Submitted by Factchecker on Tue, 2008/10/28 - 7:12pm.
Dumb question: Is there any reason to question the validity of early voting relative to election day. There seems to be "some" who think nefarious forces might conceal some early votes. I know Greg M. would do everything to prevent this, but how much control does he have? It's awfully easy to worry in such a red state; we pretty much know what early voting means, at least this year.
My take would be that it's harder to game early voting than it is election day voting, because anyone from any precinct can vote at any EV location v. bad actors concentrating on selected precincts on election day.
That said, I think you can look at the EV location volume and see who's coming out.
And at the record Blount Co. early voting. (See other post re. that.)
Submitted by Factchecker on Tue, 2008/10/28 - 7:33pm.
I hadn't even seen sugarfatpie's newer post about the machines. 10-4 that Blount Co. post, which is interesting. Hope you're right about gaming the system. Regards.
Submitted by bill young on Wed, 2008/10/29 - 12:44pm.
For 30 years,on & off,I have worked(both early voting & election day) as an election officer,election worker,a Democratic poll watcher & at the polls passing out Democratic hand bills.
I have never seen any hanky panky INSIDE a polling place by folks working for the election commission.NEVER.Mistakes yes but NEVER anything against the law.
You may not want to believe it but I'm telling you there is no bullshit by election officials when it comes to following the law.Votes get counted..period.
Now,though I've never seen it,in the past I know there has been voting buying going on.
Why do I know.
Because I've been working a poll passing out hand bills for a candidate & folks show me a five dollar bill..telling me I got this to vote against you..or I got a half pint to beat your ass.
Or when a ward boss walked up to me about 5 on election day & said..Tell your boy we gonna need a couple of hundred dollars more if he wants to get elected.I had no idea we were buying votes.We lost.
Or when the ward bosses came to me in the morning on election day..I know you've been talking about not giving any walking around money & we understand but we've always been with your boy so where's the money?.I told'em thanks but no thanks.By 10am they were working for the other candidate.We won.
Or working as an election officer one year..& a voter yelled I got only 5 bucks to do figure out this shit? Fuck it...then left.
However in todays world there are no more ward healers passing out cash & half pints..I promise.Why can I say trust me on that? Because the candidates no longer give out money to buy votes.No bang for your buck.The cold cash now goes to media buys & mail outs & consultants...& polls.
I went into all this to tell everybody that yes I know there used to be vote buying.
BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN HANKY PANKY BY ELECTION OFFICIALS.
Mistakes..yes.
BUT NO HANKY PANKY BY ELECTION OFFICIALS! NEVER!!!
In my opinion it's just not happening that some how some way election officials are "stealing" elections or someone is "altering" election vote counts.
The Democrats hollered that song in '00 & '04.Didn't want to admit to ourselves that we lost.
The Republicans are hollering the same ole loser's song in '08...Acorn done stole the election...ect..ect..ect
I don't know what is up in the Knoxville elections - anyone who assumes is a crackpot. However, If I were a Dem., I'd be a little embarrassed about the subject because Acorn seems to be as crooked as they come. Let's be honest.
AS to the election commission, did they not spend oodles on flawed machines? I wonder who told them to spend oodles!!!
I went to early vote today, and there were three people in line dressed as Mickey Mouse, a Goofy and one guy who looked like Elmer J. Fudd. That last one may have just been a coincidence. Only the first Mickey got to vote. The other two were pissed. One stormed off muttering something about petticoats and hoop skirts. I think she was going to return as Scarlet O'Hara. The other tried to say he was actually Chuck E. Cheese, but they said no one had registered under that name.
Given that ACORN has been registering people to vote since 1970, I'm amazed I've never seen this before.
did they not spend oodles on flawed machines? I wonder who told them to spend oodles
Congress.
And actually, they picked pretty much the best of what was available at the time (although they could have spent more oodles and gotten paper receipts). Would you rather be voting on Diebold machines that record random touches on the screen?
No worries, though. The state says they have to spend even more oodles to put in voter verifiable optically scanned paper ballots in time for the 2010 elections.
I caught about 30 minutes of Greg McKay on the HHH show this morning. (more precisely about 10 minutes of talk and 20 minutes of ads and other "stuff")
Anyway, he made the point several times that voter registration fraud may be out there happening rarely, but he hasn't seen any real evidence of voter fraud. Of course, there were several callers alleging fraud.
Submitted by bill young on Thu, 2008/10/30 - 11:01am.
I went to the meetings concerning the voting machines we now use.
If I'm not mistaken the county was mandated by Congress per HAVA to buy new machines in '06.Thru the state the Congress aloted around a million for the county to purchase new machines.The county must follow state regulations & law with respect to how elections are conducted.The state did not allow paper receipts.
