Great analysis, plain talk, should be faxed/e-mailed to every commissioner or (better yet) every registered voter.

Larry Van Guilder

does not have a reputation of Bias and distortions. I respect Frank. I would respectfully disagree that it is so simple that if a Commissioner votes against concrete pipes that he or she is developer friendly and bought for by the developers. Look at their entire individual voting record to see if they are always with the developers then slap the developer label on them.

A few questions and I hope you all will treat me nicely in this debate. I could care less personally about concrete pipe but "devil's advocate" questions for all of us to ponder.

1) Who sells and supplies Concrete pipe in this area? Are there multiple vendors? Will this vote enrich a specfic vendor or vendors?

2) What about the reccomendation of Marvin Hammond from HallsDale Powell Utility Disstrict?

Marvin whom I respect has been in the water utility business along time. He said at one of the county commission budget hearings that PVC is the best pipe to use.

I dont know Mr Hammond but if he is an older gentleman that walks with cane he did speak @ a budget hearing concerning his ideas of concrete vs PVC.He made comments in favor of PVC.

I remember the gentleman because he stood at the podium for a long long time without being allowed to speak because the mayors office & the commissioners were asking questions of each other concerning credit cards.I thought them to be rude for asking him to speak & then ignoreing him.

Before one says to much I would advise you to speak to Mr.Hammond.This gentleman is well versed on water problems.

I agree with Frank but Brian has a point with respect to Mr.Hammond

Aren't campaign contributions public record? Can any person or reporter find out exactly who has funded each current commissioners campaign?

Aren't campaign contributions public record? Can any person or reporter find out exactly who has funded each current commissioners campaign?

Hello-o-o-o. You'll find commissioners all over town throwing a fund-raiser, packing the room with "comp" tickets, then declaring $5,000 or $10,000 in donations of less than $100 -- the amount at which you have to report.

I calculated Larry Smith's disclosure and discovered that literally hundreds of people would have had to give him "less than $100" to equal the amount of undisclosed money he spent.

Sure, you can go copy the disclosure forms, but what's to say they are accurate and complete? -- s.

Write the ordinance to allow the professional judgment of the professional engineers employed by the developers be used to select culverts and pipes (based on geotechnic, hydrologic, hydraulic, etc., site conditions and traffic design basis)! Also put in the ordinance a requirement that if the culvert or pipe fails, THE DEVELOPERS AND THEIR ENGINEERS will be jointly and severably liable for the financial burden for the repair!

Don't leave the decision to marketing majors, insurance salesmen, English teachers, and those barely escaping high school with a diploma! Let the engineers do their jobs!

We're not talking about PVC vs concrete here. Nobody would use PVC as a culvert (and get approval from any engineering dept). High density polyethylene pipe has a very good service record. It is, in fact, used as a spillway in numerous high hazard dams. It is preferred due to issues with leakage at concrete pipe joints.

As someone above said, the decision should be left with a professional engineer. They could evaluate the loads, life expectancy, and hydraulic capacity to determine if concrete is warranted.

This is why the ordinance needs to be passed as written:

www.protectknoxcounty.org

Let's not pretend this is good policy. The original TetraTech report, acting only on science and engineering data, not only recomended that the County allow different types of pipe, but also made this recommendation:

Recommendations to the City of Knoxville: Allow more flexibility in the use of pipe materials. Tetra Tech would recommend that the city consider allowing flexibility in the use of reinforced concrete, high density polyethylene or corrugated metal in the construction of pipes.”

The city had it changed saying it wasn't part of what the consultants were supposed to review. So if you want to enact policy based on sound engineering and science, you vote for flexibility, not allowing only concrete.

Letting experienced PROFESSIONAL engineers design according to site conditions and expected usage and the use of experienced construction companies having good construction QA/QC programs is the answer to this question...allowing those with NO EXPERTISE in this area (that includes EVERYONE on County Commission) to make decisions about technical matters for which they are NOT TRAINED or LICENSED, vis-a-vis materials selection, design, and construction methods, etc., is not the answer. Write an ordinance with flexibility and allow the PROFESSIONALS to do their jobs! Include joint and several liability and performance bonds in the ordinance (see my earlier comment re: performance bonds). Get the uninformed and uneducated out of the decision-making process since they are, by definition, not competent to make these decisions!!! Doing this will allow the occurrence of appropriate decision-making concerning technical matters and will get these types of decisions out of the hands of the self-appointed "experts" on the Commission!

Do you really want someone nicknamed "Lumpy" making these types of decisions?

You are correct in the fact that marvin Hammond is the gentleman with the cane that was held at the podium, who did speak in favor of concrete. I would agree that someone should get Mr. Hammond's objection to concrete on the record.

Sandra, you said "Hello-o-o-o. You'll find commissioners all over town throwing a fund-raiser, packing the room with "comp" tickets, then declaring $5,000 or $10,000 in donations of less than $100 -- the amount at which you have to report."

You certainly should know after having been Mary Lou's campaign manager for 20 plus years. Mary Lou had similar fundraiser's.

Sandra you went on to say "I calculated Larry Smith's disclosure and discovered that literally hundreds of people would have had to give him "less than $100" to equal the amount of undisclosed money he spent."

Just as you did opposition research on R. Larry. I am sure that R. Larry's oppostion research persons looked at your candidate's disclosure as well.

and then you said "Sure, you can go copy the disclosure forms, but what's to say they are accurate and complete?"

Are all the forms for your candidate accurate and complete? I am sure they are.

Just some thoughts.

Anarchist, I think you ought to change your name to Technocrat.

I forgot to respond to your comment and question. I did not in your words "go postal" I simply reported fact. Had Frank called me to ask the question. The story would have been written differently. I can overlook one mistake. Because Frank does not have a reputation for getting it wrong, for reporting with bias and the publications that he does/has worked for do not print gossip and lies.

How can any reporter(s) have any credibility when the paper are they are employed with prides itself on printing gossip and lies every week. It brings into question every story and every word that they write and report on.

The comments are enforcement are correct. Most homebuilders, certainly those active in the Association, want to do things right. What the new ordinance should and will do is require a plan that addresses stormwater issues to the County's approval, then make sure the development is built as planned. There should be flexibility on pipe (as the consultants concluded) but not on flow, capacity or water quality...none of which are affected by the type of pipe.

The County funded two new stormwater inspectors and vehicles for them in the field, in the new budget. It will take more than two, but that's the start this year.

The price of the lobsters probably won't cover that.

will the new regs if approved in August be in effect for the development out near Washington Pike?

these regs when approved only effect developments after the regs are approved or are there some developments that would have to be modified to be in compliance thus the regs would be retro actively imposed?

...charging every county resident per square foot of imperious surface

Bean, I know you meant "impervious," but I love the image your word evoked. If the "imperious surface" taxpayers were charged for included the City/County building, Bill Gates couldn't foot the bill.

Larry Van Guilder

**Edited on account of smart-alec Van Guilder

The spelling police always get their man! (or woman)

Larry Van Guilder