Mon
Jun 8 2009
07:16 pm
By: jbr
Does the downtown area really qualify for TIFs anymore? I don't think you can call it blighted. At least not in the area of these two TIF requests. A result of success. I don't know where the most expensive per square foot residential property is in the area but looking at downtown prices, it must be a candidate.
NS article
(link...)
|
|
Discussing:
- Confusion at the Alcoa South Plant (1 reply)
- Tennessee: great for business, not so great place to live (1 reply)
- Marsha & China (4 replies)
- AI bubble burst? (2 replies)
- Tennessee paying $637 million over 5 years for voucher software program (2 replies)
- UT paying $2 million to fired professor? (2 replies)
- A bear in Alcoa (1 reply)
- Here are some good Presidents (1 reply)
- Alcoa Hwy construction to extend to 2030 (3 replies)
- Happy 250th, pfft (2 replies)
- Smith & Wesson noise problem (3 replies)
- Are Chat bots a waste of time? (1 reply)
TN Progressive
- Alcoa property taxes will probably not go up (BlountViews)
- Smith & Wesson not a good fit for Blount County (BlountViews)
- Pellissippi Parkway extension delayed again (BlountViews)
- Blount County early voting record turnout (BlountViews)
- WATCH THIS SPACE. (Left Wing Cracker)
- America As It Is Right Now (RoaneViews)
- A friend sent this: From Captain McElwee's Tall Tales of Roane County (RoaneViews)
- The Meidas Touch (RoaneViews)
- Massive Security Breach Analysis (RoaneViews)
- (Whitescreek Journal)
- My choices in the August election (Left Wing Cracker)
- July 4, 2024 - aka The Twilight Zone (Joe Powell)
TN Politics
- DHS boss Mullin warns of possible prosecution for election officials over voter roll access (TN Lookout)
- Taco Bell removing lettuce nationwide linked to cyclosporiasis in 5 states (TN Lookout)
- Tennessee District 5 candidates vie for constituents spread across the state’s extremes (TN Lookout)
- Stockard on the Stump: It’s not debatable, Blackburn shifting for money (TN Lookout)
- Rose primarily self-funding as Blackburn leads governors candidates in donations made by Tennesseans (TN Lookout)
- House Dem Leader Jeffries hammers Trump, asks for teachers union help in midterms (TN Lookout)
Knox TN Today
- Baseball beckons as summer slides away (Knox TN Today)
- Daily Connections: Your East Tennessee Guide | July 17-19 (Knox TN Today)
- Coming Monday: Faith Along the Way (Knox TN Today)
- Jennifer Aniston Inspired Salad (Knox TN Today)
- Karns builds a stage + New launch on Beaver Creek + Farmer Finn + Jason Maxedon ++ (Knox TN Today)
- Tiny faces, bright futures: Red Panda cubs reach another milestone (Knox TN Today)
- Hiking with Harrington: Summer blooms along Little River Trail (Knox TN Today)
- Food City offers exclusive deal for Paula Deen’s Lumberjack Feud (Knox TN Today)
- Close to Home, Far from Ordinary: Knox the Fox shares recent trip with friends (Knox TN Today)
- Climate technology innovations continue (Knox TN Today)
- Weekend Scene: Newsies Jr. to Grooves in the Garden (Knox TN Today)
- Rosebay Rhododendron adorns the new Linville Falls Connector Trail (Knox TN Today)
Local TV News
- Knoxville Weather: Daily storm chances continue (WATE)
- Knoxville Weather: Daily thunderstorm chances through weekend (WATE)
- Blount County moves to buy Alcoa South Plant amid contamination concerns (WATE)
- Fatal crash on Maynardville Pike under investigation by THP (WATE)
- Knoxville teen undergoes gene therapy for sickle cell disease, giving family new hope (WATE)
- Blount County school board member resigns, setting up special election (WATE)
News Sentinel
State News
- Patrick Shawn (Nature Boy) Tocco Obituary | 1977 - 2026 - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Richard Williams (Rick) Obituary | 1949 - 2026 - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Man arrested, charged with murder after Chattanooga police find dead body - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Two dead in apparent murder-suicide in Cleveland, Tenn. - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
Wire Reports
- U.S. and Iran trade strikes after two U.S. service members killed in Jordan - NBC News (US News)
