Rachel's picture

I'm beginning to regret

I'm beginning to regret voting for Bernie in the primary. Harry Reid met with him today and told reporters that he thought Sanders would be issuing a statement condemning the behavior.

His statement said he didn't condone violence, but he understood why people were frustrated.

Isn't that EXACTY what Trump says about his supporters?

Bbeanster's picture

What's Bernie's endgame? Even

What's Bernie's endgame? Even he doesn't seem to know. I wearied of him some time ago. Another similarity with Trump: they're both stalling the release of their income tax returns. I'm beginning to think there's more to Bernie's foot-dragging than his wife being "too busy."

R. Neal's picture

What's Bernie's endgame? To

What's Bernie's endgame?

To win 100% of all the delegates in all the remaining state primaries, then flip 500 or 600 Clinton superdelegates, then on to the White House!

Factchecker's picture

What's Bernie's endgame?

Same as his strategy to implement his goals. "The revolution," wishing, etc. Repeat.

Bad Candidate's picture

on the other hand...

(link...)

"Bernie Sanders revealed Tuesday that shots were fired into his Nevada campaign office and that an "apartment housing complex my campaign staff lived in was broken into and ransacked."

R. Neal's picture

News reports said one

News reports said one suspected bullet hole was found in one window at a Sanders campaign office. Police were investigating, but no bullet was found and nothing conclusive was reported after that. So "shots were fired" sounds like a bit of an exaggeration.

The threats, hateful voice mails, etc. directed at the Nevada Democratic chair, her work place, etc. are well documented. And it sounds like Bernie Sanders is justifying all that because someone migt have shot a hole in a campaign office window months ago.

Bbeanster's picture

Bernie's campaign staff live

Bernie's campaign staffers all live in the same housing complex?

Knoxgal's picture

Time for Sanders to drop out

It's past time for Sanders to drop out of this race. His success, which is beyond what he ever dreamed, has gone to his head and he's running on pure ego now. Both he and his supporters are just disruptive forces at this point. Clinton has 3 million more votes nationwide and she won the Nevada caucuses in February, but still the election is "rigged" (except when it benefits Sanders of course). He has become a left-wing demagogue. Democratic voter turnout is down from 2008. There is no revolution.

bizgrrl's picture

He [Sanders] identified the



He [Sanders] identified the Democratic party as an essentially corrupt, moribund institution
which is now on notice that it must let 'the people' in. What about the coalitions Barack Obama built in 2008 and 2012, the biggest and most diverse presidential coalitions ever constructed?

Sanders narrative today has essentially been that he is political legitimacy. The Democratic party needs to realize that. This, as I said earlier, is the problem with lying to your supporters. Sanders is telling his supporters that he can still win, which he can't. He's suggesting that the win is being stolen by a corrupt establishment, an impression which will be validated when his phony prediction turns out not to be true. Lying like this sets you up for stuff like happened over the weekend in Nevada.

How is it a man who was a registered Independent for decades can all the sudden determine how the Democratic Party should be run? How is it he can declare the Democratic Party corrupt because of closed primaries? If he wants to use the power of the Democratic Party, then he should have been supporting the party for decades, more than just voting with them?

I'm proud to be a member of the Democratic Party, for decades.

Knoxoasis's picture

Bernie is just saying exactly

Bernie is just saying exactly the same thing Trump and his supporters are saying about the Republican Party.

The difference is the Democratic establishment has done a better job of creating rules that block a non establishment favored candidate than the Republicans did.

Dahlia's picture

Bernie has every right to run as long as he can.

What's disturbing to me is that so many Hillary supporters seem to think he doesn't have that right or "shouldn't" just because they say so. Why are you squashing this? We still live in a Democracy. It will play out and it should play out and instead of automatically throwing barbs at the Bernie supporters actions and taking the media's soundbites, it might help to look closer at the WHY of the outcry which came because the rules were changed midstream to benefit Hillary.

