KNS asks readers if they should endorse

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 9:19am

The Knoxville News Sentinel is asking readers if the KNS should endorse a candidate for president. Michael Silence explains, and has a link to a poll.

(I vote yes so we can ridicule their endorsement of Grumpy Old Man and Mean Girl!)

Topics:

R. Neal's blog

vote

since when has the KNS asked

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 10:13am.

since when has the KNS asked if they should endorse? What's different this time around?

The difference is they're

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 10:18am.

The difference is they're asking. Apparently they're not sure it's relevant any more. Or they are chickenshit.

Translation: "We're thinking

Submitted by MDB on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 10:38am.

Translation:

"We're thinking about actually endorsing Obama, but we want to have an excuse not to piss off our rabidly right-wing readership."

the latter, I think Randy.

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 10:57am.

the latter, I think Randy.

"We're thinking about

Submitted by rikki on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 11:00am.

"We're thinking about actually endorsing Obama, but we want to have an excuse not to piss off our rabidly right-wing readership."

Yep. They follow the news closely and are too well informed to endorse McCain/Palin, so they are looking for a mulligan. If they can't endorse Presidential candidates without interviewing them, where does that leave the rest of us?

And what can learn about polarization and media bias from this McElroy floater: "Presidential endorsements contribute to the polarization in our society and tend to aggravate readers and lead them to believe our coverage is biased." It makes me wonder how McElroy would address those problems. Is silence unbiased? If so, how do you distinguish unbiased silence from total censorship?

If they can't endorse

Submitted by MDB on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 11:12am.

If they can't endorse Presidential candidates without interviewing them

KNS is a paper in a state that's pretty much a lock for McCain.

Beyond that, they're pretty much a wire service paper for anything outside East Tennessee anyway. What chance would they have of getting an interview with McCain or Obama?

Mulligan is the word that came to mind...

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 11:22am.

If so, how do you distinguish unbiased silence from total censorship?

More so than any newspaper I have ever read the News Sentinel is guilty of the sins of omission.

This raises it to a new level. The McElroy era is unprecedented. It is really a shame that there is not a scholastic study of the News Sentinel. They are breaking new ground in getting away from journalism and tending towards being an advertorial.

Is it just me, or does the News Sentinel remind you of CityView magazine?

"More so than any newspaper

Submitted by metulj on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 11:51am.

"More so than any newspaper I have ever read the News Sentinel is guilty of the sins of omission."

You can read?

"It is really a shame that there is not a scholastic study of the News Sentinel. "

What Knoxville needs now is its very own Duns Scotus.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

McElroy's argument is a

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 11:22am.

McElroy's argument is a straw man. Following that logic (that endorsements contribute to polarization), a newspaper shouldn't have an editorial page.

A newspaper should never be

Submitted by MDB on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 11:43am.

A newspaper should never be afraid to polarize people, because their business, by its very nature, as a polarizing one.

This idea that newspaper are supposed to be timid reporters of facts is a load of crap. Real journalism means kicking ass and taking names.

To make up an example, lets say that Candidate Smith made the statement, "50% of your tax dollars go to foreign aid!" The current definition of "unbiased" means just printing a statement from Smith's opponent disputing that claim.

But a real reporter would spend a few hours in the Federal budget and write a story sayig, "Smith is misinformed or lying; that number is far too high by any definition of foreign aid." A damn good reporter would try to track down the source of Smith's claim and see who's feeding him the information. That's journalism.

Now, I've often noted that the people who keep flogging the "the press should be unbiased" horse are the ones who insist Fox News is "fairandbalanced".

NO!

Submitted by Concerned Taxpayer (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 11:54am.

No it should not endorse and neither should any other newspaper. Their business is to report the news but when they endorse they are only kidding everyone when they say they are "neutral in their reporting." I would rather see a newspaper just report and stay out of the endorsement business.

So Concerned

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 12:07pm.

So Concerned Taxpayer,

should they get rid of the editorial page, if their only business is to report the news? No opinion, whatsoever?

For hundreds of years, newspapers have been in the news AND opinion business. And without informed commentary (opinion), a nation suffers.

The only thing that should

Submitted by Concerned Taxpayer (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 4:10pm.

The only thing that should be printed in that section are those retarded letters to the editor. While some are timely and helpful most are as stupid as what one will read on a blog.

wow. Ben Franklin would be

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 4:24pm.

wow. Ben Franklin would be so proud that you think letter writers are retarded.

condescend often, do you?

update: Without opinion pages, America would have been hard pressed to learn about the Federalist Papers.

"Seventy-seven of the (85) essays were published serially in The Independent Journal and The New York Packet between October 1787 and August 1788." Newspapers, by darn!

The authors of the Federalist Papers wanted to both influence the vote in favor of ratification and shape future interpretations of the Constitution. According to historian Richard B. Morris, they are an "incomparable exposition of the Constitution, a classic in political science unsurpassed in both breadth and depth by the product of any later American writer."

Let me guess.... you

Submitted by MDB on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 12:30pm.

Let me guess.... you consider Fox News the epitome of neutral reporting, right?

No, and I resent your

Submitted by Concerned Taxpayer (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 4:09pm.

No, and I resent your obnoxious and arrogant attitude about my response. I have never been comfortable with a newspaper, anywhere, doing this, and it takes away any credibility that they have in being neutral about reporting the news. Newspapers are were a person can get real news, not the television. Good grief, what is it with liberals and their fascination with Fox News. The only reason a person needs to know about them is if one worked in politics and connected the data between the viewership numbers and voter demographics. Otherwise, they are just a media enterprise, owned by a conglomerate and trying to make a buck. They are about ratings, as all of them are so turn off your television and pick up a paper why don't you? Better yet, take off your ideological glasses and see the world around you.

