Fri
Dec 5 2008
09:27 am
Jail on the Green?
By: Bill Pittman

The recently proposed inmate intake center on the greenspace adjacent to the C/C building isn't getting much attention and the proposed savings from not having to transport prisoners is appealing but once again, Knoxville seems to be less than visionary.

In my opinion, our government should be planning long-term to NOT have our city servants & prisoners occupy prime, waterfront property rather than solidifying the current situation. Even more obvious is the unfortunate use of the AJ Bldg overlooking the river which houses primarily government employees.

Many previous decisions, whether it be allowing a "mission district" to develop or allowing a misplaced interstate to be torn down and re-built on the same, poorly-chosen spot, belies a fundamental problem that our government has pertaining to lack of vision and doing the right thing for the long term.

Oh well,

Topics:
bizgrrl's picture

I agree, wholeheartedly. In

Submitted by bizgrrl on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 9:42am.

I agree, wholeheartedly.

In looking at KGIS for the area surrounding the C/C bldg, I see empty space on Main Street (corner of Main and Walnut) and land owned by First Baptist between Walnut and Locust (bordering Neyland?).

What is the location for this "proposed inmate intake center" ?

Justin's picture

Link... Click the street

Submitted by Justin on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 10:22am.

(link...)

Click the street view.

rocketsquirrel's picture

ummm...the front lawn of the

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 9:54am.

ummm...the front lawn of the city county building.

seriously. this is not an episode of South Park.

the front lawn of the city county building.

stunningly stupid.

R. Neal's picture

Link... The print edition

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 10:31am.

(link...)

The print edition has a graphic that's not online. It is the lawn right in front of the CC bldg. on Main St. just over from the Courthouse.

Bizgrrl, it's where the Harold Ford rallies were held, for reference.

bizgrrl's picture

That's just absurd. Downtown

Submitted by bizgrrl on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 11:04am.

That's just absurd. Downtown barely has any greenspace as it is, then they want to take this area for a jail. Please don't do it.

R. Neal's picture

Also, isn't that right

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 11:05am.

Also, isn't that right behind the main KTrans bus transfer location on Main St.? They can outsource transportation to KAT, too, and save more money!

Anonymously Nine's picture

Enough of Big Jim

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 11:05am.

The idea is to have a tunnel to walk the prisoners to court. Yet strangely many of the people who oppose this idea the most are the same people who believe in Global Warming. The “no solution” crowd always has a reason not to do something. This is a practical idea with a solid breakeven.

This is a better location than State Street. It pays for itself over time. What commercial or residential property is needed at this location? The idea that the courts and justice system are going to move from the City County building is delusional.

Lumpy Lambert once had an idea on the radio to move the City County building to the Convention Center and turn the City County building into condos. I think others believe that could work. But if you have ever been in the lower levels of the City County building you would realize how farfetched that idea is. By farfetched read impossible. No government could afford it.

Should the City County building have been built where it is? Of course not. But Big Jim Haslam is the one who did it. And he cannot be wrong. The City County building stays. What this should be is another beacon of light that the infallible Jim Haslam is very fallible. Yet he still rules. Doesn’t say much for the common sense of the serfs does it? Even after placing the City County building on the waterfront Big Jim convince the City fathers to build the Convention Center. Can we stop listening to Big Jim now?

(link...)

The business leaders and Testerman turned to Haslam to take on the project of building the City County Building to anchor the south end of downtown, with the TVA Towers anchoring the north end. All the space in the middle would then be developed. The effort began in earnest in 1972, and the building was fully occupied in 1980, said at the time to be the largest office building in Tennessee.

State Sen. Brown Ayers, from Knoxville, got legislation passed creating a Public Building Authority. Putting city and county government in the same building had not worked because neither government wanted to have the other as a landlord. The PBA was to be a neutral entity to manage the building. Haslam headed the PBA board from its inception until he was ousted by Knox County Commissioners in the 1990s because of his support for metro government.

Haslam’s success in getting the City County Building done established him as an up and coming leader in the community.

Anonymously Nine's picture

Matt Edens

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 11:11am.

opines;

(link...)

Why not build it?

Rather than bury the jail expansion in the hillside, under some sort of green roof (the ultimate nature band-aid), if anything needs to be hidden, it’s the City County Building. Build the new structure up and out, and include new assembly rooms while you’re at it. Shouldn’t a city have a public meeting space it can take pride in—or at least find? Lose the lawn, but allow the new building to frame and define the current plaza, making it a place Knoxvillians can use. Or, better yet, one they’d want to.

Rachel's picture

This is why there was a

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 2:18pm.

This is why there was a meeting last night about imposing restrictions on use of the greenspace. I had to miss it - unfortunately - but you can comment on them by going to the PBA homepage (link...). The deadline for comments is TODAY.

