I voted friday 10-24-08 at 4pm at New Harvest Park and was disturbed to have to sign an "application for ballot" that said something to the effect of, "If you apply to vote early and are not qualified to do so you can be fined 3000 dollars and charged with a felony."
What would a first time, or even slightly confused, voter think when asked to sign such a statement?
It felt like voter intimidation to me, so I asked the poll worker what it meant. The kindly old lady looked at it, and admitted she had never read it. She said, "Well, I guess it means that if you aren't registered, or aren't a citizen, then you can't vote." I said I didn't like having to sign the statement, which seemed intimidating. At least one poll worker agreed with me.
I tried to find the exact wording of the"application for ballot" on the Knox County Election Commission website, but couldn't. Thats part of the problem.
The website makes no reference to this statement on the website, though they do make reference to the "application for ballot" that it is a part of.
http://www.knoxcounty.org/election/pdfs/what_to_expect.pdf
Here it states:
The registrar will look up your name in the poll book and have you complete an application for ballot.
Further down the page it seems to address the issue of what might happen to a voter who tries to vote without being registered:
If you are at the correct voting precinct but we cannot find that you are registered to vote, and you claim that you registered to vote at a particular agency, the only alternative that you have is to vote a Provisional Ballot. You will first complete an application to vote by provisional ballot. Then you will be handed a paper ballot to vote on and place in a provisional ballot envelope and deposited in the provisional ballot box. Note- whether or not your provisional vote will count will be based on whether or not we can verify that you actually did register to vote with another public agency.
Nowhere does the Knox County Election Commission (KCEC) website prepare the voter for having to sign a statement that states that they will be fined 3000$ and charged with a felony if they apply to vote without being "qualified". This needs to change.
The only place on the KCEC website where I can find a statement like the one on the "application for ballot" is on the voter registration form where it states:
WARNING: Giving false information to register to vote or attempting to register when not qualified is a felony punishable by not less than one (1) year nor more than six (6) years’ imprisonment or a fine of $3,000 or both.
http://www.knoxcounty.org/election/pdfs/registration.pdf
Even this statement is extreme. What if you attempt to register without knowing you aren't qualified? Maybe you have a felony conviction that doesn't bar you from voting in the state you were convicted in, but does disqualify you in TN. Seems like any sane judge would throw such a case out. So why word it this way on either the registration form or the application for ballot? Why not simply include language that emphasizes that the falsification must be on purpose, something like "Knowingly giving false information to register to vote is a felony punishable by not less than one year...."
I anticipate a response by Mr Mackay, our fine elections administrator, who I do NOT hold accountable for this voter intimidation on the application for ballot. Mackay seems to have done more than previous election administrators to make voting easy and unintimidating (I would like voting machines that give you a paper receipt that provides a record of who you voted for, but that's another issue.), and he should be commended for his work on convenience and early voting. This intimidation on the application for ballot is totally out of character for his office.
Thanks
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
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Re. voter receipts, the good
Re. voter receipts, the good news is that a new state law mandates voter verifiable paper ballots and optical scan voting machines be in place for the 2010 elections. Apparently there's enough HAVA and other funding to pay for it (about $25 million).
Minor correction: Greg Mackay is Administrator of Elections, not commissioner.
Election Code
Folks need to know that trifling with the election code is not a trivial matter.
Folks must be advised in no uncertain terms that if convicted of voting fraudulently or providing false information on a voter registration form you will go to jail & face heavy fines.
If an individual is not forewarned of the dire consequences of violating the election code they could find themselves in a world of trouble.
Fine, but don't intimidate.
Granted, but you need to communicate that in a way that doesn't intimidate people who are just trying to vote legally.
Otherwise you're throwing the baby out with the bath-water.
Are you saying that you don't find it intimidating to be threatened with a felony conviction and a 3000$ fine when you go to vote?
Or are you saying that voter intimidation doesn't bother you?
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
A question without a reason...
Or are you saying that voter intimidation doesn't bother you?
When or if it happens. This isn't intimidation.
The wording comes from the State Elections Commission and Greg Mackay has nothing to do with it. He couldn't change this if he wanted to.
What in the hell do you expect? There has to be some language or there would be rampant voter fraud.
Can't please everyone.
But for kicks, why don't you write what you think the wording should be? Enlighten us. Maybe you can be the change agent.
Please substantiate your claims.
Regardless of where the form comes from, its an intimidating form. For a new voter to have to sign a statement saying that you might be subject to a 3000$ fine or a felony charge if you vote and aren't "qualified" sure seems like intimidation to me.
Regardless, please substantiate your claims of a risk of rampant voter fraud. You will of course remember that the whole Alberto Gonzales/political-firing-of-Attorneys scandal was about federal attorneys being fired for not pursuing voter fraud. Their reason for not pursuing voter fraud was that they found it to be an extremely rare occurrence not worth their time.
So you have evidence to the contrary? Please present it here. But don't waste our time with something you heard on WNOX or that you got off some wing-nut blog. Make it evidence that you would be comfortable presenting to an impartial attorney general.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
No, it isn't...
Regardless of where the form comes from, its an intimidating form.
Maybe to you. And that's your right. I don't see it. Are you that easily intimidated?
