Sat
May 19 2012
08:33 pm

4th Sector Solutions Inc is focused on providing administrative and financial support for charter schools (and real estate acquisition, too).

Click on their site's "about us" tab, though, to glimpse the larger coalition of "fourth sector" ideologues, who proclaim that "the boundaries between the public, private, and social sectors are blurring...a Fourth Sector is emerging."

FastCompany explains their shared titillation thusly:

...an investor-like donor isn't an investor, just as venture philanthropy isn't venture capital and recent attempts to create nonprofit "stock markets" aren't actually stock markets...Ultimately, these innovations still rely on tapping the philanthropic urge.

There's far greater upside in the prospect that investors could actually make money from the social sphere.

Like we weren't on to that already.

What was news to me, though, was the legal device they've conceived to effect their goal, namely to co-opt a groundswell of public support--especially among liberals--for B Corporation legislation.

Daily Kos and Mother Jones are effusing that a state-by-state expansion of B Corporation laws has already enabled 450 leading businesses nationally to "influence the market beyond the scope of their individual businesses." Media are touting the far-reaching social and environmental good to be had when companies prescribing to the certification criteria required to become B Corporations can be more easily identified and supported as such by consumers. That sounds like good stuff.

BUT B Corp legislation was born of the Aspen Institute, a decidedly right-leaning think tank. Its board is representative of the Hoover Institution, the Koch Brothers, and a whole lotta hedge fund managers. Its funding comes from the Carnegie, Rockefeller, and Ford Foundations. Even among the three young men to have begun this push for B Corporation laws, one of them is an Aspen Institute Henry Crown Fellow who serves on the board for KIPP and another is a partner in MSD Real Estate Capital, which acronym stands for "Michael and Susan Dell."

Given who its creators and major supporters are, it's perfectly clear that B Corporations are one more device the privatizers intend to employ in their quest.

For the life of me, though, I'm not sure I'm understanding how they'll employ them. Is their thought only to polish their public images, so that they may generate higher sales, so that they may funnel more profits into their privatization efforts?

All I know for sure is that their ultimate goal, as FastTrack characterized it, is to "make money from the social sphere."

Edit (12 hours later): Eureka! The reason for my confusion as expressed above is due to the fact that there are TWO groups out there these days touting TWO very different concepts of “B Corps.” The very important distinction between the goals of the two groups is explained in comments, so please read on.

Stick's picture

Wow! This is a new one to

Wow! This is a new one to me... Your ability to read through all of the crazy is impressive.

Thanks for digging this up, Tamara.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Don’t thank me too fast, Stick. Per the edit I just added to my original blog post, I have discovered just this morning the reason I was so confused in my reading last night…

It appears that there are TWO groups out there these days touting TWO very different concepts of “B Corps.”

Per this blog from a woman identifying herself as a charity attorney, a “Certified B Corporation” is not any new concept, nor is it any new legal form, nor is it a legal form at all.

Rather, it is simply a business entity –whether a sole proprietorship, a C corporation, an LLC or a business of some other form—which has agreed to submit its business practices with regard to matters of social responsibility to the review of an independent third party known as a “B Lab.” The “B Lab,” in turn, either certifies or does not certify the business’ practices as meeting “B Corp” standards. If the business does meet “B Corp” standards, it is then able to display its “B Corp” seal of approval (conferred by the B Lab) on the face of its product packaging.

This original concept of a “B Corp” is the one supported by Daily Kos/Mother Jones (and me).

However, the “B Corp” concept being advanced by the Aspen Institute is a different animal altogether.

Unlike the innocuous “Certified B Corporation” described above, the Aspen Institute is proposing legislation to actually introduce a new form of business entity known as a “benefit corporation.” In order to advance their concept of this new legal entity, the Aspen Institute has essentially stolen the “B Corp” vernacular of the “Certified B Corporation” folk--whose “product” is widely esteemed—and used that vernacular to describe their own very different agenda.

