A few weeks ago my youngest son (17) FINALLY decided that he is ready to get his learner's permit. Much discussion has been had over dinners as to why he waited so long. His concerns are that everyone at his school is a crazy driver and he didn't feel safe or comfortable behind the wheel. I am grateful that he is mature enough to know that he wasn't ready to drive yet. When I turned 15 Dad drove me to the the DMV to get my permit. I handed them my birth certificate, took the test and I was good to go. My first drive was through our subdivision and my 'trial by fire' was getting on 'Malfunction Junction' during rush hour. Much like my bro taught me to swim - pushed me in the deep end at Buck's pool and said swim or die. Worked for me.
Anyway, in the school system you have to have documentation from the school administration that states that you have a certain grade point average before even taking the test. With documentation in hand, his school ID, and birth certificate, I took my son to get his permit in Maryville two weeks ago. We were turned away because I didn't have his SS card. I asked If I could give them my fingerprints or a DNA sample instead. Not a good joke to make at the DMV. I suppose I should take him to Hamblin County to get his permit.
We may have to wait a while but maybe I can get my son a learners permit without having to show my tax returns for the last 17 years? Geezzz, I thought I was a citizen and I am pretty sure I gave birth to him in Mobile, AL. Maybe I need to re-read all the red tape for US citizens. I must have missed something.
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Here's more info, and
Here's more info, and specifically documentation requirements.
Looks like it would be easier to apply for a mortgage loan.
This is probably backlash from that 2001 article you linked to, when Tennessee had the most liberal (as in easy) laws in the U.S. for getting a driver's license and it was being abused. The state legislature fixed that a while back.
P.S. It looks like he may
P.S. It looks like he may have to jump through similar hurdles when he registers to vote.
I suppose he is not going to
I suppose he is not going to be able to vote or drive until he is in his 30's. I have his SS# but not the card. My next advenure is the Social Security Adminstration off of Kingston Pike to get a new card issued. What fun!!! Moving many times has it's hazards...stored records etc. Oh well....for those who may be in a similar situation...go to Hamblem County. Maybe they will issue you a voters regristation to boot.
I saw a commenary about
I saw a commentary about Drivers License's on WBIR today. Ergo the post. The link was from 2001...but the issue still remains.
I wish more teenagers would
I wish more teenagers would wait longer until they started driving!
Worked for us
Same here, Brian--and I've become pretty opinionated about it.
Out here in Powell, we've lost an inordinately large number of high school students (close to 20) in fatal car accidents over the last few years. The problem became so extreme, the Powell Business and Professional Association stepped in to begin staging for students an annual "mock wreck"--complete with fire, smoke, wailing sirens, the Jaws of Life gizmo, and real paramedics on scene. And STILL the school issues a larger percentage of student parking permits than any high school in the county! Betty wrote a story in MetroPulse about the "Powell Phenomenon" some time back.
Although we didn't plan it this way, my own daughter didn't get her learners permit until age 17 (after high school graduation) and will get her license next week at age 18 (after her freshman year of college)!
In her case, she had difficulty scheduling driver's ed at her high school because she was in AP classes--for which schools offer just a single section of a given class--starting her sophomore year. Those students therefore have to work in any non-AP classes around the availability of scarce AP course offerings.
We looked at a private driving school for her over two summers, too, but she wound up taking dual enrollment classes at Pellissippi State those two summers, following her sophomore and junior years.
I finally taught her to drive myself and sent her off to an urban college campus (UT-Chattanooga) with a learner's permit and no car.
I gotta say--and she'd agree--it was no big deal. In her college setting, about half of students don't have a car on campus. This past school year, three of the four girls in her dorm apartment didn't.
Now, that's not the case at colleges like ETSU or MTSU, located at the end of interstate off-ramps.
Where she attended, though, her social life wasn't impacted in the slightest and she's now a very mature, responsible driver.
My son, who turns 14 next week, cheekily reminded me the other day that he'll "be driving a car in a year." He's about 54 inches tall, weighs maybe 100 pounds, and even by next year would likely need to sit on a phone book to see over the steering wheel.
I'm thinking wait until age 17 for a permit again, and this go-around I'll call it a plan.
Sadly one of my best friends
Sadly one of my best friends from HS lost her son a few years ago. She lives in Powell. Apparently her son swerved to miss a deer in the road and hit a tree. She drove up to the scene a few minutes after the accident. My heart breaks for her. My heart breaks for any parent who loses a loved one in an auto accident. Again, I am grateful that my son hasn't expressed a desire to drive yet. I am happy to lug him around town.
I waited a year to get my license...
because I couldn't take Driver's Ed the year I turned 16 in high school. The money wasn't in the budget that year for the class.