I would have agreed to scanners in '06 but the state did not allow it.
I agree something aint right with ACORN & if people need to go to jail put em in jail.But what ACORN did will not decide the election.
Submitted by sugarfatpie on Thu, 2008/10/30 - 4:54pm.
You need to do a little more research on this issue before you start screaming for jail time.
You miss two key points:
WHO: This isn't ACORN but rather people they hired. ACORN actually reported the problem to the authorities, who would probably not have found it otherwise.
WHAT: The people ACORN hired committed registration fraud, not voter fraud.Voter registration fraud is entirely different from voter fraud. Voter fraud occurs when someone tries to vote twice, or an un-registered person somehow manages to vote.
Voter registration fraud occurs when someone registers a non-existent person to vote. It becomes voter fraud only if that person actually appears. Since ACORN reported the registration fraud, this isn't possible.
Submitted by Factchecker on Thu, 2008/10/30 - 12:50pm.
I believe your answer, Bill, but I think it was a good idea to air the issue. Thanks and also for the old stories.
Re voting machines and modern ballot fraud, Florida's voter suppression in 2000 by massive voter roll purge and its subsequent inability to properly tally voters' intentions, not to mention the Katherine Harris-administered farce that was supposed to be a recount, definitely changed the outcome of the presidential election in that year, and there have been other significant voting problems in narrowly split swing states, like in Ohio in '04.
I agree something aint right with ACORN
No way. Totally unfounded and plays perfectly into the GOP's spin to help their long term voter suppression efforts. That's exactly what corrupted DOJ prior to Mukasey and resulted in scandal. Decent Republican U.S. attorneys were fired because they wouldn't go along with the Department's program to falsely prosecute voter fraud for political gain.
Submitted by Factchecker on Thu, 2008/10/30 - 12:56pm.
WHO:Those that have given false information on a voter regisration form.
Check that. If some within ACORN are guilty, let the chips fall there too, but that's a far cry from being systemic of the organization (unlike the Gonzales DOJ, by the way). McPalin knows that too, but they're rekindling the same voter fraud horse crap that Gonzales attempted.
As of early voting 10/27 we are 121,000 from 200,000 total vote.
Lets see where we are Friday.
Dumb question: Is there any reason to question the validity of early voting relative to election day. There seems to be "some" who think nefarious forces might conceal some early votes. I know Greg M. would do everything to prevent this, but how much control does he have? It's awfully easy to worry in such a red state; we pretty much know what early voting means, at least this year.
My take would be that it's harder to game early voting than it is election day voting, because anyone from any precinct can vote at any EV location v. bad actors concentrating on selected precincts on election day.
That said, I think you can look at the EV location volume and see who's coming out.
And at the record Blount Co. early voting. (See other post re. that.)
I hadn't even seen sugarfatpie's newer post about the machines. 10-4 that Blount Co. post, which is interesting. Hope you're right about gaming the system. Regards.
For 30 years,on & off,I have worked(both early voting & election day) as an election officer,election worker,a Democratic poll watcher & at the polls passing out Democratic hand bills.
I have never seen any hanky panky INSIDE a polling place by folks working for the election commission.NEVER.Mistakes yes but NEVER anything against the law.
You may not want to believe it but I'm telling you there is no bullshit by election officials when it comes to following the law.Votes get counted..period.
Now,though I've never seen it,in the past I know there has been voting buying going on.
Why do I know.
Because I've been working a poll passing out hand bills for a candidate & folks show me a five dollar bill..telling me I got this to vote against you..or I got a half pint to beat your ass.
Or when a ward boss walked up to me about 5 on election day & said..Tell your boy we gonna need a couple of hundred dollars more if he wants to get elected.I had no idea we were buying votes.We lost.
Or when the ward bosses came to me in the morning on election day..I know you've been talking about not giving any walking around money & we understand but we've always been with your boy so where's the money?.I told'em thanks but no thanks.By 10am they were working for the other candidate.We won.
Or working as an election officer one year..& a voter yelled I got only 5 bucks to do figure out this shit? Fuck it...then left.
However in todays world there are no more ward healers passing out cash & half pints..I promise.Why can I say trust me on that? Because the candidates no longer give out money to buy votes.No bang for your buck.The cold cash now goes to media buys & mail outs & consultants...& polls.
I went into all this to tell everybody that yes I know there used to be vote buying.
BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN HANKY PANKY BY ELECTION OFFICIALS.
Mistakes..yes.
BUT NO HANKY PANKY BY ELECTION OFFICIALS! NEVER!!!