Which appears to be to create a new corporate entity able to usurp from government certain of its present functions—and get a tax break for doing it.

Which appears to be what you and I would call “privatizing.”

I’m only about ¼ through the Aspen-affiliated group’s 60-page White Paper, here, but I skipped ahead to see if this notion was going where I thought it was going. I think it is.

(Still reading today and won’t be commenting for a bit yet…)

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Holy. Shit.

Cut to the chase and read "model legislation" in pdf pages 30 through 50. Again, White Paper is here.

We are invited to continue participating in our democracy to the extent of our status as being shareholders in a given "benefit corporation."

We will be told annually by the "benefit corporation" of the manner in which the "benefit corporation" has benifitted us personally.

We need not worry that the "benefit corporation" might not produce any benefit at all, as the "benefit corporation" will self-police.

And this thing has passed in seven states.

Holy. Shit.

Zach's picture

Tamara, When do the black

Tamara,

When do the black helicopters full of ALEC storm troopers show up?

fischbobber's picture

Scary

What's scarier than black helicopters is shills screaming for lobbyers rights while trying to shut down public access to facts. Nothing is worse than those participating in our legislative process that depend on the ignorance of the general population in order to advance their agenda.

You are despicable Zach, and a scourge to the earth.

Zach's picture

Public facts

Exactly what public facts are hidden from you? The last time I checked every piece of legislation is available in real time before it is voted upon by elected officials we get to vote for or against. I believe most meetings are available on line and public TV. Legislation and Resolutions have and always will be written by interested parties in advance then attorneys hired by the officials we elect put them in the correct format. The answer is the ballot box and I am prepared to live with the results. Are you?

alan swartz's picture

Dramatic much? What is

Dramatic much? What is despicable Bobber is people who have to censor people they don't agree with.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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§ 302. Benefit director.

(b) Election, removal and qualifications. –

The benefit director shall be elected, and may be removed, in the manner provided by [cite provisions of the business corporation law on the election and removal of directors generally], and shall be an individual who is independent.

Since it doesn't appear in existing statute relating to corporations, I guess "benefit corporations" will want to ensure in their bylaws that all proxies submitted for the purpose of removing an officer must include shareholders' photo IDs?/snark

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Post under your first and last names, weasel.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Do you understand that if a private entity like a corporation is performing a function formerly performed by government AND you happen not to be a shareholder in that corporation, your ability as a citizen to impact on how that function is performed is lessened or precluded altogether?

Do you understand that if multiple private entities like corporations are performing multiple functions formerly performed by government AND you happen not to be a shareholder in any of them, you're SOL?

Even if you personally were able to continue participating in your government in such a scenario, do you have any concern that others might not be able to participate?

Do you support a trend toward civic participation being linked to one's "ability to pay?"

Barker's picture

hey

I don't pretend to have your knowledge of these organizations, but I can contribute something.

In Tennessee, when a private organization, whether for-profit or not-for-profit, is the "functional equivalent" of a public body, it must adhere to the Open Meetings Act and the Public Records Act. CCA lost a landmark state Supreme Court case on this matter a couple of years ago.

A charter school falls under the same restriction - it is a private group that is performing a public function (the operation of public schools). And in Knox County, the school board is requiring more by insisting that two school board members serve on any charter school board. Having two school board members on the charter school board reinforces the public meetings act requirements.

I'm not saying this should allay all fears of organizations wanting to operate charter schools, but it does indicate that while there might be a lessening of public control, there would be no loss of public accountability.

I think I've said this before, but the best way to keep charter schools out of the Knox County school system is to improve Knox County Schools to the point that there is no demand for charter schools.

fischbobber's picture

Public Facts

Exactly what public facts are hidden from you?

Who are you?

Zach's picture

I am someone who could add

I am someone who could add much to this conversation if you are willing to consider a different point of view.

