Just linked a thought provoking Steinem column on TennViews...

(link...)

"Men's Movement" is something that belongs in the bathroom. I grew up listening to my father rant about women entering the work force destroying the American family, economy and blah, blah, blah. Don't give misogyny, racism and homophobics more credit than they deserve. Call it what it is. Fear and hate.

Apart from the antics of these attention seeking shock jocks, who got what they wanted and not what they deserved (which is to be ignored by serious media coverage), there does seem to be a subtle, if not covert, anti-feminism strain among the Democratic constituency. From Obama's response to Clinton's claim of experience, which was, if I recall, something along the lines of "well, she didn't hold a cabinet position during her husband's administration," to other references made by anti-Clinton activists, is it anti-Clinton feelings coming across as anti-feminism?

It makes you wonder if the Democratic party will join the Republican party and tear itself apart?

...there does seem to be a subtle, if not covert, anti-feminism strain among the Democratic constituency.

Here we go again. And you wonder why you get treated like a troll?

It makes you wonder if the Democratic party will join the Republican party and tear itself apart?

No, but you obviously hope it will.

You know, I'm an independent, and I was just making a comment that I thought, mistakenly I guess, that someone could thoughtfully address.

Instead I have to read comments by commentators like yourself who really don't have anything to add to the discussion.

Wouldn't it be a better use of your time if you just said "I don't know," or ignored the whole discussion to begin with, rather than expose yourself as being so paranoid of people with differing opinions that they are immediately seen as trolls or "subversives?"

From Obama's response to Clinton's claim of experience, which was, if I recall, something along the lines of "well, she didn't hold a cabinet position during her husband's administration," to other references made by anti-Clinton activists, is it anti-Clinton feelings coming across as anti-feminism?

This is pretty flimsy, to put it mildly. Seems to me Obama was just making the point that she didn't have an official position other than briefly long ago as (GOP-derailed) health care task force leader and First Lady.

How else do you get an impression of this "anti-feminism strain"? And how does that lead you to leap toward speculating that the Dem party will "tear itself apart"?

Seems to me Obama was just making the point that she didn't have an official position other than briefly long ago as (GOP-derailed) health care task force leader and First Lady.

I see your point, but I remember in Pres. Clinton's campaign as them running as a "co-presidency," or more as a team than as a traditional President and First Lady.

How else do you get an impression of this "anti-feminism strain"?

A lot of comments I've read on left-leaning blogs seem to contain some fairly venomous opinions on Clinton. In all fairness, that could be from commentators who are right-wing or Republican oriented, and they're just getting in their attacks. I'm not sure.

I know before the primaries started I talked to a number of friends who are Democrats, and they didn't like Clinton.

But it does seem that since Clinton is a woman, there will be a question if that hurts her or not, not just that all her opposition is driven by anti-war or anti-corporation sentiment.

At least, with so many of the voters being women, aren't some of her supporters likely yo bring it up if they thought it could unify women behind her?

And how does that lead you to leap toward speculating that the Dem party will "tear itself apart"?

Just speculating. How badly does Clinton want to win?

Am I to understand that you attribute these comments to the He-Man Woman Haters club?

You don't understand much, because you don't read enough.

I said:

In all fairness, that could be from commentators who are right-wing or Republican oriented, and they're just getting in their attacks. I'm not sure.

But I guess if you had read the whole comment, you would have had no need for your cute remark.

And I'm not going back and hunt the posts down for you. Most news web sites have such posts, along with sites that carry only political news.

Like I said, anyone can post and comment as anyone, so whether it's indicative of the opinions of people within the Democratic party or not is anybody's guess. Unless you have access to internal polling and such.

I'm undecided.

I'll say it anyway: Many if not most primary races get very competitive. Both parties. And why not? Lots of money, work--and yes--egos and power are at stake. There are easily as many sharp rivalries in the history of the GOP. Remember GHW Bush vs. Reagan? "Voodoo economics," and all. Don't recall anyone wondering whether that signaled an impending implosion of their party.

Though it sure would have been nice if it had.

No, you are a troll. Go away.

Next, I guess next you'll say I'm racist. If this is the strategy Obama's supporters plan to win over undecided voters...good luck.

Don't recall anyone wondering whether that signaled an impending implosion of their party.

Not an implosion, but maybe a transformation.

But did anyone wonder whether the GOP would be torn apart by their rivalry in the primaries? That notion would have been ridiculous.

But did anyone wonder whether the GOP would be torn apart by their rivalry in the primaries?

Maybe "torn apart" was a poor choice of words. But I think the factionalism in a party, where the leaders move closer to a core ideology, results in more fellow travelers considering themselves independents as they feel the party no longer reflects their values.

One side always wins in these contests, and isn't it natural that they promote their beliefs over those on the losing side?

If this is the strategy Obama's supporters plan to win over undecided voters...good luck.

Such deep concern...

____________________________

With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.

I think both parties are having a little family business meeting around the dinner table.

I also think everyone ought to let the parties and their supporters hash out their family business in their own house and not try to read too much in to "he said she said" dinner table squabbles.

R.Neal-

Quite right.

While you're here, do you remember past primaries where independents have played such a pivotal role?

I always assumed (yeah, I know) that independents really didn't matter until the general.

Your thoughts?

Maybe "torn apart" was a poor choice of words.

Moreover, no one characterized Bush Sr's "voodoo economics" accusations as being anti-elderly or age discriminatory because they were directed at Ronnie. Or that they reflected a trend of discrimination throughout the GOP.

So yes, I think you were blowing things up a little, and unfairly so, with your anti-feminism comments.

Given Gary has participated in a number of threads, rather thoughtfully, seems to me he's not a 'troll'. Calling Gary a troll because you disagree or he points out something you don't like is just a cop out. But, I've been called worse than a troll on this blog, so maybe Gary's in good standing.

Gary is obviously a Vols fan.

Wearybottom Associates

Other candidates are planning to get in on this ingenious roust for free publicity etc. I mean why can't others bring in their own plants?

Huckabee is considering: Fleece My Flock

Obama is considering: Pick My Cotton

I guess in the end only the Clinton's could get away with such a sleazy social class warfare stunt such as these. Their sensibility is non-existent and to think this is anything other is ludicrous.

Calling Gary a troll because you disagree or he points out something you don't like is just a cop out. But, I've been called worse than a troll on this blog, so maybe Gary's in good standing.

It's been said CBT that the truth doesn't set people free, it just makes people mad.

I don't mind being called names. I just have to remember how I dealt with it last time it happened...like back in the fourth grade. Which for some around here wasn't that long ago.