Thu
Aug 12 2010
10:10 am
By way of Josh Flory, CB Richard Ellis and Lawler-Wood have repackaged Baptist Hospital as "the best mixed-use development opportunity of its kind in Tennessee," calling it a "once-in-a-generation opportunity to acquire a truly irreplaceable asset" and a "rare site" with "limitless potential."
Behold The Bridges at Riverside.
Here's the prospectus, no listing price mentioned.
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Wow! What a concept. For some
Wow! What a concept. For some reason it made me think of the Annie Lennox song, Sweet Dreams (are made of these).
Sweet dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree?
I mean, really. It appears Blount Ave disappears on the east side of Chapman Hwy. It also appears the "concept" would take more than just the Baptist Hospital site. Also, what is it with the side west of Chapman Hwy? The "concept" make it look like there is not the 20-30+ ft drop down the hill from Chapman Hwy.
Sweet dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree?
And where's the kudzu?
From the same song:
Some just want to abuse you
Some just want to be abused
Everybody's looking for something
A herd of goats is part of
A herd of goats is part of the vision.
Just in case…
Just to head off any naysayers, I think it is fair to point out that the rendering is a fanciful representation by real estate marketers trying to communicate the VAST usage opportunities that the property represents. Obviously, substantial creative license has been taken with some of the topography and structure types. But despite that, the rendering does communicate that this is a once-in-a-century opportunity for a grand urban architectural space that goes way beyond a mere commercial development. Given its location and proximity to downtown, its position at a crossroads, and the effect that it would have on the South Waterfront, it is clear that the development of this property needs to driven by look-ahead CIVIC needs, as well as commercial.
If it's not going to be a
If it's not going to be a hospital serving South Knoxville, the rendering looks great to me. As long as it has a nice waterfront bar/restaurant.
I can't imagine, though, where anyone is going to be able to raise the money for that kind of redevelopment in this economy anytime in the foreseeable future.
P.S. Where's the Smoky Mountain Market in that rendering? That ain't right!
I can't imagine, though,
the public sector, obviously. TIFs, IDB bonds, city/county grants, etc. lawler-woods will figure it out ...
Is that a roundabout at the
Is that a roundabout at the intersection of Blount and Gay Street?
Yes, a roundabout!
Yes, a roundabout! But that idea is not new; a roundabout there was part of the overall South Waterfront concept design plan that involved the new river road. There's another one in the works further out Sevier Avenue. Check out the city's South Waterfront website.
Yes, that's been in the south
Yes, that's been in the south waterfront plan from the get go, I believe.
Marketing
I'm probably going to poke fun at it over the years, but really I think it's a great name.
I like the fact that the promoters seem to be encouraging adaptive reuse of some of the buildings.
BTW, Smoky Mtn market is still there - you can see it and the muffler shop just above the turn lane from Chapman to blount. The buildings you see in the foreground sit on the Baptist parking lots.
---- posted from The Bungalow at Riverpark
I like the spirit and the overall goal...but
I like the spirit and the overall goal.
I don't like the demolition of the vast majority of the perfectly good buildings on the site.
I see only one existing building integrated into the plan.
Granted, Baptist is nothing much to look at, but in this age of limited resources shouldn't architects be using their creative genius to turn ugly buildings into pretty ones? Instead it seems these guys are rather un-creatively wasting a lot of perfectly good buildings at astronomical cost to "someone else". If this whole thing is funded by taxpayers that someone else is us. If thats the most likely scenario, then I think they'd better go back to the drawing board and come up with something that preserves, or at least builds on, at least 80% of the site as is. Otherwise this admirable vision will remain a pipe dream.
Reuse
I can't tell if they may be cutting through the main building and reusing some of it? Seems to be the same scale. The existing drive north of the building makes for a great promenade.
Yes smalc, I think I see some goats on the bank.
Call it "London Bridges" in honor of Debbie London
who proudly pronounced that a brand new $500 million state of the art hospital facility would rise at that location within 5 years of the date they laid off virtually all of the non-essential staff and nurses at the Baptist facility.
The whole thing is a cluster muck and the site will have to be leveled (assuming TDEC can ok such a thing that close to the water)taken through a bankruptcy proceeding and then reconstituted for UT Student housing
There are horizontal lines
There are horizontal lines above that red walkway which I assume to be terraces or steps, but have trees, shrubs, and walkways hovering above (or below, can't tell).
Got to ask, 'cause I don't know
I recall being told some years ago that the family who willed the land to Baptist many years ago stipulated that it had to be used for a hospital that would serve South Knox. Was that just folklore?