The voting will be over soon, so chill out. And if you are so confident that Hillary is the best and strongest candidate then why are you so worried about Bernie supporters? Shouldn't you be able to convince them she's the best? I would think so, but being defensive and belittling does NOT help your case.

bizgrrl's picture

I'm not sure Clinton

I'm not sure Clinton supporters are concerned about winning the Democratic nomination. I am more concerned with the negative press Sanders is giving the Democratic Party.

A_Falk's picture

the party deserves

the party deserves more than the negative press it does get -- not just about the power structure of the party and primary process, but about the goals and policies of the party itself.

(disclaimer: not a bernie bro, not crying over the spilt milk of the primary process)

on a related note, is there a local forum similar to knoxviews where people who are left of center-right gather to chat? im sure yall are good people & wish there were more of you and less of the reactionary right, but i am still in search of a local left-politics forum.

bizgrrl's picture

Hey, Falk. We be as liberal

Hey, Falk. We be as liberal as you get. Maybe you should start a local left politics forum that suits your demand.

A_Falk's picture

left and liberal

left and liberal are not synonyms

bizgrrl's picture

Hey, Falk. We be as left as

Hey, Falk. We be as left as you get. Maybe you should start a local left politics forum that suits your demand.

Dahlia's picture

Sanders isn't giving the Democratic party the negative press,

the media is. The media is not left-leaning, despite us being told over and over they are. They're bought and paid for by big business. They don't want Bernie and they've shown that from the very beginning.

Rachel's picture

This. ^^^And I don't care if

What bizgrrl said.

And I don't care if Bernie keeps running. I care about how much damage he does to Hillary in the process. (And BTW, I also care about her not doing damage to him.)

Do you guys understand that Donald Trump may end up in the White House?

fischbobber's picture

Tump in the White House

The only way Trump ends up in the White House is if he ends up being a stronger candidate than Hillary. She controls that. Her policy and platform are weak. She needs to fix that.

Rachel's picture

Yeah, yeah. And Ralph Nader

Yeah, yeah. And Ralph Nader had no part in W ending up in the White House.

fischbobber's picture

Al Gore was the great hope of the Democratic Party

But, he also ran the worst campaign in the history of the party. That was not Nader's fault. That was Al Gore's fault.

Hillary's refusal to compromise on the platform and policy is not Bernie Sander's fault. It's her fault.

It's going to be hard to sell personal responsibility in the fall if our candidate won't accept any.

Rachel's picture

Gore gets plenty of blame.

Gore gets plenty of blame. But Nader supporters don't get a pass either.

I have no idea what you mean about Hillary's "refusal to compromise." I have seen her move to left in response to Bernie's efforts and that's why I'm very glad he ran.

It seems to be Bernie (and especially some of his supporters) who are stuck in true believer mode. True believers make me nervous.

Have you read the entire statement Bernie put out yesterday? It was 1/3 stump speech, 1/3 "I understand why my supporters are frustrated" and 1/3 "I don't condone violence BUT Hillary started it."

What he needed to say was that we have our policy differences but I don't condone bad behavior. Period. No "but..."

Dahlia's picture

Nadar ran as an Independent in the election.

Bernie is running as a Democratic nominee in the primaries. Two totally different things. It's ridiculous to put them in the same boat. And blaming Bernie for Hillary's weaknesses is especially ridiculous.

fischbobber's picture

Assumption of guilt

There is a presumptive assumption of guilt among Clinton supporters. They barred Sanders delegates delegates from the floor, changed the rules on a voice vote they clearly lost and sent Barbara Boxer up front to instigate a riot. Sanders statement was appropriate.

I don't condone violence, but teaching where to draw the line when being bullied is one of the hardest job of being in a position of authority.

Sanders was every bit as responsible for what happened on the floor of the convention as Clinton was responsible for the bullet that entered Sanders convention headquarters.

As for Clinton not moving on policy, we've covered this before, but this link to the New York Times shows that it might be in her best interest to consider it. At some point, the Republican establishment is going to come to the realization that they've got someone not viewed as a stiff, who is totally unaccountable for any promises he makes, who could well win the election. (link...)

We're nominating our weakest candidate.

Dahlia's picture

I agree with you.