- Moonshot Plans IPO in Six Months After China AI Breakthrough - Bloomberg.com (Business)
- Explosive diarrhea outbreak: Lettuce tests positive for cyclospora, FDA says - NewsNation (Business)
- Trump is invoking foreign election interference to justify his own | Jamil Smith - The Guardian (US News)
- Tate brothers arrested in US as further UK charges take total to 59 - BBC (US News)
- How to keep the air inside your home clean during wildfires - AP News (Business)
- American Airlines CEO lays out his vision to close a more than $3 billion profit gap - CNBC (Business)
- Chicago air quality update: AQI likely to stay 'unhealthy' for all as wildfire smoke returns, impacting events - ABC7 Chicago (US News)
- 8 AM NHC Update: Here's What Changed! - WINK News (US News)
- Major grocery chain beats Walmart, Aldi in price war as shoppers hunt for checkout relief - Fox Business (Business)
- Storm cleanup expected after flash flooding batters NYC, Tri-State area | Live updates - ABC7 New York (US News)
- Texas residents say timely alerts and last year’s catastrophic floods helped them prepare for this year’s deluge - NBC News (US News)
- Chinese company demands compensation from the UK over British Steel nationalization - AP News (Business)
- What people get wrong about Steve Jobs, according to the Apple exec Jobs used to call nightly - Business Insider (Business)
- What to Know About Fires Caused by Lightning in the Pacific Northwest - The New York Times (US News)
Local Media
Lost Medicaid Funding
To date, the failure to expand Medicaid/TennCare has cost the State of Tennessee ? in lost federal funding. (Source)
Search and Archives
TN Progressive
Nearby:
- Blount Dems
- Herston TN Family Law
- Inside of Knoxville
- Instapundit
- Jack Lail
- Jim Stovall
- Knox Dems
- MoxCarm Blue Streak
- Outdoor Knoxville
- Pittman Properties
- Reality Me
- Stop Alcoa Parkway
Beyond:
- Nashville Scene
- Nashville Post
- Smart City Memphis
- TN Dems
- TN Journal
- TN Lookout
- Bob Stepno
- Facing South

Downtown TIF projects
This is a reasonable question, and one that arose at the City Council meeting where the TIFs were approved last week..TIFs are project specific, and some of the buildings that remain undeveloped are the most challenging. These two projects - Daylight and Arnstein buildings are in a redevelopment area and both have elements of real blight and other structural conditions that make their renovation not workable without a TIF.
All TIF requests in the City are vetted through the Policy and Communications office and KCDC before being presented to City Council and County Commission. In order for our office to recommend a TIF the project has to pass a "but for" test as well as the "public interest" test. Not all projects that make it to our office make it past these hurdles. We examine the construction costs and projected purchases and / or rental expectations, both of which, by the way, are lower now. We also get third party verification from bankers not involved in the project. The question we ask is "Is this project feasible, or one that a bank would loan money to, without the TIF?
Sure there is some risk that the project would have gone through anyway. I think that risk is low for the projects we have worked with so far. There is also risk on the other side... the buildings stay vacant, producing virtually no taxes, serving as a drain on city resources, deteriorating, and threatening neighboring structures. Also keep in mind that the TIFs do produce immediate increased tax revenues during the TIF period because the amount of the total property tax that services debt is not subject to the TIF. They also pay CBID fees immediately.
Moreover, not that this is part of our policy, but any project that puts people to work and money in the local economy right now is a real plus.
Let us now praise moderate blight
Thanks Bill. I didn't realize that about the increased tax revenue during the TIF period. Either way it seems like a no-brainer: the city can't lose on these deals and anything that gets them occupied again helps in so many ways. I'm assuming the TIF is on increases in property value over the current appraisal (which is still taxed)?