Never heard that one.
Never heard that one. Doesn't mean it isn't true, but surely it would have come up in all the south waterfront discussions.
Yeah, and what about this one?
I may be gettin' way senile, but I seem to remember that even before the two hospitals merged, one huge reason for closing Baptist was because it was NO LONGER safe because of the foundation...especially the part that is in or close to the river?
Now, I guess that was all just part of the promotion of the merger?
Sort of like how the developers continue to push the Midway park land deal?
I don't recall hearing about
I don't recall hearing about problems with the foundation, but I might have missed that part of the story. The part near the river is just a patio, so there's not much weight on the foundation at the edge of the bluff.
Are there enough rich people
Are there enough rich people that want to live there to make this work?
Roundabouts
.......are quite the rage in the suburban Indianapolis community of Carmel. The last I heard, they have something like 37 already built and many more in planning. The mayor, Jim Brainerd, seems to believe they are the solution to every problem known to humanity. My personal opinion is that they handle light-to-moderate traffic reasonably well, but I have serious doubts about rush-hours.
(link...)
a friend of mine had
a friend of mine had suggested Mercy Arms as a name. it's good, though, that the building will be recycled rather than torn down. just hope it doesn't get dryvit-encrusted like the UT housing on cumberland.
Is there as much land between
Is there as much land between the buildings and the edge of the water as the image indicates?
No
No, and the precipitous kudzu-covered bluff has somehow become much shorter. But, again, this is a marketers speculation intended to entice interest--it is not a plan in reality.
Not shorter in the drawing.
Not shorter in the drawing. The walkway and frontage have been built out into the river.
Green space
I think there is as much green space, but it is vertical more than horizontal. The steps as they are shown aren't going to work. It's a good site for a funicular like you see at the steps to Montmartre. That would adress ADA issues.
A couple of photos for
A couple of photos for perspective on the bluff. The first one was taken a couple of weeks ago. The second one was taken in April 2009. Click images for larger views.
It looks like fourteen people
It looks like fourteen people on the boat dock with two boats in the afternoon to me. Is this realistic?
Two sailboats, three fishing and three pontoon boats circling a pavilion that offers no entertainment? There is a lot of foot traffic and very few cars.
Are we really talking Knoxville here?
I mean, where are the homeless? Did they lock the doors at Flennikan?
Unclear on the concept
I had to read your comment several times before I realized that you were talking about the concept drawing of the Baptist property redevelopment, not Randy's photos, to which you replied. You might want to put your comments in a more logical place in the future so that it's easier to figure out what you're talking about.
Regarding the content of your comment, I see lots of cars in the drawing. Also lots of people using the greenway. Why would this be unusual? Go to Market Square or Third Creek Greenway or another place where people like to walk on a nice weekend day and you'll see lots of pedestrians. If the Baptist property redevelops as a walkable place, it would not be unusual to see people walking there.
Absolutely my bad on the
Absolutely my bad on the unclarity of my post. Please accept my humble apology. It's the new computer syndrome, I had the prospectus up next to the picture trying to figure out the proposal. Sorry. As I've mentioned before I'm a computer novice, though putting two windows next to each other was a real breakthrough. I'm beginning to think this internet stuff is going to catch on and maybe even be the way of the future.
As to your second paragraph, where is the Baptist property drawing its walkers from? I know I'm taking things too personally by noting that every location I've thrown onto the table as a possible part of the homeless solution suddenly has an alternate use, but at what point do we not begin to look at the city as a whole instead of groups of people separated by economic and social boundaries? Why is it not acceptable to look to a new development as a part of the solution? That was my point.
Again, sorry about my shortcomings and I appreciate you pointing them out to me. I will work on improving.
Walkers
Bob, I imagine the developers will keep the existing parking garage, also there could be garages incorporated into the new structures W of the bridge. People might walk over from downtown and from the surrounding neighborhoods. Then or course there are the people who live and work in the proposed/repurposed structures.
I think your tin foil hat is buzzing a little to loud on this one. The process to close Baptist and market it for reuse was started years ago, before the TYP was in the spotlight.
I think your tin foil hat is
I think your tin foil hat is buzzing a little to loud on this one. The process to close Baptist and market it for reuse was started years ago, before the TYP was in the spotlight.
You are right, but it still pisses me off to have spent the last five months fighting for sidewalks and bike trails, in vain I might add, and then pop open these plans and see a whole redesigned roadway paid for by those of us that could still use the bike trails and sidewalks. Geez.