And I hope to God she wins and if she does, we all better hope we win at least the senate because if we don't, it's going to be horrible.

R. Neal's picture

And if you are so confident

And if you are so confident that Hillary is the best and strongest candidate then why are you so worried about Bernie supporters? Shouldn't you be able to convince them she's the best? I would think so, but being defensive and belittling does NOT help your case.

Switch Clinton and Sanders and that's the Sanders playbook in a nutshell.

It's disappointing, because Sanders started out with a strong progressive message that generated a lot of enthusiasm and successes. Now he's an angry, bitter old man appealing to the worst in his supporters for votes in an effort to destroy the party he says he wants to lead. Sort of like Trump, except for the bitter, sore loser part.

Dahlia's picture

No, in the media and on the Clinton side Bernie started out as a

joke! You know that and everyone knows that. The media rarely if ever covered Bernie for months and now only covers him if it's negative. C'mon, he's been fighting a HUGE uphill battle from day one.

Can you honestly tell me that it wasn't assumed Hillary was entitled to the nomination? And then when Bernie finally started to get some attention for the 1,000's of supporters he had been getting at rallies, it pissed off Hillary and the Hillary supporters big time and the attacks of him being a "nutjob" or 'not deserving' ramped up. The media laughed at him, belittled him and now they make him out to be a "bitter, sore loser." And the way they've treated his supporters is disgusting. They have REFUSED to take him seriously from day one, because let's face it, Hillary is the "chosen" one. And unfortunately, the chosen one is not always the best one, and so many Hillary supporters are so defensive, I'm beginning to believe they're not buying she's the best, either, but they're too entrenched defending her to change.

Dahlia's picture

And btw, Bernie is only 5 years older than Hillary.

So, if you're going to call him an "angry, bitter, old man", then I guess Hillary could be called a manipulative, entitled, old woman.

R. Neal's picture

Hey, I never said she was

Hey, I never said she was particularly likeable!

R. Neal's picture

Fair enough. You are entitled

Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion. I would only suggest you go listen to some of the voice mails left for the Nevada party chair. That was going too far and pretty much the final straw for me.

Dahlia's picture

Yes, I agree. Threatening of any nature is dead wrong.

There are idiots and jerks on ALL sides and that shouldn't be tolerated, but I wouldn't toss out a candidate because of a few bad apples who may not even be his true supporters. Bernie doesn't encourage it, nor does Hillary. Trump, on the other hand, does.

Somebody's picture

Sanders may not encourage it,

Sanders may not encourage it, but in this case, he inexplicably has declined to actually be intolerant of it. All he had to say was something like: "I understand and share frustrations with some parts of this nomination process. Nonetheless, no supporter of mine should ever threaten anyone, nor should they conduct themselves in any way that is remotely violent. I continue to be thrilled by the passion of my supporters, but disassociate myself completely from anyone who cannot conduct themselves in a respectful, civil manner."

That's all it would take. A statement like that would show him acting like a leader, taking responsibility and drawing the line. Instead, he chose the "who, me?" defense, and denied responsibility. It may not be as bad as Trump, but it sure isn't good.

Rachel's picture

Sanders may not encourage it,

Sanders may not encourage it, but in this case, he inexplicably has declined to actually be intolerant of it.

Yup, and that is why I now regret voting for him in the primary. And I'm sad about that.

bizgrrl's picture

Puhlease! Early on we could

Puhlease! Early on we could not believe all the press Sanders was getting. Between Sanders and Trump, the news cycle was complete. Full speeches from each on MSNBC. Sorry all that press didn't get you what you wanted. Now it's time for Clinton and Trump.

Dahlia's picture

Are you kidding me? Bernie was never even mentioned

until he started winning. It was ALL about Hillary. The questioning of Republican candidates was always 'how are you going to beat Hillary'? Bernie was never mentioned until they couldn't ignore his impact anymore. I'm sorry, but I can't believe you're saying that Bernie got tons of press.

I think we can all agree, however, that Trump owned the media in this circus.

Andy Axel's picture

Oh, horseSHIT.

outcry which came because the rules were changed midstream to benefit Hillary.

