Highlights:
Ordinarily, there’s a world of difference between Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic nominee for president, and former Georgia congressman Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party’s nominee. But voters tell CNN that machines in Knox County, Tennessee had them confused about which of the two men they were voting for.
And for local coverage referred to by the CNN story...
(link...)
“It’s not really been a problem,” Mackay said. “It’s just taken time to explain it to people, and we’re going to instruct our workers about it, too. As soon as we found out about it, we showed the League of Women Voters and both (presidential) campaigns.
I for one consider it a problem when sloppy programming of a voting machine makes voters confused about who they voted for. I don't care whose fault this is, it is embarrassing for all of Knox Co. We should be able to do better than this.
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Machine votes Mckinney for Obama in TN -McKinney Response
(link...)
I sent the following letter to TN Election authorities today:
October 23, 2008
Tennessee Department of State
Division of Elections
Attention: Grace Bonecutter or Shelley Adams
312 Rosa L. Parks Avenue
9th Floor, Snodgrass Tower
Nashville, TN 37243-1102
Via electronic mail
RE: (link...)
Ms. Bonecutter or Ms. Adams:
It has come to my attention that the early voting process in your state has revealed some real flaws in Tennessee's touch screen voting machines that have presented voters with unnecessary difficulties. Quite frankly, I have been issuing public warnings about the flaws of these electronic voting machines since their mass deployment across our country in 2000. It saddens me that so little has been done to ensure election integrity in 2008.
It is my understanding that the wife of the maker of the film, "Uncounted" had a vote-flipping experience which is now being reported. A copy of that report was forwarded to me for my information. I do want to make it clear to you that I do not want any votes counted in my tally that do not reflect the will of the voter to cast a vote for me. Conversely, in cases where it is the will of the voter to vote for my running mate, Rosa Clemente, and me, I do not want unreliable and untrustworthy electronic voting machines to incorrectly and unfairly tally, or undercount, McKinney/Clemente votes.
I do want you to be aware of these reports and I request that you take all possible steps within applicable rules and regulations to avoid these reported experiences in future voting, especially on Election Day. Voters and candidates should have complete confidence that the announced election results are reflective of the will of the voters. Please read the report below for more information. I am including the reporter's information on this message so you can contact her directly. I wish you and the voters of Tennessee, and this country, a successful election free of flaws and voter disfranchisement.
I do look forward to hearing from you soon on this matter.
Sincerely,
Cynthia McKinney
A statewide pattern of faulty voting machines?
We seem to have a slightly different issue in Knox co, regarding the machine itself, but the overall problem is the same. Ineptly designed or programmed voting machines that confuse and frustrate voters.
I hope these machines have recyclable parts, cause it sounds like their all going to be scrapped by 2010.
thanks
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Lame...
"It's not really been a problem..." --Mackay
I wonder if it would be more of a problem if there was a guy surnamed "Johnson" on the ballot too. Or another guy named Bob or John. Would that cause enough confusion to fix it?
Bob Barr supporters should be even less pleased about this than Obama voters. After all, Bob Barr voters could easily think they're voting for Bar[r], even if they've accidently selected Bar[ack Obama]. (But since that probably won't happen TOO often, I guess it's not really a problem.)
Sheesh. The entire point of having the summary page is to clarify that the desired selections have been made. Truncating the presidential vote summary to the first three letters of the candidates' first names is colossally idiotic when names share common letters. I know Mackay is one of the good guys, but there's really no excuse for something this dumb.
The "BAR" thing really did
The "BAR" thing really did take me back for a moment, and I'd read about it beforehand. I have great respect for Greg McKay, but using the first three letters of someone's FIRST name in the summary is just lame. Maybe this can be the last time that happens?
using the first three
using the first three letters of someone's FIRST name in the summary is just lame
I don't think this was a deliberate decision. There is probably a character limit the programmer either forgot about or wasn't aware of, and it's all that excessive verbage about "electors for Democratic presidential candidate..." using up the available space.
Going in and fiddling with the programming in the middle of early voting would not be wise, but I hope they can address this issue when the machines get reprogrammed for polling place operation. If the issue is indeed a character limit, abbreviating or trimming words should fix it.
Note that "Democratic" and "Republican" are both 10 letters long, but Libertarian goes to 11, so Bob Barr might actually show up just as "BO", even more confusing!
Exactly
We shouldn't be here. Its a really bad glitch that is probably going to freak out untold numbers on election day.
Re Mackay: I've also been told time and time again that he is a good guy, and I believe he is. He has promoted convenience and early voting in a county government widely criticized for its intransigence. But on several occasions on this blog and in the media I have seen dismissive responses from him that seem to do nothing but defend the status quo, like the one I quoted above.
On the other hand, he does seem to come around after a bit, so I am trying not to get too snarky with him. And I'm quite sure I don't understand all the institutional pressures working on him to make him behave this way. So while I'm not giving him a pass on this, I'm not asking for his head either. He seems to take his job very seriously and is probably the best we've had in that job (anyone else want to weigh in on this).
We probably should be thinking about how to empower him to make the needed changes, rather than blaming him for them.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
I've also been told time and
I've also been told time and time again that he is a good guy
Trust me. He is. Although I hate to say it on this blog given our reputation around town that should in no way reflect on him. (A reputation that we wear as a badge of honor, by the way.)
He's in a tough spot given the political climate around here. His answers are sometimes terse because he's walking a tightrope between doing his job as professionally and impartially as he can and strictly following election laws as he is charged to do and at the same time being open and bringing transparency to the process, including being totally open to the media and even responding to and participating in local blogs, which only a handful of good government people do around here. (And because he gets hammered with these questions at the busiest time for election officials.)
