idea is to incentivize polluters into finding solutions. And yes, the key is the guvmint sticking to its guns on the cap and not create bullshit loopholes, as this administration is prone to do. But on the whole, that cap worked more quickly, efficiently and thoroughly than even the designers anticipated.

My concern about all of this feel good carbon credit foolishness is that it will give cover to the .gov to NOT improve CAFE standards and to NOT install scrubbers on smokestacks.

You want me to believe this Administration hasn't improved CAFE standards because of feel-good carbon credits? I think a far more likely culprit is denialism on GW science, including outright falsification of EPA findings.

Al Gore is telling people to make sacrifices, while he seems unwilling to make much lesser sacrifices himself.

That's funny, because the big hit on Gore from the left is that he isn't calling for sacrifice.

This one's easy.

Then pray tell us exactly where the point is that the "degree" of the hypocrisy is too great.

IOKIYAR.

____________________________

Recursive blogwhore.

It really is kinda funny watching free-market conservatives get in a lather about a guy that's successful, has a big house, spends his money how he wants and spends extra sums of his own money to try to be a good to the environment.

Rather than going into detail about what a complete jerk you are, I propose a little contest. We can even let Unk be the judge.

Since you accuse me of having a huge carbon footprint, how about a little wager: my carbon footprint against yours? Lowest wins, negative numbers count.

The loser agrees to never use a computer ever again.

Simple, right? The carbon that I and my immediate family emit, less what we sequester, against the same for you.

Play or apologize!

Since you are one of those idiots who would rather accuse Paul Revere of mistreating a horse rather than helping the Patriots fight the enemy, I suspect you should just shut up.

At the very least, you should quit accusing others of things you know absolutely nothing about. But then you would still have to shut up, wouldn't you?

Peace,

Steve

Who cares if Gore's a hypocrite? Globing warming will be with us as a serious problem long after Gore is dead.

And damn it, we're all hypocrites.

That was my point. The right can't use this to disprove GW, but they do see it as a handy opportunity to pile onto Gore (again) and to distract from a real discussion about GW. And there's a strong tendency for the sheeple to fall victim of the Tu Quoque fallacy, so that becomes their argument against GW, however lame and illogical. So it's a cheap twofor. How dumb are the dittobrains who lap it up?

Limbaugh's conscience is clear, because he has none, so he's not a hypocrite.

Exactly. Plus, how much time has their side devoted to defending what a good thing it is for Americans to make it rich, live lavishly, and to burn as much fossil fuels as they want? The "blessed" American way of life, bulk taxpayers, job generators, and all. Shouldn't Rush use Gore as a role model for living the American dream? Heh.

Like Howard Dean for the DNC, Gore's just the messenger for GW. The important thing is how well he accomplishes that task.

It really is kinda funny watching free-market conservatives get in a lather about a guy that's successful, has a big house, spends his money how he wants and spends extra sums of his own money to try to be a good to the environment.

Sorry, I was typing when you posted that. You said it better.

How can you be a hypocrite while advocating moderation?

By engaging in excess?

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

doesn't exactly negate the point about consumption and carbon emmissions.

That's really not the issue, though. There are many good arguments to be had over solutions. The vast majority of Gore critics are using this trope in hopes of denying there's a problem. That's the tu quoque.

That argument should have been settled 10 years ago, and at this point we should be approaching some conclusions about how to approach this challenge. But instead we had to go through this idiotic farce about whether climate scientists - now personified by Mr. Hollyweird - are really the New Bolshevik vanguard.

You asked a question. I answered it.

I'm cool with Gore's advocacy. His power usage dwarfs mine and is excessive but he lives in that other America where that's the norm (there are two, right?).

Those are not mutually exclusive. One issue is how much his excess impacts his advocacy.

The rest of your point looked to me like: limbaugh blah blah nazi blah blah kill republicans blah blah cool.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

An Inconvenient Truth is very heavy handed with scare tactics.

See, this is what drives me to drink. Why would you base your evaluation of climate science on whether Al Gore's movie uses "scare tactics?" Did yo mama's "heavy-handed" admonitions about falling down the stairs shake your faith in gravity?

It's because you lie.

I concede that even though Steve has a much higher carbon footprint than I do...

You have no idea about any of this.

...with your huge carbon footprint you advocate planting trees in Brazil rather than changing your lifestyle.

An absurd statement but it still contains several embedded lies. You bear false witness against your fellow man.

