Tue
Jul 22 2014
09:30 am

From the NY Times …

Banks and private equity firms searching for high-yield investments have fueled a boom in subprime auto loans to buyers who can’t afford them, including those who recently filed for bankruptcy

No Credit? No Problem

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Average Guy's picture

Those who forget history,

are doomed to repeat it.

That unless, the doom comes with fast cash and a high yield. In that case, screw 'em early and screw 'em often and get paid.

Then again, are we far enough removed from the mortgage subprime crisis to even consider it history?

reform4's picture

They know they'll get bailed out again.

"To big to fail"

And lots of lobbying in advance.

Min's picture

**rolls eyes**

Oh, for God's sake...

Andy Axel's picture

REINFLATE THE BUBBLE!!!

REINFLATE THE BUBBLE!!!

Tess's picture

Good grief

Buying a car is not comparable to buying a house. Must be a slow news day.

Average Guy's picture

The debt may be less, but the situation is the same

People taking loans they can't afford and banks giving loans to people they know can't afford them is a big deal.

But there's a reason neither part of that equation care.

Ultimately, they know it won't cost them anything.

The cost will be left to you and I. Again.

Tess's picture

that would be "you and me" for correct grammar, Average Guy

if that counts anymore. For example, take out the other person and frame the sentence towards yourself and you will see that "the cost would be left to "me" in your sentence rather that "I"." I am just saying that your argument would be stronger if you used the correct English language rules. Otherwise, pfffft!

Tess's picture

And a car and house are NOT in the same league

A car and a house are not equal in purchase risk. Scare on...but you don't scare me.

Mike Knapp's picture

Fraud

is ok with you then as long as it is on home loans?

Andy Axel's picture

For 175% return over sale price?

There's a good reason that car dealers have such a crap public image.

It seems that instead of anyone making anything in this economy, everyone is on the make. Grift is the new currency.

Average Guy's picture

Volume

In the US, there are 115 million homes and 240 million passenger vehicles.

The average US car price is now $31,000.

My grammar not withstanding, does the math scare you?

Ultimately it will be this bubble or something else, so I'll just quote another one of my grammar minders and simply leave you with a; whatevs.

Andy Axel's picture

The article

The explosive growth is being driven by some of the same dynamics that were at work in subprime mortgages. A wave of money is pouring into subprime autos, as the high rates and steady profits of the loans attract investors. Just as Wall Street stoked the boom in mortgages, some of the nation’s biggest banks and private equity firms are feeding the growth in subprime auto loans by investing in lenders and making money available for loans.

And, like subprime mortgages before the financial crisis, many subprime auto loans are bundled into complex bonds and sold as securities by banks to insurance companies, mutual funds and public pension funds — a process that creates ever-greater demand for loans.

The New York Times examined more than 100 bankruptcy court cases, dozens of civil lawsuits against lenders and hundreds of loan documents and found that subprime auto loans can come with interest rates that can exceed 23 percent. The loans were typically at least twice the size of the value of the used cars purchased, including dozens of battered vehicles with mechanical defects hidden from borrowers. Such loans can thrust already vulnerable borrowers further into debt, even propelling some into bankruptcy, according to the court records, as well as interviews with borrowers and lawyers in 19 states.

In another echo of the mortgage boom, The Times investigation also found dozens of loans that included incorrect information about borrowers’ income and employment, leading people who had lost their jobs, were in bankruptcy or were living on Social Security to qualify for loans that they could never afford.

Fiddle dee dee, nothing to see here, no one could have predicted, slow news day.

jbr's picture

Number of cars a person buys in a lifetime

From CNBC …

Avg. Number of New Cars Bought in Lifetime

Pre-recession: 13
Today: 9.4
Source: Polk

Americans Buying Fewer New Cars in Lifetime

C.H. Butcher's picture

Ha!

It was simpler in my day.

Still, the goal is, if you suck a lot of people with only a little money into deals that get over their head, you can rob them blind and leave them with nothing.

It's more complicated now, but that's not a bad thing, as far as I'm concerned.

This new thing of packaging the junk deals up, spraying them with gold paint and selling them as "investments" on Wall Street is pure genius. In my day, they'd shut your ass down and throw you in jail. Now with 'too big to fail,' after screwing people with the original loan deal, you poke 'em a second time in their retirement savings by selling them back their own worthless junk, and finally you get to scrape 'em raw with a corncob a third time by taking a taxpayer-funded bailout to pay your bonuses when the wheels come off. In the end, instead of going to jail like me, you just cut the Justice Department a very small percentage of the profit, admit to nothing, and get ready to do it all over again.

Houses, cars, who the hell cares? There are a lot of people out there with just a little bit of money. Squeeze 'em hard enough (and repeatedly), and you can still get a whole lot of money. My only regret is that I didn't live a generation or two later.

Tess's picture

Yes, there is credit risk

There is always risk in any purchase for the buyer and for the seller.

I think there is a lot of scare news out there right now so that everyone is afraid to do anything or take any risk.

If you need car, this is a great time to buy a car.

I traded in my 12 year old car in December 2013. I had done some online research and had driven through a few lots, but on 12/31, I drove through one of the big car lots in West Knox and "saw" my car.

A nice salesman came out and I said, I want that car... and I pointed to my now car. He was very shocked to say the least.

Anyway, it worked out fine. I used a few tricks up my sleeve and they did too, but I got a good deal. I usually pay cash, but they offered me a fixed, extremely low interest rate for 5 years, which was below what my money is earning in this paltry market. So, it was a better deal for me to finance.

My point is, if you need a car, go looking. Life is full of risk. I hope that you won't agree to purchase anything you can't afford to pay for, but don't be afraid to do what you have to do.

R. Neal's picture

...they offered me a fixed,

...they offered me a fixed, extremely low interest rate for 5 years, which was below what my money is earning in this paltry market.

Please share where you are earning more interest than you pay for a car loan. I'd like to get in on some of that.

Average Guy's picture

Personal

Institutional risk should and could have government oversight.

Instead of oversight, our government is colluding with private commerce.

It's what the lady sneaking up on Hillary Clinton is always railing about.

Knoxgal's picture

Someone needs to get that lady

Someone needs to get that lady involved in this auto loan mess.

By the way, she stated unequivocally yesterday she isn't running. Maybe we should give Hilary one term (I think she'll be too old for a second), then thrust this lady upward.

Average Guy's picture

That's a shame

She'd had my vote.

redmondkr's picture

My first house was a three

My first house was a three bedroom rancher with a full basement built in 1960 on a half acre surrounded by a four foot chain-link fence. I paid the sellers $6000 in cash and took over payments of $138 per month on the $20,000 mortgage. That was the summer of 1971.

In the spring of 1983, I paid $20,000 for a Volvo Turbo sunroof sedan. The dealer gave me a nice coffee cup which still performs flawlessly.

Oh, sorry, I'm wandering again.

zoomfactor's picture

Wow, they saw you coming!

volvo.jpg

redmondkr's picture

You failed to factor in the

You failed to factor in the coffee cup.

Tess's picture

loan rates

Don't know about now, but in December 2013, I was offered 1.99% fixed for five years on a car loan and decided that was a good deal for me.

Factchecker's picture

Businesses scamming the poor,

Businesses scamming the poor, telecom monopolies, net neutrality, out of control tax code, inequality... SQUIRREL!

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