The rules have been the same all along, and I certainly didn't hear an outcry about inherent unfairness when the superdelegates were leveraged to full advantage by Team Obama in 2008.

And that doesn't even get into the extortion tactics used by same on bound delegates during the DNCC itself.

Give me a frickin' break.

Dahlia's picture

Noooo, they changed the rules and then didn't abide by the rules

they had in place. See for yourself.

(link...)

(link...)

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Rules change

The rules have been the same all along...

RealClearPolitics has video up of state chair Roberta Lange, a Clinton supporter and a member of the DNC, imposing "temporary convention rules" by a voice vote. It surely sounds like the nays prevailed, but...

RCP cites "reason for concern" in the manner the convention was conducted.

jcgrim's picture

Media meme comes from HRC campaign

Robert McChesney: Media covering Clinton through the eyes of the Clinton Campaign.

(link...)

Bbeanster's picture

And of course Bernie didn't

And of course Bernie didn't get much attention when he was polling in low double digits, and of course it was assumed that Clinton was the front runner. The polls bore that assumption out. That's the way it works. Not sure what the complaint is here.

Bernie's chief strategist, Thad Devine, is considered one of the architects of the DNC electoral process, and is as "establishment" as they get.

"Political work
Democratic Party rules and delegate selection

Devine is considered one of the leading experts on the Democratic Party's presidential nominating process[6] and general election strategy.[7] In 1980, he worked on President Jimmy Carter's reelection campaign as a delegate tracker.[8] He went on to serve as Deputy Director of Delegate Selection in the nomination campaign of former Vice President Walter Mondale and Executive Assistant to the Campaign Manager in the 1984 general election.[9] [10]"

And:

"From 1987-88, he served as Director of Delegate Selection and Field Operations in the nomination campaign of Governor Michael Dukakis. In 1992, Devine served as a member of the Democratic Party Rules Committee and was a consultant to CBS News throughout the Democratic National Convention in New York. As lead negotiator for the Dukakis campaign at the 1988 Rules Committee, Devine was involved in the Democratic party's 1988 reform that eliminated winner take all methods of delegate selection and established proportional representation as the exclusive system of delegate allocation in the Democratic Party.[11][12]"

Finally, you are mis-remembering history if you think the media have ever been particularly kind to Hillary Clinton.

Dahlia's picture

I never said the media was kind to Hillary Clinton, I said

the media is not left-leaning because they are beholden to corporations who pay their bills. Still, they would rather have Hillary over Bernie. I admit, part of the reason I didn't want Hillary is because the media loves to attack her. Granted, it's not always warranted, but damn it, a lot of times it is because she's so squirrelly. I don't want someone who is always in the news or doing things that raise questions. I want someone who gets things done.

Somebody's picture

I want someone who gets

I want someone who gets things done.

Sanders doesn't have any particular record for getting things done, does he? Much like Trump, he's very good at strongly asserting positions that appeal to a certain audience. For some reason, a lot of people confuse strongly asserted positions with getting things done.

It's actually the people who expend political capital (and risk seeming squirrelly) by interacting with others to find compromise and common ground who get things done. There's nothing wrong with delineating strong positions, but without the demonstrated capacity to engage in the process to find a workable compromise, it doesn't have a lot to do with 'getting things done.'

In these waning days of the nomination process, Sanders is not showering himself with honor. By not beginning to pivot himself and his supporters toward pulling together with the party and ensuring Donald Trump's defeat, he is also not showing much aptitude for 'getting things done.'

Dahlia's picture

Imo, Bernie has done quite a bit.

Here is his record on bills that he's sponsored (3) and co-sponsored (204) that have passed. I think they speak volumes for the type of man he is and leader he would be.

(link...)

fischbobber's picture

In addition....

Bernie is known for his amendments. He has been able to introduce policy benefiting a huge numbers of Americans by his knowledge and application of how our legislative system works.He's widely considered one of the hardest working members of the Senate and his integrity has never been in question. Compare and contrast that with everyone left in the race.