In my opinion it's just not happening that some how some way election officials are "stealing" elections or someone is "altering" election vote counts.
The Democrats hollered that song in '00 & '04.Didn't want to admit to ourselves that we lost.
The Republicans are hollering the same ole loser's song in '08...Acorn done stole the election...ect..ect..ect
This time..We win..they bitch.
Lot more fun.
I don't know what is up in the Knoxville elections - anyone who assumes is a crackpot. However, If I were a Dem., I'd be a little embarrassed about the subject because Acorn seems to be as crooked as they come. Let's be honest.
AS to the election commission, did they not spend oodles on flawed machines? I wonder who told them to spend oodles!!!
Let's be honest here . . .
Let's be honest here . . .
I went to early vote today, and there were three people in line dressed as Mickey Mouse, a Goofy and one guy who looked like Elmer J. Fudd. That last one may have just been a coincidence. Only the first Mickey got to vote. The other two were pissed. One stormed off muttering something about petticoats and hoop skirts. I think she was going to return as Scarlet O'Hara. The other tried to say he was actually Chuck E. Cheese, but they said no one had registered under that name.
Given that ACORN has been registering people to vote since 1970, I'm amazed I've never seen this before.
did they not spend oodles on flawed machines? I wonder who told them to spend oodles
Congress.
And actually, they picked pretty much the best of what was available at the time (although they could have spent more oodles and gotten paper receipts). Would you rather be voting on Diebold machines that record random touches on the screen?
No worries, though. The state says they have to spend even more oodles to put in voter verifiable optically scanned paper ballots in time for the 2010 elections.
I caught about 30 minutes of Greg McKay on the HHH show this morning. (more precisely about 10 minutes of talk and 20 minutes of ads and other "stuff")
Anyway, he made the point several times that voter registration fraud may be out there happening rarely, but he hasn't seen any real evidence of voter fraud. Of course, there were several callers alleging fraud.
I went to the meetings concerning the voting machines we now use.
If I'm not mistaken the county was mandated by Congress per HAVA to buy new machines in '06.Thru the state the Congress aloted around a million for the county to purchase new machines.The county must follow state regulations & law with respect to how elections are conducted.The state did not allow paper receipts.
I would have agreed to scanners in '06 but the state did not allow it.
I agree something aint right with ACORN & if people need to go to jail put em in jail.But what ACORN did will not decide the election.
And who should go to jail and for what?
Please explain.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
WHO:Those that have given false information on a voter regisration form.
What:Giving false information on a voter registration form is a felony.
If warrented they will be taken to the grand jury..if indicted they will go to court..if convicted they will go to jail.
I have no idea what will happen but like I said if folks need to go to jail put em in jail.
You need to do a little more research on this issue before you start screaming for jail time.
You miss two key points:
WHO: This isn't ACORN but rather people they hired. ACORN actually reported the problem to the authorities, who would probably not have found it otherwise.
WHAT: The people ACORN hired committed registration fraud, not voter fraud.Voter registration fraud is entirely different from voter fraud. Voter fraud occurs when someone tries to vote twice, or an un-registered person somehow manages to vote.
Voter registration fraud occurs when someone registers a non-existent person to vote. It becomes voter fraud only if that person actually appears. Since ACORN reported the registration fraud, this isn't possible.
Link...
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Your percentages are probably accurate Bill but I'm guessing your total vote count is low by about 10-15K.
Early and absentee count through yesterday is up to 110,871.
Paul I'm down witt 215K.
Today should be a blow out for turn out
15K sounds good
I believe your answer, Bill, but I think it was a good idea to air the issue. Thanks and also for the old stories.
Re voting machines and modern ballot fraud, Florida's voter suppression in 2000 by massive voter roll purge and its subsequent inability to properly tally voters' intentions, not to mention the Katherine Harris-administered farce that was supposed to be a recount, definitely changed the outcome of the presidential election in that year, and there have been other significant voting problems in narrowly split swing states, like in Ohio in '04.
I agree something aint right with ACORN
No way. Totally unfounded and plays perfectly into the GOP's spin to help their long term voter suppression efforts. That's exactly what corrupted DOJ prior to Mukasey and resulted in scandal. Decent Republican U.S. attorneys were fired because they wouldn't go along with the Department's program to falsely prosecute voter fraud for political gain.
More on that here
Link...
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
WHO:Those that have given false information on a voter regisration form.
Check that. If some within ACORN are guilty, let the chips fall there too, but that's a far cry from being systemic of the organization (unlike the Gonzales DOJ, by the way). McPalin knows that too, but they're rekindling the same voter fraud horse crap that Gonzales attempted.
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