Stick's picture

Then reply to Tamara's

Then reply to Tamara's questions... They are valid ones in need of enlightenment from your beacon of truth.

Heather Van Dusen's picture

Corrections: Certified B Corp vs. Benefit Corp and B Lab's Role

Hello,

This is Heather at B Lab. There seems to be some confusion about B Corp vs. benefit corp, the role of B Lab, etc, so if I may:

Certified B Corporations are businesses which have met high social and environmental performance standards as well as higher legal accountability standards. The certification is run by B Lab, which has an independent board and Standards Advisory Committees which set the certification requirements.

Benefit corporations are a sub-type of corporation which is recognized in 7 states and is pending in several others. Benefit corporations are recognized by the state; must have a purpose of creating general public benefit; are accountable to creating said general public benefit; and must report annually on their social and environmental impact using a third party standard.

Benefit corporations are not designed to take the place of services currently performed by the government. They are designed so that mission-driven entrepreneurs have a way to maintain that mission over time. There are no tax implications of electing benefit corporation status. Some examples of current benefit corporations are Patagonia, King Arthur Flour, and Greyston Bakery.

B Lab both certifies B Corporations and helps facilitate the passage of benefit corporation legislation at the state level. B Lab is an independent nonprofit; we are not funded by Aspen, and you can find a complete list of our funders at (link...). More information on Certified B Corps can be found at (link...), and more information on benefit corporations can be found at (link...).

Stick's picture

Thanks for your post... Maybe

Thanks for your post... Maybe you could help us clarify some things:

It appears that 4th Sector [the subject of this post] is a B Corp. If this is the case, it is a business that provides "turn key" back operations for charter schools. This would indicate that it is, indeed, a business designed "to take the place of services currently performed by the government." Charters schools began life as a relatively good idea of creating schools that are run by educators and have turned into a mechanism for privatization. Isn't it possible for the B corp to go the same route?

Could you expand on this...?

Heather Van Dusen's picture

So, first of all, 4th Sector

So, first of all, 4th Sector is neither a Certified B Corp nor a benefit corporation; it simply links to our site in a general area about how to learn more about 4th sector organizations.

Second, while it is theoretically possible that somewhere down the line someone could manipulate the benefit corp structure, there are several safeguards against that. Since benefit corporations must be transparent, it enables people to make their own decisions about the company. And importantly, unlike charter schools, benefit corporations are not recipients of government money (unless they are vendors for the government, in which case it's still a straightforward transaction).

Stick's picture

Again, thanks for the reply.

Again, thanks for the reply. Couple of things:

4th Sector is neither a Certified B Corp nor a benefit corporation

So, 4th Sector is a for-profit company providing "back end" charter school services. Is this correct?

[W]hile it is theoretically possible that somewhere down the line someone could manipulate the benefit corp structure, there are several safeguards against that.

Could you elaborate on this? What safeguards? Where is the line between private, proprietary information and public accountability drawn? How is it policed? It appears as though individual states are crafting their own legal language on B-corps, so I'm curious has to what safeguards are in place and how they are enforced.

This is all new information to me, and I'd love some clarification.

alan swartz's picture

Heather

Thank you for bringing some clarity. Pay no attention to the tone of some of the people here. They get dramatic for no reason. Once their minds are made up they become resistant to new information.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Thank you, Heather, but the only information in your post that was new to me (per my other comments above) was that B Lab is now involved with advancing "benefit corporations," too. I had understood that the party advancing benefit corporations was separate.

You are either unaware or mistaken, though, if you think the Aspen Institue has not designed and advanced B Corp's benefit corporation legislation.

Here is their report on their Forum on Social Enterprise, from 2005, in which they establish the following goals for their work in the coming years (pdf page ii):

Developed by the Aspen Institute's Nonprofit Sector and Philanthropy Program in collaboration with the
Democracy Collaborative at the University of Maryland, “Enterprising Organizations” brought together representatives of entrepreneurial nonprofits, investors, foundation donors, elected officials, scholars, reporters,
and others who play critical roles in this evolving landscape to:

explore the current “profit-for-social-benefit”models;
• establish new networks among participants;
• share technical information and experience;
• formulate outreach and public relations strategies; and
identify ways to develop and advance this emerging sector of hybrid organizations.