Somebody's picture

Getting things done, legislatively

Hey, thanks for the link!

Of course, co-sponsoring a bill does not mean he was actively involved in creating or even promoting a bill. That could be the case, but it's by no means necessarily so. Most times a Senator co-sponsors a piece of legislation, it just means he signed off on it on the front end, and then (probably) voted for it later.

Sponsoring a bill, well that's different. That means he was involved in creating and promoting its passage. So, from 1991 to present, Sen. Sanders sponsored three bills that became law, and two of those were naming post offices in Vermont. The other one was to increase disability compensation for veterans in 2013, so good on him for that.

To be fair, in his Senate career, Sanders sponsored 358 bills that were introduced in the Senate, and 190 of those made it to committee for consideration, but only a dozen then made it to the floor of the Senate, and only three made it all the way to the President's desk.

To be even more fair, as a Senator, Hillary Clinton only got three of the 409 bills that she sponsored across the finish line, one to name a road, one to name a post office, and one to create a national historic site. Still, she did that in a single Senate term. Then she did the whole served as Secretary of State thing, certainly with some successes and failures there.

The point is, "getting things done" in Washington is really hard, and it's a lot different than making bold statements at a podium. Certainly this source of information doesn't prove that either Senator doesn't "get things done," but it doesn't really prove that they do, either.

Donald Trump, however, he gets things done. Make a gaudy enough building, and he'll sell you a license to put his name on it!

Bbeanster's picture

Hillary wouldn't have been my

Hillary wouldn't have been my first choice, and neither would Bernie Sanders, who will, btw, be 75 years old by the time the election rolls around (six years older than Clinton).

Dahlia's picture

And if Hillary wins, she will be 74 when she runs again, so do w

really want to get into an age war?

No, I've said before I'll hold my nose and vote for her if she's the nominee, which it looks like she will be, only because I could never vote Trump, but she better not screw it up. She and her supporters are SO sure she's the best choice. I have big doubts and I'll be furious with her if she pulls stupid crap.

bizgrrl's picture

The Wonkette is angry!

You say you want a revolution?

Nice Grandpa Bernie Sanders Gonna burn your sh*t dowwwwwn

Wonkette has been officially neutral in the Democratic primary, until now. (We know, angry commenters; Wonkette says it has been neutral but has been a reliable source of bought-and-paid-for neoliberal corporate piece of shit one-percenter shilling for a mass murderer who will be arrested for “emails” any day now. Fair enough!)

But if your “revolution” includes disinformation, aimed to rile up your supporters, that would make Pravda and Ronald Reagan blush, you can make like your healthcare, and keep it!

fischbobber's picture

To quote Ms. Schoenkopf

(We are not very good at journalism sometimes.)
Read more at http://wonkette.com/601971/nice-grandpa-bernie-sanders-gonna-burn-your-sht-dowwwwwn#Rqy0AL0J8hj45WPw.99

That's why opinion pieces are, well, opinion. First she insinuates Sanders people might possibly have committed 58 cases of felony voter fraud, then she says no one knows where these people are. Seems like the Clinton campaign could lock up this election by backing up their rhetoric to me. Or maybe not.

Somebody's picture

(No subject)

CE Petro's picture

Manipulation at NV Dem Convention

As told by a Hillary supporter.
(link...)

Bernie didn't "incite violence" the party's state chairwoman is to blame with the shady politics she played.
(link...)

And finally, for those of us that are truly progressives (meaning to the left of Obama, Hillary, and other establishment Dems), I truly wish I had written this, as I read it, I felt like Rall was in my head.
(link...)

Progressive Democratic voters are understandably unenthusiastic about Hillary Clinton. After enduring her conservative Southern Democratic husband (major accomplishments: bombing Bosnia, ignoring Rwanda, NAFTA, trashing welfare) and Obama (major accomplishments: drones, Libya, Syria, Iraq again), they know what's coming: more of the same. Because they're not willing to ditch the Democratic Party, however, they're trapped in a state of cognitive dissonance, unable to act in order to avoid certain disaster.

T.Kirkpatrick's picture

It's worth noting . . .

