Mon
Jul 18 2011
11:08 am

There are communities around the country trying to manage community development to "ensure the protection and preservation of the quality of life experienced by residents and visitors." One of those communities is Lake Mary, FL, where we lived for over ten years. Another is the City of Port Orange, FL, which we visited on a recent trip.

I have been meaning to make this post since our return. It is even more relevant after reading Lisa Starbuck's post on signs in Knoxville.

Dunlawton Avenue is a major thoroughfare from I-95 to Daytona Beach. It is a six lane road with lots of businesses on either side. Due to Port Orange's Land Development Codes, the community and commercial district looks like this.


(Click image for more)

Some of Port Orange's Land Development Codes include:

  • Minimum landscape buffer requirements (20 to 50 feet, depending on type of developement and road),
  • Minimum landscape buffer length (entire length of the property boundary abutting the right-of-way with exceptions for access ways, drainage, etc.
  • Minimum landscape buffer planting requirements (10-50 ft buffer, 2-8 shade trees, 2-8 understory trees, 30-60 shrubs per 100 lineal feet)
  • Parking landscaping (10% of the parking/vehicular use area, with exceptions)
  • Minimum parking landscaping requirements (one shade tree or two understory trees for every 300 square feet) with shrubs planted along dividers separating parking from access drives.
  • Signs (One sign, 48 sq ft area, max height = 8 ft, min setback from ROW = 5 ft, sign cabinet must be mounted on a decorative base, etc.)

Not to say that there are not poorly planned areas in both of these communities. They key is both communities are working hard to plan for better, livable communities.

JeanJo's picture

This kind of community scare

This kind of community scare me.

Les casinos en ligne s'imposent comme les meilleurs sites pour gagner de l'argent.

Rachel's picture

This kind of community makes

This kind of community makes me envious.

Average Guy's picture

signs = bell ringing

McDonald’s refers to signs not by height, but by dollar amount. They point to sign, and say “that’s a million dollar unit”. They have made a science correlating sign height with revenue.

The problem isn’t businesses doing what’s best for their bottom lines; the problem is the Pavlovian conditioning of the broader consumer market.

I’d bet you a Happy Meal toy you’re not going to change that. And the multibillion dollar “big sign” using industries would bet you’d go broke trying.

Lisa Starbuck's picture

Expectations

It all comes down to the community's expectations and standards. If you expect/allow big and ugly, that's what you'll get. All the major chains, whether fast food or big boxes, have different storefronts and signage that they use depending on what the location allows.

In other words, they'll put in a nice store with a low sign if they have to because that's what is expected - otherwise, you get the big sign and the cheapest storefront if they can get away with it.

That's why I'm saying we need to revisit our signage ordinances and raise our expectations. If we continue to allow giant signs, it leads to an arms race where the signs get bigger and brighter as they try to outdo the next sign.

Rachel's picture

All the major chains, whether

All the major chains, whether fast food or big boxes, have different storefronts and signage that they use depending on what the location allows.

They sure do. Back recently from a trip to Oregon, where I saw all kind of big boxes in downtown Portland, all built like urban stores, not suburban ones.

The big boxes has alternate models in their portfolios. They just won't use 'em unless they have to.

Factchecker's picture

This kind of community scare

This kind of community scare me.

What about it you scared of?

Somebody's picture

That's all well and good for

That's all well and good for new development, but are there any examples where a community has actually put the genie back in the bottle and managed to cause forests of giant signs to shrink?

If you attempt to put in place new requirements community-wide, it's hard to require that anyone replace existing signage, and it would probably actually incentivize sprawl to grandfather in existing signs but require someone who opens up next door to adhere to new rules. They might just look at their comparative disadvantage at the infill location and instead choose to go to a new greenfield development, where at least all the neighbors are on even ground, signage-wise.

bizgrrl's picture

If this is the case you are

If this is the case you are referring to, Cary, NC, is possibly an unusual circumstance. I'm not sure a federal judge would rule that Wal-Mart had a constitutional right to have a large sign.

bizgrrl's picture

It's a good thing Port Orange

It's a good thing Port Orange came up with these ordinances 20 years ago, as did Lake Mary, and probably a lot of other concerned municipalities, e.g. Germantown, TN.

You have to start somewhere. I'm sure there are communities that are trying to fix existing problems. Port Orange is working on it in the Ridgewood section. With all of the empty stores around here, I think there must be other reasons for building in new locations. Why not get it right the second time? And, if good ordinances are put in place maybe "sprawl" won't be so prevalent.

Rachel's picture

Any changes to the sign

Any changes to the sign ordinance here would almost certainly grandfather in existing signs.

BTW, McDonalds on Cumberland is getting ready to take down their pole sign and put up a monument one. Kudos to them.

And I doubt that inability to erect a ginormous sign is going to run any business out of Knox County. That's always the threat when these kind of moves are proposed, and they rarely materialize.

Lisa Starbuck's picture

Grandfathering Signs

Although larger signs would probably be grandfathered, one approach that would eventually remove many of them is to require that on-premise signs come down if the business that is being advertised changes. So for example, a large sign advertising "Kroger" would have to come down if Kroger is no longer operating there.

Another approach is called amortization, whereby the business owner keeps to keep the sign only for so many years and then it is retired after they have received the full "value" of it.

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