In addition to new, valuable connections among attendees, what emerged from this gathering was a list of
ideas for advancing this growing field of hybrid institutions. These recommendations, along with information
on the various new institutional forms and comments from reporters and policymakers, are included in
this meeting summary. The Nonprofit Sector and Philanthropy Program of the Aspen Institute hopes to
implement several of these action items over the next few years.

As you know, B Corps was founded one year later, in 2006.

That same page of the Aspen Institute's report on its Social Enterprise program indicates the endeavor's funders:

Thanks also to our other funders - the Carnegie Corporation of New York, Ford Foundation, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,William Randolph Hearst Foundation,W.K.
Kellogg Foundation
, Charles Stewart Mott Foundation, The David and Lucile Packard Foundation, and
Surdna Foundation.

Each of the funders indicated in bold/italicized print is presently driving so-called "education reform" efforts nationwide via grantmaking to non-profits. Only Michael and Susan Dell are missing from that list.

Each of these funders indicated, though, would obviously recognize a financial benefit in the Aspen Institute helping to enact for-profit "benefit corporations" on a state-by-state basis.

Furthermore, your own B Corp website indicates that all three of B Corp's founders--Jay Coen Gilbert, Bart Houlahan, and Andrew Kassey--are Henry Crown Fellows with the Aspen Institute.

And finally, your own B Corp website also indicates that Gilbert serves on the board of Philadelphia Kipp and Kassey is a partner in MSD Real Estate Capital, which is the $12 billion Michael and Susan Dell real estate trust. Oh, there are Mike and Sue, then!

Heather, possibly you are genuinely hoodwinked, but this B Corp program that began as such a good and altruistic idea has been derailed by parties now intent on profiting from their corporate takeover of the U. S. public school system, period.

Zach, if you were also hoodwinked--well, I had you pegged as pretty wet behind the ears, already.

Heather Van Dusen's picture

You are correct that the

You are correct that the three cofounders of B Lab are Crown Fellows, and therefore I did not feel a need to clarify that. I just wanted to make sure people got accurate information about what is a B Corp, a benefit corp, etc, since people are often confused about that.

Everything that we do, including our funders, board, standards advisory councils, standards, etc is transparent. You're free to make whatever conclusions you'd like, I'm just making sure the facts that are reported are accurate.

Stick's picture

Furthermore, your own B Corp

Furthermore, your own B Corp website indicates that all three of B Corp's founders--Jay Coen Gilbert, Bart Houlahan, and Andrew Kassey--are Henry Crown Fellows with the Aspen Institute.

Lordy, lordy...

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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I think I've said this before, but the best way to keep charter schools out of the Knox County school system is to improve Knox County Schools to the point that there is no demand for charter schools.

Which reminds me, we need to examine the donations to all school board and commission candidates.

Per that Ed Week article I linked a week or so back, we're quite aware of the presence these several "ed reform" groups have in TN these days and they're funding local candidates hand over fist elsewhere.

I have a note to search out the names of their 501(c)(4) organizations, as I know only that Teach for America's is called Leadership for Educational Equity.

So long as we can hold onto an elected school board--and they're disappearing fast--we need to ensure that we know well all the folks who are serving.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Hey, my apologies, folks, for having made this topic more confusing than it had to be.

As I explained previously, I was confused in my reading at B Corps own site, because the two ideas being promoted there (altruism v. personal profit) seemed so at odds with one another.

I therefore left that site and began reading about B Corps/benefit corporations elsewhere, which caused me to try to piece together who backed which of the two notions.