You do think that something to notify the voter should be there don't you? How about, "If you falsely vote against State Laws the bailiff will whack your pee-pee"? Is that better?
I don't think this crusade will go far. But good luck. I am always up for some windmill tilting.
put up or shut up
Give me your evidence of massive voter fraud or go home.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Shoo
Give me your evidence of massive voter fraud or go home.
Tamara uses the call of the "North American Elitist". Shoo, shoo, shoo
Maybe you should try that?
http://bp3.blogger.com/_M2YbACNSSik/SFRny7vi3xI/AAAAAAAABLI/YznqOj1oteE/...
So I guess you'll be shutting up and going home now?
Or is asking for evidence so "elitist" that you feel as if you are above responding?
You are a parody of yourself #9.
Here's something to read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?_r=1&hp=&pagew...
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Really?
Give me your evidence of massive voter fraud or go home.
That is what you call a "request". Your people skills need a little work.
Actually, I asked you before how you would word the document. You declined to answer. So why would I waste time on your demand?
Keep recruiting. You got just the style our side needs.
If you read my first post you would see my suggested wording.
Read it slowly. Mouth the words if you have to.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Incomplete...
If you read my first post you would see my suggested wording.
"If you apply to vote early and are not qualified to do so you can be fined 3000 dollars and charged with a felony."
Why would anyone take that seriously? It is very incomplete.
It has no mention of what "not qualified" means. I am all for simple concise legal language but that doesn't protect the voter. What about new citizens who have not met residency requirements? I don't want to see someone lose a green card because they don't understand the law. Keep your day job.
If writing Election Law was easy more attorneys would do it.
Try it again, read each word (hint) especially the ones I BOLDED
The passage is right here....
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
The Digit's inability to
The Digit's inability to distinguish between you quoting what the form said and your suggested rewording certainly casts an interesting light on his interpretation of the KNS user agreement.
You understand it, you would be the first...
The Digit's inability to distinguish between you quoting what the form said and your suggested rewording certainly casts an interesting light on his interpretation of the KNS user agreement.
I am not alone. Neither Jack Lail or David Keim understand the user agreement either.
However, I do understand Calvin Ball.
I don't remember seeing this...
.. when I voted at Downtown West. Did I overlook it? Anybody?
"..and if you are not authorized to do so.." is intimidation.
"..and if you provide false information.." is not, as it leaves it to the mind of the voter to consider if they intentionally did something wrong. The former wording sounds like a voter might unintentionally commit a technicality and be fined $3000. That is clearly intimidation.
Greg- what say you?
Did you sign a piece of paper before you voted?
Did you sign a piece of paper before you voted?
If so, you probably just didn't read it.
Most people don't.
I did and got quite a shock.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
I would imagine those forms
I would imagine those forms are standard across the state, so Greg Mackay and KCEC probably have no control over the wording. If so, you would probably want to take this up with your State House rep or senator or the state election commission.
Did it really say "vote early" and not just "vote"? I didn't think the paperwork was any different whether you vote early or on election day.
TN elections commission leaves this unclear
They might be standard, but so few people have mentioned signing anything that I wonder if it isn't a local thing. Of course people could just be forgetting what they signed, or poll workers might forget to get them to sign.
The TN elections commission doesn't make it completely clear where the forms originate:
http://tennessee.gov/sos/rules/1360/1360-02/1360-02-15.pdf
So they could be supplied by the coordinator, or could be supplied by someone else and just "approved" by the coordinator.
Regarding early vs regular voting: As I recall it said "vote early", but I'll be damned if I can find the form on any website anywhere.
Update: Just called the TN elections commission and was forwarded to some lawyers voice-mail. Left a message.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
I think it's best to inform folks
If an individual reads the application for ballot & believes they could be in violation of the election code,intentionally or not,they need to ask the election officials about their concerns.
The election officials are well trained in these matters & will work to insure that everyone who can legally vote will be allowed to vote.
I do not share the concerns of others on this thread.
I think it is best to inform folks of the dire consequences of being convicted of violating the election code.
encourage people to vote, leave the intimidation out of it
I think its best to encourage people to vote and leave the voter intimidation out of it. Voter fraud is not widespread.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?_r=1&hp=&pagew...
Voter intimidation/suppression is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression#Examples_of_voter_suppres...
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Intimidation
I was an Election Commissioner for 8 years and have been the Administrator of Elections for over five.
I have never heard from or heard of any legitimate voter who was intimidated because we warned them of the consequences of voter fraud.
Greg Mackay
Well now you have.
And I'm not alone.
So you don't think ANYONE might find it intimidating to have to sign a statement that threatens a 3000$ fine and a felony charge before they can vote?
Regardless, shouldn't you at least prepare the voter for signing this document? How about providing a version of it on your website? Seems like a pretty painless thing to do.
Also, who comes up with the wording for these things? Is it the county or the state?
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
why would the TELL you?
if a guy sticks a gun in my face and asks for my wallet, I'm just going to hand it over. I'm not likely to point out to him that he intimidated me.
If the standardis knowingly giving false information, that's how the warning should be worded. The last thing this county needs is to lose another expensive lawsuit.
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