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Voter intimidation, perhaps unintentional, on the "application for ballot" in Knox County
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Re. voter receipts, the good news is that a new state law mandates voter verifiable paper ballots and optical scan voting machines be in place for the 2010 elections. Apparently there's enough HAVA and other funding to pay for it (about $25 million).
Minor correction: Greg Mackay is Administrator of Elections, not commissioner.
Folks need to know that trifling with the election code is not a trivial matter.
Folks must be advised in no uncertain terms that if convicted of voting fraudulently or providing false information on a voter registration form you will go to jail & face heavy fines.
If an individual is not forewarned of the dire consequences of violating the election code they could find themselves in a world of trouble.
Granted, but you need to communicate that in a way that doesn't intimidate people who are just trying to vote legally.
Otherwise you're throwing the baby out with the bath-water.
Are you saying that you don't find it intimidating to be threatened with a felony conviction and a 3000$ fine when you go to vote?
Or are you saying that voter intimidation doesn't bother you?
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Or are you saying that voter intimidation doesn't bother you?
When or if it happens. This isn't intimidation.
The wording comes from the State Elections Commission and Greg Mackay has nothing to do with it. He couldn't change this if he wanted to.
What in the hell do you expect? There has to be some language or there would be rampant voter fraud.
Can't please everyone.
But for kicks, why don't you write what you think the wording should be? Enlighten us. Maybe you can be the change agent.
Regardless of where the form comes from, its an intimidating form. For a new voter to have to sign a statement saying that you might be subject to a 3000$ fine or a felony charge if you vote and aren't "qualified" sure seems like intimidation to me.
Regardless, please substantiate your claims of a risk of rampant voter fraud. You will of course remember that the whole Alberto Gonzales/political-firing-of-Attorneys scandal was about federal attorneys being fired for not pursuing voter fraud. Their reason for not pursuing voter fraud was that they found it to be an extremely rare occurrence not worth their time.
So you have evidence to the contrary? Please present it here. But don't waste our time with something you heard on WNOX or that you got off some wing-nut blog. Make it evidence that you would be comfortable presenting to an impartial attorney general.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Regardless of where the form comes from, its an intimidating form.
Maybe to you. And that's your right. I don't see it. Are you that easily intimidated?
You do think that something to notify the voter should be there don't you? How about, "If you falsely vote against State Laws the bailiff will whack your pee-pee"? Is that better?
I don't think this crusade will go far. But good luck. I am always up for some windmill tilting.
Give me your evidence of massive voter fraud or go home.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Give me your evidence of massive voter fraud or go home.
Tamara uses the call of the "North American Elitist". Shoo, shoo, shoo
Maybe you should try that?
Link...
Or is asking for evidence so "elitist" that you feel as if you are above responding?
You are a parody of yourself #9.
Here's something to read.
Link...
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Give me your evidence of massive voter fraud or go home.
That is what you call a "request". Your people skills need a little work.
Actually, I asked you before how you would word the document. You declined to answer. So why would I waste time on your demand?
Keep recruiting. You got just the style our side needs.
Read it slowly. Mouth the words if you have to.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
If you read my first post you would see my suggested wording.
"If you apply to vote early and are not qualified to do so you can be fined 3000 dollars and charged with a felony."
Why would anyone take that seriously? It is very incomplete.
It has no mention of what "not qualified" means. I am all for simple concise legal language but that doesn't protect the voter. What about new citizens who have not met residency requirements? I don't want to see someone lose a green card because they don't understand the law. Keep your day job.
If writing Election Law was easy more attorneys would do it.
The passage is right here....
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
The Digit's inability to distinguish between you quoting what the form said and your suggested rewording certainly casts an interesting light on his interpretation of the KNS user agreement.
The Digit's inability to distinguish between you quoting what the form said and your suggested rewording certainly casts an interesting light on his interpretation of the KNS user agreement.
I am not alone. Neither Jack Lail or David Keim understand the user agreement either.
However, I do understand Calvin Ball.
.. when I voted at Downtown West. Did I overlook it? Anybody?
"..and if you are not authorized to do so.." is intimidation.
"..and if you provide false information.." is not, as it leaves it to the mind of the voter to consider if they intentionally did something wrong. The former wording sounds like a voter might unintentionally commit a technicality and be fined $3000. That is clearly intimidation.
Greg- what say you?
Did you sign a piece of paper before you voted?
If so, you probably just didn't read it.
Most people don't.
I did and got quite a shock.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
I would imagine those forms are standard across the state, so Greg Mackay and KCEC probably have no control over the wording. If so, you would probably want to take this up with your State House rep or senator or the state election commission.
Did it really say "vote early" and not just "vote"? I didn't think the paperwork was any different whether you vote early or on election day.
They might be standard, but so few people have mentioned signing anything that I wonder if it isn't a local thing. Of course people could just be forgetting what they signed, or poll workers might forget to get them to sign.
The TN elections commission doesn't make it completely clear where the forms originate:
Link...
So they could be supplied by the coordinator, or could be supplied by someone else and just "approved" by the coordinator.
Regarding early vs regular voting: As I recall it said "vote early", but I'll be damned if I can find the form on any website anywhere.
Update: Just called the TN elections commission and was forwarded to some lawyers voice-mail. Left a message.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
If an individual reads the application for ballot & believes they could be in violation of the election code,intentionally or not,they need to ask the election officials about their concerns.
The election officials are well trained in these matters & will work to insure that everyone who can legally vote will be allowed to vote.
I do not share the concerns of others on this thread.
I think it is best to inform folks of the dire consequences of being convicted of violating the election code.
I think its best to encourage people to vote and leave the voter intimidation out of it. Voter fraud is not widespread.
Link...
Voter intimidation/suppression is.
Link...
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
I was an Election Commissioner for 8 years and have been the Administrator of Elections for over five.
I have never heard from or heard of any legitimate voter who was intimidated because we warned them of the consequences of voter fraud.
Greg Mackay
And I'm not alone.
So you don't think ANYONE might find it intimidating to have to sign a statement that threatens a 3000$ fine and a felony charge before they can vote?
Regardless, shouldn't you at least prepare the voter for signing this document? How about providing a version of it on your website? Seems like a pretty painless thing to do.
Also, who comes up with the wording for these things? Is it the county or the state?
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
if a guy sticks a gun in my face and asks for my wallet, I'm just going to hand it over. I'm not likely to point out to him that he intimidated me.
If the standardis knowingly giving false information, that's how the warning should be worded. The last thing this county needs is to lose another expensive lawsuit.
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