Reading at multiple sites was also what caused me to conclude that I was reading about two different entities, one supporting altruism and the other intent on profiteering.

Had I just stuck with my reading at B Corps' own site, I would likely have pieced it all together sooner--to conclude that it's actually just this one (schizophrenic) organization.

Anyway, please carry on.

fischbobber's picture

Nice claim

Prove it.

Edit: This comment is in reply to Zach.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Legislation for benefit corporations failed in Colorado last week--but look who was pushing it.

Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper, you may recall, is the other governor to serve with Haslam on that four-member federal education committee, along with Senators Michael Bennett (also from Colorado) and Lamar Alexander.

Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper knows Colorado Senator Michael Bennett from the time Hickenlooper was Denver mayor and Bennett was his Chief of Staff.

Bennett was subsequently appointed as Superintendent of Schools to the Denver system, where he implemented that merit pay system for teachers in 2005.

Denver's current Superintendent of Schools, Tom Boasberg, is the TFA grad I suggested previously might well be acquainted with our TFA grad in the TN Department of Education.

When we were talking about this federal panel here at KV last year, Hickenlooper had just proposed cutting Colorado's education budget by $332 million.

Anyway, the Colorado proposal didn't fail because anyone out there recognized it as a back door method for privatizing schools (and any other government function), but over some other petty and unrelated bickering between political parties.

I've been reading Colorado newspapers tonight and they don't seem to have any clue what this legislation is really about, either.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Alan, I don't see that Heather offered any "new information" beyond correcting me on the point that B Labs is pushing both "b corporation certification" and legislation to create "benefit corporations."

In every other regard, she did not (and could not) dispute my assertions as to the role of the Aspen Institute (and Koch Industires and the Hoover Institution and a buncha hedge fund managers) in this push and my assertion as to the potential for the legislation to accelerate privitazation of public schools (and other public institutions).

In what regard do you see that she "clarified" any of these points tremendously concerning to me?

alan swartz's picture

Difficult to have real dialog

Difficult to have real dialog when newcomers are screamed at and blocked. So far Heather has one post. I wonder if she will post again?

Stick's picture

Alan, you do realize that

Alan, you do realize that people are employed to shore up the brand from online criticism, right? She offered no clarifications and actually attempted to mislead by implying that Aspen and other right wing policy groups are not involved in their "advocacy".

Since you're all about clarification, perhaps you could respond to Tamara?

alan swartz's picture

Yes, I have heard of PR

Yes, I have heard of PR people. I think Mike Cohen does that. Yes, they come online. They are paid to.

I am more interested in learning why the Knox BOE did not disclose in this year's budget that they spend $518.85 million dollars.

(link...)

That is more interesting to me that some conspiracy about the Koch brothers. Which is more interesting to you?

Stick's picture

Called out... changed

Called out... changed subject.

Perhaps you could start a new thread on Title I funding?

alan swartz's picture

"Perhaps you could start a

"Perhaps you could start a new thread on Title I funding?"

So the fact that McIntyre understated how much Knox Schools spent by $134 million dollars when he is begging for $35 million dollars a year for dubious projects is not significant to you?

McIntyre isn't what he was sold as. You and Tamara seem to only care about McIntyre and 'privatizing of schools'. How is it the bigger issues don't register?

I cannot create a thread. But if you will do so I will comment on it.

R. Neal's picture

I would like to see some

I would like to see some documentation backing up this $518 million that Knox Co. Schools spent, according to a WATE report citing an unnamed source.

Maybe they did, but the KCS budget says $384.67 million and the Mayor's own budget says $384,670,000, which sort of seems to square. The KCS expenditures showed an extra $7.09 million in some kind of one-time grant money that doesn't appear in either total.

Sounds like a Mayor's office talking point that's probably BS, but maybe there's some kind of accounting document that explains it.

alan swartz's picture

.

Page 12 of the BOE budget refers to the $384 million as "Base Budget". I believe WATE has it right.