9, you are either purposefully obtuse or mentally ill, as several folks here have indicated. Has your therapist seen the stuff you post? Why are you so afraid of Al Gore? He only wants to help you, 9. Why do you feel the necessity to tell lies and try to denigrate people who are trying to help?

I don't think you have actually seen "An Inconvenient Truth" have you?

I knew you wouldn't take the bet. You are inadequate.

Ha!

WTF do you want, 9? Why do you insist on backing into the science through movie reviews and political rhetoric, and conflating science and policy? If I explain to you the chemical composition of saltwater, is my tone of voice relevant?

I've pointed you to dispassionate, balanced reviews of the state of the science, yet you continue to proclaim without evidence that this is all a commie plot.

"We have ten years to save this planet", I am thinking Amway. That is a closing trick. It sets the urgency.

Oh, so it comes down to a bit of masturbatory rhetorical hairsplitting, then. Qu'elle surprise.

How about this: I'm willing to concede that the planet will survive another ten million millenia, but that doesn't mean that I'm unaware that there's a significant threat to the earth's biosphere which has dire implications for continued human existence in the coming century.

____________________________

Recursive blogwhore.

The tone of your voice is relevant only if your desire is to recruit people to your cause.

Ohhhh kay, then. Be vewwy vewwy quiet; you might hurt the sun's feelings, and it won't come out tomowwo.

Sigh. Has The Ringer arrived yet?

Hey 9...I think you are one of the most negative person I have ever "known". You never offer solutions...and you constantly shit on anything you don't agree with. 13 comments by you thus far and nothing tangible has come out of any of them except for the fact you don't like wind power and think solar "is the way to go". All linky...no thinky...

The investigation of Gore's electric bill was intitiated by the Tennessean. A true journalistic effort would have looked at Corker's, Alexander's, and Frist's bils by comparison."

First the Tennessean is for the most part a very good paper and second they went after Al simply because he is the global warming point person. Alexander"s Blackberry Farm (been there more than a few times for the weekend and longer) is anything but green! Sure they grow "some" of what they serve but they are not stewards of the ground water,and their footprint on the land up there is more of a scar.

As for Corker, he is a developer...enough said.
Frist does have several large homes and there is no doubt they also eat power and are not green, but again he is now out of the circle and certainly does not have the target Al has.

Al is our leader in this and that is the simple reason they first investigated his beautiful home (he lives in the very best section of Nashville and it makes the houses in West Knoxville look like slave quarters) and then tried to smear both the man and his work on Global Warming. The Tennessean was a bit too obvious on this one and everyone caught it!

Perhaps you can provide some solutions to those questions?

It's not that solutions aren't coming. Newer wind turbines are being located in better spots so as to be less of a threat to wildlife. And they're more efficient. Wind power I understand is the cheapest green power, very close to fossil fuels, and of course without the latter's problems.

Birds die from oil spills and probably have reduced life spans from the polluted air we all breathe. And how much wildlife dies from mountain top coal removal, an increasingly common technique that the "free market" and insatiable power demands have caused?

Wind turbines aren't perfect and will never be. But they work well and are being made to work better as the technology matures. They've only been around a few decades. How clean were early coal plants, not to mention modern ones' environmental problems?

Wind turbines aren't perfect and will never be."

So true the only ones that work are located on The Farm (middle TN group started it years ago and they have invented a hell of a generator that TVA has tried to buy for YEARS)and their technology is not for sale.

France has safe nuclear power and we need to really look at how they make it work.

Again, name one person who loves to look at those big ugly bird killers as they drive toward Oak Ridge?

While looking at the map, did anyone else notice the fact that Knoxville/Oak Ridge/Morristown was the only place in the south to still show a hint of red?

Where the hell is all that pollution coming from. Being a native of Morristown, it was always said that Hamblen County was one of the top polluting counties in the country, but until I saw that map, I didn't believe it. I also assume Knoxville and Oak Ridge add to the blot o' red too.

PS - My apologies if this has been mentioned before but I haven't read through all the 60-something replies yet.

So true the only ones that work are located on The Farm (middle TN group started it years ago and they have invented a hell of a generator that TVA has tried to buy for YEARS)and their technology is not for sale.

You know this too??? Right on, LV!!! Just like the 100MPG cars that GM would like to sell but the oil companies won't let them!!! That is SO not cool, since WE really need those cars NOW!

Again, name one person who loves to look at those big ugly bird killers as they drive toward Oak Ridge?

Me, actually. And a Republican friend who's an avid bird watcher.

Me, actually."

you are pulling my leg, you really thing those white things on the ridge look better than trees?

As for your 100mpg cars..are they at area 51?