The only disappointing thing is that the buildings were occupied not so very long ago, though neither was in very good shape. I'm not sure we weren't better off when they were decrepit and open. The city needs a range of buildings including run-down but habitable to maintain a diversity of uses. There's only so much demand for boutique shops and we have a surplus of class-A office space, but we used to have a shoe repair shop before Home Federal tore down the building for parking and the Daylight used to be home to artist studios and a children's theater workshop. None of these kinds of tenants can pay what David will need for his freshly renovated spaces and they won't be downtown (or will have to be subsidized) if we keep pricing them out of the market.
I wonder if the city could do something to encourage the opening up of some of the empty space in unrenovated buildings. Gay St has a lot of empty upper floors that are essentially blighted property. AFAIK, there's nothing happening upstairs at Arby's for example. What would it take to make that space (and others like it) minimally habitable for some affordable use? How about a proactive program of TIF carrots and blight enforcement sticks to improve some of the abandoned property over our heads?
TIF as a tool for anything other than improved property
Hayduke, I do recall that we this has come up a couple of times. There is no shortage at all of run down space in the city, including the old city and downtown north, and, as your example on Gay points out, in downtown. I don't think we need to encourage it, and certainly we don't want to tell a building owner to keep his or her space in a run down condition. The project in the Daylight, much like the soon to open JFG project in the Old City will be moderately priced rental that will keep downtown diverse. Folks may be priced out of a particular building, but there is a wide diversity of available property for use by artists and others who need a work space or a live-work space. Indeed that is very much what we envision in the downtown north redevelopment plan and what the move to form based zoning is all about - live ' work space rather than segregated living and employment areas.
Your discussion of the space above Arby's is interesting, and, yes, it would be great if building owners would choose to make space available to folks, although sometimes the build-outs would trigger code requirements that just would not make it feasible without major expense. That gets to the core of the issue in re:city policy. We have (by state law) a very limited set of tools. TIF stand for "Tax Increment Financing" which means that there must be a significant improvement to the buildings that would show up in a significant reappraisal and subsequent increase from the taxes paid at present. The TIF and PILOT programs only produce revenue to be used as incentives if significant investment is made in the buildings such that they produce more tax revenue... and that is the financial basis for the incentive. The city is constitutionally forbidden to set differential rates for property so nothing with taxes can be done to incentivise a specific use for property that is not improved. In short, there is not a possibility of Tax Increment Financing without significant investment to improve the property and to create the "increment' that fuel the incentive.
what happens if an
what happens if an individual or company owning a property that has been recipient of TIF goes bankrupt? who pays the taxes?
Whoever owns the building pays the taxes.
Whoever owns the building pays the taxes, as is always the case. If someone goes bankrupt, whoever gets the building on the other side of the bankruptcy pays the taxes. Whatever happens, if the increased taxes are not forthcoming for any reason, the bank who made the TIF loan to the developer is who is left with a loan without a source of repayment. That is why they usually have the developer take personal responsibility for payment of that loan in the worst case scenario. In no case is the taxpayer at any risk at all. That is because the TIF always represents expected new taxes that will help retire a loan that a bank makes to a developer. If the taxes are not paid the entity at risk is the entity who made the loan, and by extension, who signs for the loan.
the entity at risk is the
entities like Bank of America or GMAC or Morgan Stanley? i think the idea that a bank-at-risk is not the public-at-risk has been disproven ...
there are arguments on both sides of this issue, of course. here's a recent one from cleveland, for example, that argues that taxes collected go to repaying debt as city services to the new development are provided gratis for the duration of the TIF.
Free and Fair Market
If it takes x amount to develop property why shouldn't the market then determine the value of the property? Meaning if it isn't feasible without government assistance then why not drop the price or does it mean that it isn't feasible for this particular developer because they don't have the means to develop it.
One more time. . .
If there's no TIF, the city collects tax on the value of an empty, run-down building for the next 10 years and at the end the building (and tax revenue) is the same or even lower. With a TIF, the city collects a slightly higher tax for the TIF period and then starts collecting much higher tax on the renovated value and the city has improved its building stock. So cutting taxes actually increases revenue in this case. It's sort of like trickle down economics except that it works.