I agree a source would be helpful.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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I hope that is a rhetorical question?

Forget the Knox BOE.

alan swartz's picture

Did you know they spent $518

Did you know they spent $518 million? I found that to be incredible. That is $134 million dollars more than what they disclosed in their budget. If WATE had not aired the story, would anyone know?

R. Neal's picture

Where's the evidence of the

Where's the evidence of the $518 million, other than WATE's anonymous source?

alan swartz's picture

.

"Where's the evidence of the $518 million, other than WATE's anonymous source?"

I know of none. But this site consistently has higher budget numbers than the BOE. I had always thought state and federal dollars were why.

(link...)

Maybe a Commissioner will ask the question today at 5:00 pm and we cannot find out what is what.

R. Neal's picture

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Well, that's certainly a reliable looking source.

alan swartz's picture

Why would you disparage it?

Why would you disparage it? If the BOE has hidden $134 million dollars from view that should be front page news. You aren't defending this "base budget" scam are you?

R. Neal's picture

No, just still waiting for

No, just still waiting for you or WATE or Burchett or whoever to produce the evidence.

Update's picture

Chris Caldwell update

"No, just still waiting for you or WATE or Burchett or whoever to produce the evidence."

Chris Caldwell sent an email to all County Commissioners today confirming the $518.85 million dollar per year figure from WATE. WATE was correct. The BOE spent $518.85 million dollars last year.

Ask your Commissioner for details.

fischbobber's picture

A heretic named Connie F

Used this source while screaming at me over the internet. There doesn't appear to be a homepage, just random charts showing imaginary numbers that can be found no where else.

She said I was arrogant and it hurt my feelings when the Sentinel blocked my comment pointing out that she was stupid. Carry on.

alan swartz's picture

Bobber, "random charts

Bobber, "random charts showing imaginary numbers that can be found no where else"?

What's with all the drama?

One chart was a projection. The others were sourced. You claim to be a former journalist. You know about sources, right? As far as screaming goes, your treatment of new posters here is nothing to brag about.

Since you supposedly were a former journalist, what about the Sentinel and the Shopper running from the $518 million dollar story? If the fee offices played the "base budget" scam you would demand a story wouldn't you? What is the difference here?

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Well, that's certainly a reliable looking source.

(Off-topic)

That's Vic Spencer's data. He's written an education column or two for the Focus (since I ceased to) and posts quite a bit at the KNS School Matters blog (since I left as a moderator).

I'm pretty upset with McIntrye myself, these days, but it's nevertheless the case that I've pointed out to Vic several times his unfairness in blaming McIntyre for a recent dip in ACT scores. It was in the 2009-2010 school year that all TN high school juniors became required to take the test, whether or not they're college bound, and McIntyre really did predict for parents/taxpayers that this dip would be the short-term impact to aggregate scores.

Vic apparently doesn't care to modify his site, though...

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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I wouldn't give it a second thought, Bob.

Back on topic and looking over this list of B Lab funders Heather supplied, here are some projects those funders are funding:

$5,000,000 - $2,500,000 Category

--The Rockefeller Foundation: "education reform"

$2,499,000 - $1,000,000 Category

--Deloitte LLP: Renaissance Schools
--Halloran LLP: Village Capital ("ed reform" grantor)
--The Prudential Foundation: Newark, NJ "public charter school movement"

$999,999 and Less Categories

Sigh. I really don't have time for this...but just off the top of my head I can tell you that the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation funds LEAP schools, RSF Social Finance funds charters, Annie E. Casey Foundation funds TONS of charters, Calvert Foundation funds charters, etc. Look it up yourselves.

Meanwhile, I found lots of opposition to this push for benefit corporation legislation, too.

The "Benefit Corporation in California (Met) Chill in San Francisco", I saw, particularly by the California Association of Nonprofits (CAN):

“We’re not against the existence of these corporations. We’re against them getting nonprofit-like preferences, without nonprofit-like restrictions and oversight,” said (Jan) Masaoka (CEO for CAN).