It's worth noting that within 90 minutes of the voice vote accepting the "temporary rules," that James Bilbray, a four-term Nevada Congressman and a Clinton supporter, arose from his seat, walked to the exit, and left while tearing up his ballot and credentials as a delegate. He did this, according to his daughter, Erin Bilbray, not because he was disgusted with the behavior of the Sanders delegates. He left because he was disgusted with the behavior, and obvious collusion of the NV Dems leadership with the Clinton campaign. It was perceived by him as a rigged state convention.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Missing info...

What would be helpful in more clearly understanding this incident would be a complete play-by-play of the events to have unfolded at the convention (and even the video clip I linked previously isn't "complete").

Apparently, the Nevada state party was challenged in court, by the Sanders campaign, *before* the convention for passing this bylaw that allowed the state chair to adopt temporary rules changes for the convention? But some reports claim that she subsequently failed to follow the guidance contained in the newly adopted bylaws? I had to read umpteen media reports before I even learned of this suit *prior to* the convention, and I still can't claim to understand the particulars.

I am withholding judgment on the ire displayed by Sanders supporters at the convention until I more clearly understand these details.

(And FYI, even though I remain a Sanders supporter, I *have* taken exception to the tactics of some of his supporters before. I objected to them insisting it was "necessary" to infiltrate that chaotic Trump event in Chicago and felt that their protest would have been every bit as effective from outside the hall, behind the police barricades.)

Anyway, interested in any specifics anyone can dig up.

Average Guy's picture

A bit more thorough

(link...)

Here's a good GOP example of predetermination; (link...)

For those who seemed shocked by all the wrangling, here's a little secret:

Political insiders control the political landscape.

Past, present, and unless voters start paying attention to those weird sounding, irrelevant seeming, usually uncontested, back ballot races - future.

jmcnair's picture

No chairs were thrown.

One of our Doyle classmates who now lives in Nevada was a delegate. He shares "this article [as] the most representative of reality published thus far. Speaking as a delegate who was actually present at that event, it's very refreshing to finally read something resembling the truth."


http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/18/how-democrats-manipulated-nevada-state-party-convention-then-blamed-sanders-chaos

T.Kirkpatrick's picture

Corroboration:

I was there. No chairs flew. There were no threats of violence by Sanders delegates to the Nevada Democratic State Convention. I do not think it is a stretch to consider Barbara Boxer's performance there a very successful effort to bait the Sanders delegates into looking and sounding pretty ugly. Then again, what she said was pretty ugly. But all of this, and especially the highly dramatic entrance by LV Metro PD, were mere epilogue.

The convention was over before it was officially scheduled to open, when the State Chair of the NV Dems called for a voice vote on acceptance of the "temporary rules" as permanent. Knowing what the content of those rules were, and then proclaiming that they "ayes" had it when that was decidedly not a clear fact, told anyone there who thought about it much what was in store for the rest of the day.

The local journalist, Jon Ralston, who had lately achieved some national attention as the "go-to guy" of Nevada politics, only this week finally paid the price for his reporting. As of Tuesday, he lost his weekday show on LV and Reno PBS.

Stick's picture

Old is New

Well, this is depressing. Why are y'all so hellbent on re-living the 08 madness?

fischbobber's picture

08? This will make 1968 look like a grade school birthday party.

Philadelphia is a machine town. Hillary owns the machine. Sanders supporters will be beat bloody, gassed and probably shot. Philadelphia police aren't known for their charming nature and the party is clearly ordering a beatdown.

R. Neal's picture

OK, then.

OK, then.

fischbobber's picture

Remember....

You read it here first.

Then, Hillary will take the nomination.

(link...)

Rachel's picture

Oh good grief. Some of y'all

Oh good grief. Some of y'all have really drunk the coolaid.

fischbobber's picture

Facts coming to light......

(link...)

It would appear the Clinton spin machine is somewhat more organized than the Sanders machine, but that perhaps they are playing loose and free with the truth.

It would behoove her to come together with Sanders and the whole of the party on policy and her platform. She controls her own destiny.

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