The thing that really roasts my rump about teenage drivers is the fact that parents go out and buy expensive, POWERFUL cars like Camaros or Mustangs for these kids that are rookies on the roads. Like the kids have the proper judgment to NOT go out and push that car to its limits. I can't tell you how many times I have been passed on the interstate by such a car with a kid at the wheel doing about 95 or 100 MPH. What's wrong with an old beater car that can be used until the kid graduates college? Getting a hot ride for a college graduation present makes a lot more sense to me, by that time the kids should have enough maturity and education under their belts to want to actually live a few years longer.
/curmudgeon mode off
small town midwesterners
Get their license as soon as they can, then go cruising around town, then drinking and driving the backroads later on. Thank goodness I (and everyone else) survived; and, ya'll be grateful you have good kids.
"Cool" parents vs. "calm" ones
At the start of their freshman year, two of the four girls in that dorm apartment had cars on campus. Unfortunately, "Princess," as I called her, totaled hers (as well as a police car) out at Hamilton Place mall while using Daddy's credit card to buy her third new outfit during rush week for her sorority of choice.
Her Mommy and Daddy accompanied her to court and paid her fine and "Princess" did make her sorority. Predictably, though, she got booted a few weeks later after an arrest for public drunkeness. When she went on academic probation by Christmas, Mommy and Daddy elected not to replace the car that school year, but I thought their intervention was probably too little, too late.
I have more stories about "Princess," but you get the point.
Now, I'll confess that my kid, whose high school years were likely quieter than "Princess's," had an experience with underage drinking this past school year, too. In contrast to "Princess," though, my kid volunteered to me her full report about being served at the off-campus home of the president of a collge club she attends.
I commended her for choosing a friend's apartment for the experience over some loosely-managed bar from which she'd have to exit to get home (and reminded her that her parents tend to drink only at home). I also affirmed her decision to limit herself to just one drink (and reminded her that she sees her parents drink only in moderation). I also confessed to her that since the legal drinking age in our era had been 18, not 21, I had partaken of the same adult entertainment at her age. And I reminded her, again, to guard her scholarships and, concern for her continued chastity notwithstanding, to keep those condoms in her purse :-)
I hope you don't disapprove, but I really feel I did all I could do to advise this legal adult of mine who now lives out of town.
I've never been a "cool" parent, but I've tried to be a "calm" one. I like to think on this first parenting try, my kid wound up making better decisions about driving--and about all those other rites of passage--because of it.
For your consideration:
Concerned, I see that your original post here is really more about a cumbersome bureaucratic process for obtaining a learner's permit than it is about teens' difficult rites of passage to adulthood, but...would you indulge me just a few more minutes on this latter related topic?
I found out just yesterday, after the semester's end, that "Princess" (who moved out of the dorm apartment over the Christmas break) hadn't been the only wild child there this past school year. My kid was sharing digs with a daily pot smoker, too, who kept her stash in the dorm.
Now, I'd already stood at the end of "Princess's" nose early in the semester, to calmly inform her that I had no intention of allowing her poor choices to cost my family $50,0000, a reference to my 17 year-old's academic scholarship package of the sort none of her roommates had earned. Unlike "Princess," though, whose campus rules infractions were far less discrete, the daily pot smoker I didn't suspect. Then too, my kid turned 18 early in the semester.
So chew on this, if you would: Absent any instruction from me, my kid's response to the problem wasn't a bad one. She told me she just holed up in her bedroom to study when this roommate and her visitors smoked. She didn't join them in this pretty serious rules infraction, then, and she also kept the peace there in the apartment.
What I don't yet know is how campus security would have treated roommates in the apartment, though, had there been any "bust."
My first thought on hearing this story yesterday was that I should phone campus security anonymously to answer this question and to find out specifically what my kid's obligation was under their rules. My next thought, almost immediately, was that my kid should make that call herself.
Neither of us has yet called this morning, but it seems that my kid has considerations in this question (i.e., her extensive scholarships) that her roommates don't have--and that makes me a bit anxious.
This is the older of my two children, so I've never been down this road before. What say you?
What I don't yet know is how
What I don't yet know is how campus security would have treated roommates in the apartment, though, had there been any "bust."
Until you know otherwise, I would suggest you assume the "roommate" not involved will be treated as if they were involved. How can the police know? Does the "princess" have parents with lots of money and possibly influence? I have found in the past that those with money and good lawyers have a much better chance in life than those who don't, whether or not there is definitive guilt.
Campus security can enter dorm apts
Parents of incoming freshman were informed at their own orientation program last summer that campus security may enter a dorm apartment at any time. I don't recall whether we were told security needed "probable cause."
I might have added that I lack any personal frame of reference in this one. I earned my degree as a commuter student and/or an evening student, so I never lived in a dorm.
(The daily pot smoker wasn't "Princess," but a second roommate.)
I see that your original post
I see that your original post here is really more about a cumbersome bureaucratic process for obtaining a learner's permit than it is about teens' difficult rites of passage to adulthood
Are young people delaying adulthood and responsibility longer than in years past?
I think "yes"
I read somewhere that the average age today's young person becomes financially independent of his/her parents is now 28.