But this guy at Biznik I thought was especially insightful:

What's required is a shift in consciousness, not a shift in legal entity status. Once again I fear we are treating the symptoms instead of the cause.

And any time we legislate less accountability in corporate governance, by not allowing shareholders to bring suit against directors, I get nervous.

I can't help but feel that somewhere in lower Manhattan there's a group of very clever characters already figuring out a way to manipulate this to their advantage.

Well, he was almost right. The "very clever characters" are in Wichita, Kansas.

fischbobber's picture

Sourced?

One thing one quickly learns in journalism is that if one can't cross-source a number in a timely manner, it generally means ,at best, that the person throwing a stat around is wasting your time.

You, Connie F. and WATE seem to be doing the same thing with your 518 million dollar story. If you were legit, you would not have to play these "wait for it......wait for it" games.

Put the numbers out and explain yourself otherwise return to interior optical exploration of the lower intestine that you obviously excel at.

The charts weren't sourced. They had an internet address that went only to the chart.

alan swartz's picture

no more waiting for Bobber, Barker, or Clark

'You, Connie F. and WATE seem to be doing the same thing with your 518 million dollar story. If you were legit, you would not have to play these "wait for it......wait for it" games.'

Bobber,

You claim to be a journalist. Here is a big story with a headline, "Knox County Schools understates total spending by $134 million dollars".

To be fair, Dr. McIntyre did say the total spending was $420 million dollars at one time when questioned by a Commissioner. So it would also be acceptable to have the headline, "Knox County Schools understates total spending by $98 million dollars".

Since you are the "journalist" and I am only a commenter, you can make the call. Which figure should the Knoxville News Sentinel, the Shopper News, and the Metro Pulse use? You do expect a story don't you? Since this is a big story of a big coverup.

Read the total spending below and tell me if the either headline is wrong. And say it with me Bobber, HALF A BILLION DOLLARS.

Sent in an email from my Commissioner:

Fiscal Year 2012

General Purpose Schools 384,670,000

School Construction 20,044,263

Cafeteria Fund 24,310,642

Grants (FY11)* 85,738,627

Great Schools 2,641,841

Kindergarten Intervention 1,182,000

Total 518,587,373

* Total Educational grants from the 2011 Single Audit Report

Fiscal Year 2013

397,710,000

20,500,000

25,992,842

85,738,627

2,601,874

1,182,000

533,725,343

* Total Educational grants from the 2011 Single Audit Report

fischbobber's picture

This

Sent in an email from my Commissioner:

is not a source.

Barker's picture

ha!

Alan, your conflation of year to year budgets would be fun to watch if it weren't an example of the dangers of a little knowledge.

The 2011 audit concerns the 2010-11 budget year, not the 2011-12 budget year (the current one) or the 2012-13 budget year (the one under consideration). Yes, there were a lot of federal grants in 2010-11 from the recovery act and race to the top. Those monies are gone now. That is not an overstatement of money available for next year (2012-13).

The Great Schools Partnership has never been considered part of the school system and its funding has never been included in the schools budget. The cafeteria fund is funded by the federal school lunch program and by student lunch purchases, not local or state tax money. That's one reason it's separate from the schools' general fund.

In other words, it's apples and oranges. If the oranges (cafeteria fund, great schools, etc.), then the price and quality of the apples is all that matters.

alan swartz's picture

HALF A BILLION DOLLARS of total spending

That Scott Barker would not reveal.

That fischbobber refuses to accept.

You people have zero credibility. You cover for a man poor mouthing while he spends a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS a year.

How can anyone trust McIntyre after this budget?

fischbobber's picture

Grants (FY11)*85,738,627

"21st Century Learning Centers (Afterschool Program)
$388,000 will be financed with Federal-to-state money. Snacks will be provided by the nutritional state program for economically disadvantaged students. Instructor’s base contract salary will be paid by Knox County Schools; after contract hours are a cost of the grant funds.