BTW, Matt's ideas have merit, but I live in a reality based world. It's the jail with the greenspace destroyed, or the jail with the greenspace not destroyed. I prefer to see it not destroyed.

I do plan to include in my comments that work needs to be done to make the greenspace more user friendly.

Anonymously Nine's picture

Um,

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 2:40pm.

BTW, Matt's ideas have merit, but I live in a reality based world.

But do you live in a return on investment world?

This greenspace talk is not about reality. It is the worst of progressiveism. Those that care so much about the greenspace should raise the money to pay for it. The number of people in this county that see or use that greenspace is a very small fraction of the people that pay the taxes to support it. That isn't reality.

Rachel's picture

Oh good grief. I've never

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 4:50pm.

Oh good grief. I've never set foot on the Karns soccer fields. Neither have most of the people in Knox County. The number of people who "see or use it is a very small fraction of the people who pay taxes to support it." So let's build some big ugly building on it instead.

Time to borrow from Tamara - shoo. You're just being annoying at this point.

bizgrrl's picture

Thanks, Rachel. Well said.

Submitted by bizgrrl on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 4:59pm.

Thanks, Rachel. Well said.

Anonymously Nine's picture

Shoo, the call of the North American Elitist

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 5:42pm.

The number of people who "see or use it is a very small fraction of the people who pay taxes to support it." So let's build some big ugly building on it instead.

First, you are the only one who has suggested a "big ugly building" be built there. Edens is right, it is a chance to use an unused piece of property for multiple good outcomes that benefit all taxpayers.

Second, if building something on the Karns soccer field saved taxpayers a million dollars a year it would be considered. There are other places a soccer field can be built.

This is the only parcel that can accommodate an underground tunnel to get prisoners to court. The cost savings and the security factors are significant.

Your nimbyism is duly noted.

Rachel's picture

WTF does nimbyism have to do

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 5:52pm.

WTF does nimbyism have to do with anything? I live at least 2 miles from the C/C Bldg.

And BTW, if you read my comments, I've really taken no position on the jail. I just want to preserve the greenspace (and make it more user-friendly).

PBA's restrictions don't preclude a building. They just require certain conditions under which it be built.

So yeah, shoo.

edens's picture

let's build some big ugly

Submitted by edens on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 6:55pm.

let's build some big ugly building on it instead.

That, curiously, cuts right to Kunstler's point, as a society we've lost all confidence in our ability to build anything worth a damn:

This block lay along our town’s main street. What it plainly called for was re-urbanization - namely the erection of traditional main street building types consistent with the stuff already there. But having no faith in urbanism, and having no training in civic design, the environmentalists could imagine only nature as a solution: trees, grass, et cetera (forgetting for a moment that even parks are man-made artifacts).

The larger tragedy of this incident, of course, is that the group in question was composed of the best-educated, most politically progressive people in town. And when you can’t depend on them to think clearly about these issues, then who do you turn to?

And monstrosities like the city county building are a big reason why we've lost that faith. As Minchey pointed out on the blab - that "greenspace" is addressed by the CC Building, 1st Baptist, the Old Courthouse and Whittlesburg and which one does PBA decide any new building ought to blend with? Wtf?

Nor does building a structure - rather than hiding it under some sort of pseudo natural "green roof" - preclude people using the public space that structure defines to eat lunch, grab a smoke or peaceably assemble. If done right, it might make it more likely that, should they chose to assemble, someone will notice.

Rachel's picture

It's the jail with the

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 5:54pm.

It's the jail with the greenspace destroyed, or the jail with the greenspace not destroyed. I prefer to see it not destroyed.

Rereading this, I see I overstated a bit - there is a third option: the status quo. I just don't see anyway in hell Matt's ideas will actually come to fruition, although, as I said, there's merit in them.

R. Neal's picture

(No subject)

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 2:54pm.

rikki's picture

yesterday's meeting

Submitted by rikki on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 6:20pm.

There was hardly a soul at the meeting yesterday. Will Skelton spoke in favor of preserving the green space but was not opposed to developing the back portion along Hill Ave. Bill(?) McCarty of McCarty-Holsapple-McCarty also spoke. He was one of the designers of the C/C Bldg and spoke of the lawn as a continuation of the Market St corridor.

It is flat-out wrong to say no one uses that lawn. There have been many gatherings, rallies, vigils, etc there over the years, and people eat lunch there or sit and read when the weather is nice, perhaps less so while the bus transfer point is there, but it will be moving to a new home soon.

I think of that space as an expression of the right of the people peaceably to assemble.

S Carpenter's picture

Thanks for going Rikki, I will leave comments for the PBA FWIW

Submitted by S Carpenter on Fri, 2008/12/05 - 8:51pm.

Did anyone address the conceptualized jail structure? Was the Sheriff present?

SC

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