My anecdotal evidence is that I sure know a lot of 20-somethings whose parents are supporting them almost in full as they (the 20-somethings) live in fully-furnished apartments, drive their own cars, and attend college as undergrads and even as grad students.
So my own only-somewhat-informed answer to your question would be "yes."
Same report from a UTK student
And I might have added this aside, too: My daughter sometimes sees a young man attending UT-Knoxville when she's home on breaks.
This young man is also a recipient of UT's top-tier Chancellor's Scholarship, among others, and she says he's contended with the same problem this past school year. His response was also avoidance, she says.
Maybe the problem isn't uncommon, but again, how might campus security at either campus have treated these two "good kids," had any "bust" transpired?
One important reminder!!!
From a recent experience at the local DMV for a learner's permit, if you wait longer than 30 days to return, make sure you request a new letter from the school.
If you look on the letter it states that it is only valid for 30 days!
I think that might be blood red tape.
I was sometimes around a pot
I was sometimes around a pot smoker back when I had a security clearance and I always had a fear of the effect the secondhand smoke would have on a urine specimen.
I don't know how zealous campus police would be but I have a feeling that urinalysis would reveal who is smoking and who is merely trying to breathe in the vicinity.
Thanks, Kenny
Now, there's an observation that gives me peace of mind, Kenny.
If I can determine that a student claiming no involvement in such an incident can request urinalysis, I'll advise my kid that her "avoidance" approach is sufficient next school year--and I can get on with my day!
Blind alley...
Well, I just made that call to campus security myself, after all.
I was right that campus security may enter a dorm apartment at any time, with or without "probable cause."
I was also right in my *suspicion* that all resident students have an obligation to report their roommates' any rules infractions to campus security.
Bizgrrl is therefore right that in any "bust" arising from campus security's entering a dorm apartment, all students residing in the apartment are assumed to either be participants in or have knowledge of the rules infraction in question.
And unfortunately, campus security does not itself offer urinalysis to any student claiming uninvolvement in the infraction.
The chief of security is to call me back to explain specific penalties applicable to both students guilty of rules infractions and students guilty of failing to report the rules infractions of others.
Kinda wish the guy didn't have my name and telephone number, but fifty grand is fifty grand.
Bet your daughter wishes you
Bet your daughter wishes you hadn't posted all of this on a public forum.
50Gs is 50Gs, but the chances of that being yanked were pretty small.
Now they're not so small.
The last word on handling a "drugs-in-dorms" problem
My point, Alex, was just that we parents are sometimes uncertain how to guide our kids through the rocky terrain to adult independence, and that there are instances when our missteps can be quite costly.
My apologies if I seemed gauche to attach a dollar amount to this particular high stakes question, but I've spent a pretty concerned 24 hours trying to research its answer.
I'm back now, though, in the hope that I can save another parent the same concern. In fact, this campus's assistant chief deputy for security just phoned me back and chuckled at the zealousness with which a dispatcher in his office had earlier explained my student's responsibility to get involved in any drugs-in-dorms problem.
Contrary to that dispatcher's implication, the good deputy told us "no," his office cannot require any student to "turn informant," whether or not that student receives institutional aid from the university.
In keeping with the dispatcher's advice to me earlier, he confirmed that "yes," his office routinely acts on tips from both students and parents as to situations possibly requiring site visits to students' dorms. Students reporting such problmes are free to choose whether they care to be present in the dorm during such site visits.
He also advised that students hesitant to become "informants" in situations like my student faced may also contact campus security anonymously or may contact their on-site resident assistant (who, as a campus employee, DOES have an obligation to forward such reports to campus security).
Finally, he did speak to my student at length about the importance of her recognizing any situation in which a rules infraction may be life-threatening for the "rule breaker." You may know that an 18 year-old (who was not a UTC student but who was visiting one living on campus) was found dead of a drug overdose on a campus side street just a few weeks back.
He offered (asked, really) to take a report from either my student or me, but we both declined. I explained that my call was really more to seek advice on how I should instruct my student to handle any similar situation in the future.
I'm glad I called him and I hope maybe my sharing details of my family's experience in this question has been helpful to someone.
(Back to that cumbersome paperwork required to get a learner's permit, ConcernedCitizen. Sorry to have taken us on this tangent for so long.)
Update!
Proper documentation secured. Testing completed. He is good to go! Woo Hoo! Congrats Boo.
Post Script on the Update...
After obtaining his permit in Blount County, I allowed him to drive from Rockford to John Sevier Hwy. and then by South-Doyle H.S. (he has been practicing in our neighborhood for over a year....please forgive me) I only grabbed the steering wheel once, threw up in my mouth once, pee'd my pants twice and did 53 Hail Mary's...and I am a Baptist. Given that he is a gamer he did better than expected. I guess racing games do have a few advantages. Now I need Depends for our next road trip. If it weren't for humor in life where would we be?
In a ...
wet car seat with spit-up in your lap or, if you're a woman, in your purse?