(link...)

This, I presume, would be a legitimate example of what you are complaining about. Another example would probably be the $25,000 technology grant that my son and his classmates helped their teacher win by working on and participating in a video at his elementary school two years ago. This is why you are full of shit Alan. You apparently don't have a clue as to what is actually involved in the day to day process of actively educating children. You post as a person who listens to the day to day whining of exactly the type of slacker that you are advocating firing, yet your solution to the issue is to let slackers slack and drag down everyone. Some people don't belong in the educational system. They are lazy. They are not committed. They are slackers who try to hide their own ineptitude by attempting to drag down others. Do us all a favor. Tell your wife to quit.

That being said, if you wish to continue in the discussion, learn to be specific. A major weakness of modern education is a movement away from critical thinking. You are a prime example of that. Show where the difference in the two numbers you claim are so different lie and explain why your point is valid. "I think the newspaper is doing a shitty job" is not a point of validity in this discussion. Most of us think the newspaper is doing a shitty job, but you are generally viewed as batshit crazy, so it is up to you to be specific to make your point.

Cross reference your sources. I click on your links and none of them are credible. If you are too lazy to back up a point, or find a legitimate reference (please see my opening) perhaps you should be posting in the comments section of the Sentinel.

We understand where you are coming from, but don't feel that it is a legitimate reason to destroy the Knox County education system. Have a pleasant evening.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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(Off-topic)

Could be a source if we wrested it away from the commissioner in question.

An elected official's e-mail sent to a constituent and commenting on a matter of government is a public record (as former Ninth District Commissioner Victoria DeFreese learned a few years back).

Meanwhile, Alan, this thread is the spot for crazed conspiracy theorists to discuss the privatization of government now sleathily underway.

I just created a new spot for you to post about the schools budget, though:

New $44,000 TV ad to air in support of Knox County Schools budget

fischbobber's picture

Good point

(likewise off topic)

Though the somewhat obtuse point I was trying to make is that Alan tends to hide the sources of his information to the point that rational people would tend to doubt their validity on presentation alone. Furthermore he seems to have a singleminded goal of being so outrageous that he can invalidate any said discussion be crying "censorship!" when his banal cries for attention achieve their rightful banishment. I would be curious to see the entire e-mail, if in fact, it even exists, which I doubt.

More on topic, I would like to see detailed compensation proposals for instructors, coaches, and certified teachers within these private models, keeping in mind that labor laws will have to be taken into consideration. I am continually amazed at the amount of donated time that is involved with teaching in the public sector. I also tend to be shocked at the amount of money that those of us that are considered, active involved parents actually spend on what would be called tuition, in the private sector.

Catherine M's picture

"I would be curious to see

"I would be curious to see the entire e-mail, if in fact, it even exists, which I doubt."

Why don't you call your County Commissioner Mr. fischbobber? One of the posts said every Commissioner was notified by email by the Finance Director of Knox County.

WATE reported this. Are you saying they lied? You admit that you banished Alan? That it was rightful? You are censoring a big story. Is this representative of "Support our Schools"?

Shame on you.

bizgrrl's picture

Why should fischbobber spend

Why should fischbobber spend the time asking about an email that swartz and update say is around? Why don't swartz and update produce the email they claims to have been sent?

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Personally, I don't expect the anonymous poster "Update" would have specifically mentioned Interim Finance Director Chris Caldwell by name if Caldwell hadn't sent the e-mail.

Any e-mail Caldwell sent to commissioners is a public record and anyone could request it, I'd think?

Well, Mr. Caldwell has been kind enough to answer a question or two for me over the years, so I'll just phone tomorrow and ask if I might receive a copy of the e-mail.

If he can oblige me, I'll copy it here.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

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Alan, there are two other threads open here on which your comments about the local school budget request are more apropos.

Please consider posting there.

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