Even though I (and the Mrs.) have had some disagreements with him, I trust the guy. And so should Republicans. Knox Co. elections are in professional, non-partisan hands with everyone at the Knox Co. Election Commission on election day.
That said, this stuff with the confirmation page is a little goofy.
I agree
I think Greg does a heckova job, and I still credit him with buying the best electronic voting machines he could when mandated after the 2000 elections to dispose of the old ones. We could have ended up with Diebold or Sequoyah, like 80% of the country was buying, but we bucked the trend and we're MUCH better for it.
Given that it's the voting machine software, it's not something GM could have designed in intentionally, and the only way around it would have been to use a cryptic wording ("ELECTRS4 B.O."?)
Does anyone remember how the summary page looked in 2004, the last presidential?
I've seen this reported, but
I've seen this reported, but I don't remember seeing it in Blount Co. when I voted. We use exactly the same machines. And I was double and triple checking everything, so I can't imagine how I would miss that. (Maybe it says Democrat or "D" in there somewhere, and that's all I needed.)
I saw it at New Harvest Park and it bugged the hell out of me
I saw it where I voted- New Harvest Park.
It bugged the hell out of me at the time, but I eventually figured out that BAR was for Barack Obama.
Clearly many others were confused too.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Not saying you and others
Not saying you and others didn't see it. It's been pretty widely reported and mentioned here I believe. I'm just wondering what's different between the Blount v. Knox setup using exactly the same machines. I guess I assumed they're all using the same canned software that generates the same canned confirmation page, and somehow I just didn't notice it on ours.
I didn't know they were the same machines
Maybe slightly different software?
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
I don't remember a "D" or
I don't remember a "D" or any party indicator. It comes up as "ELECTORS FOR BAR" on the display. I appreciated the quick civics lesson about the electoral college, but why waste space on those characters and not just put the whole name on it? It's a summary.
The rest of the ballot had just the names (with enough letters that it was clear who the picks were). After we voted, my wife and I talked about it being screwy since Barr's name is on the ballot, and that we had both backed up to the first page to double check our picks. I wish I'd thought to take a cellphone photo... someone who hasn't voted yet should do that if it's legal.
Oh well. With no paper trail, there's already a big leap of faith assuming the programming is legit for counting the votes, but this obvious shortsightedness doesn't really instill much confidence. (especially in a state where they can't even program a computer to pick lottery numbers without screwing up.)
So I guess one qood question
So I guess one qood question is, how much control does the sysadmin have over the confirmation page template layout and content?
Greg Mackay is definitely a
Greg Mackay is definitely a good administrator. He understands the risks with electronic voting as well as anyone, and he has done a great job making early voting accessible throughout the county. He has also added a lot to the KCEC website, works hard to keep people informed and has cleaned up a lot of the misspellings and glitches in the voter database.
He is not all-powerful, and when things have been less than ideal, it's usually been the law itself or decisions in Nashville that are to blame.
Electors for . . .
First: This was a mistake.
The system allows us to lower the font on the summary page (like Blount County did) and we failed to do that.
The summary page gets its’ information from the ballot you voted. Thus the “Electors for . . . .”. It prints the first three letters of the candidates’ first name and then runs out of room.
So if you want to vote for Obama it shows “Electors for Bar”.
If you want to vote for McCain it shows “Electors for Joh”.
If you want to vote for Barr it shows”Electors for Bob”.
The last thing I wanted to do was add confusion to a situation filled with fear and mistrust. If we had lowered the font this problem would not exist.
Keep in mind: If you vote for your candidate and breeze through the summary page, or if you understand that it is only printing the first three letters of your candidates first name then this really has no effect on you or your vote.
If a voter is concerned I hope they will take a minute to understand what is happening. You can go back, select another candidate and watch what happens. You will see, it is showing the first three letters of the candidates’ first name.
We are explaining the problem to people that ask at the Early Voting Centers. We have shown it to our election day workers and instructed them to be ready if asked. The vast majority of the voters realize what is happening or do not even notice.
We don’t want to explain the problem to people who are not concerned. We are instructing our workers to tell every voter “If you have a question about the summary screen be sure and ask.” Then if they ask we will explain it to them.
The way we present the summary page makes some people question if their candidate is getting their vote. But they are.
We have a training machine set up here at the Courthouse. Anyone is welcome to come up here and look at it. When you see it you will understand.
I am sorry for the confusion this has caused.
Greg Mackay
still a chance?
Is it possible to lower the font once early voting ends so this is not a problem on election day? If that is an easy thing to change with these new machines and the window of opportunity is still open, it would fix the problem.
Is it possible to lower the font once early voting ends
No, all the data cards are done at once. It is a unified system.
Greg Mackay asked me to post
Greg Mackay asked me to post these photo examples of what he's talking about. Here you go:
30 point type in 20/20 hindsight
Well... on the bright side, there shouldn't be many complaints about the type being too small to read!
Well, the photos explain why
Well, the photos explain why I didn't remember seeing this in Blount Co. I would have definitely noticed that.
this is pretty inexcusable.
this is pretty inexcusable. While it's good Mackay is taking responsibility for it, and it is doubtful that there was any intent to deceive here, it unfortunately creates a lot more doubt about our electronic voting systems. It would seem the software would allow for a contest "long form" name and a "short form" name, if font size is a problem.
Summary screen could be:
Obama: Electors for Pres and VP
McCain: Electors for Pres and VP
Barr: Electors for Pres and VP
Alexander: US Senate
Tuke: US Senate
Duncan: US House
or some such.
Someone should be held accountable for this. Or is that not done in Knox County?
ES&S machines in WV
____________________________
the distance between black & white is much further than i would like until now i never noticed that fascism has many disguises -d. boon, 1981