Otherwise, they are just a

Submitted by Andy Axel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 4:21pm.

Otherwise, [Fox News] are just a media enterprise, owned by a conglomerate and trying to make a buck.

And KNS is a media enterprise owned by Scripps and trying... to... make...

Is the point too obvious already?

____________________________

the distance between black & white is much further than i would like until now i never noticed that fascism has many disguises -d. boon, 1981

MDB nailed it

Submitted by knoxvegas99 on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 12:16pm.

"We're thinking about actually endorsing Obama, but we want to have an excuse not to piss off our rabidly right-wing readership."

Spot on.

Larry Van Guilder

I agree with Larry. Come

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 1:34pm.

I agree with Larry. Come on, KNS, if you really want to endorse Obama, go for it. Show some, um, guts.

And I voted "yes". I love laughing at the KNS endorsements that use 15 paragraphs to tell you all the things that are wrong with someone (e.g. Shurf Tim) and then end with "vote for him anyway."

c'mon Rachel. you know if

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 1:44pm.

c'mon Rachel. you know if somebody is an addict, you need to treat them gingerly. Hopefully, the KNS will embrace recovery and come out for what's best for the country instead of reverting to old habits of partisanship. Not that Hartmann, McElroy, or even Michael "Fred Fred Fred" Silence are GOP loyalists. Perish the thought.

I blogged about the KNS's radical approach to asking its readers whether to endorse over at DKos. The comments are much more interesting than those at the KNS.

My favorite comment: "Wow. You can't get much more mavericky than this. Asking people to vote on how mavericky they think you should be."

and

"Dear readers,
The newspaper business sucks right now. We are on the verge of bankruptcy. Is it OK if we just publish the comics (except Doonesbury), sports, and the obituaries?

Please enjoy the enclosed DVD.

Also, please answer our online poll question: Would you be less likely to vote for Obama if you found out he was a terrorist and wants to raise your taxes?

Sincerely,

The Knoxville News Sentinel

Tired of crow? Or just feeling shame?

Submitted by Factchecker on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 1:20pm.

Hmmm, KNS, what's changed in the last four years? Maybe they re-read their '04 endorsement.

One major daily paper is the problem

Submitted by bill young on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 1:59pm.

I dont believe a newspaper is obligated to be non biased.

In fact the Constitution protects a newspaper's right to be biased.

Thats why the 1st amendment says:

"The congress shall make no law..abridging the freedom of the press."

So Hell yes a newspaper should slant the news..make their opinion known..on the front page as well as the opionion page.

From Black Wednesday till Super Tuesday the News-Sentinal did just that.Went old school & exercised the freedom of the press.The paper took an activist position.

Every day the News-Sentinal pounded anybody that had anything to do with the appointments.The paper took the whole county commission to court on sunshine law violations.

But that was the exception in the new world of the daily newspaper biz.

Today we only have one daily paper & there is no room for opinion if you want to sell papers to everybody.And you want to sell papers to everybody to get readership up because thats what the advertisers demand.

The daily newspaper is no longer owned or run by folks from around here.They are detached from what makes Knoxville tick & their job is to offend as few people as they can to as I said keep advertisers happy.

Plus the folks who are buying colume inches are not from around here either.They dont want hear that readership is down or folks are pissed at the paper because the paper took a position on a hot local issue.

It is what it is & no need for me rant about it.

But I do believe thats why blogs like Knoxviews & weeklys like the Metro Pulse & the Shopper thrive.They give real opinions & tell you what they think about whats going down.

The News Sentinal is doing what they gotta do in the 21st century.

But I sure do miss the old days when two daily newspapers had an opinion & advocated with hard hitting stories on the front page as well as the opinion page.

Word...

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 2:31pm.

But I sure do miss the old days when two daily newspapers had an opinion & advocated with hard hitting stories on the front page as well as the opinion page.

When the Sentinel became the only daily paper was the moment with this community started tilting towards a local oligarchy.

It sucks. But it is what it is. The Sentinel is owned/pawned. Next stop Pottersville? Or some company town name. Maybe Haslamville? Maybe HaslamCo? 12 WhiteGuysville? Or maybe NorthshoreTwelveville?

While everyone was sleeping this went from a great place to live to just a place on the map.

We are living in a disutopian reality. And we deserve what we get.

We are living in a

Submitted by metulj on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 4:27pm.

We are living in a disutopian [sic] reality.

Now, is this where I get to accuse you of sloughing off the +10 Mantle of John Galtness? I can never keep track of what the fuck you think. Are you dystopian, utopian, poptopian, or what?

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

He's too busy smelting

Submitted by Justin on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 4:38pm.

He's too busy smelting Rearden Metal to choose his ideology.

Farragutopian.

Submitted by Andy Axel on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 4:50pm.

Farragutopian.

____________________________

the distance between black & white is much further than i would like until now i never noticed that fascism has many disguises -d. boon, 1981

John Galt?

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 5:11pm.

Now, is this where I get to accuse you of sloughing off the +10 Mantle of John Galtness?

Who is John Galt?

Read Atlas Shrugged.

Submitted by tennesseevalues... on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 6:01pm.

#9: Who is John Galt?

Read Atlas Shrugged.

..or don't. It's quite long.

The protagonist of one of

Submitted by metulj on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 6:02pm.

The protagonist of one of the most overwrought, turgid pieces of shit books ever written. I guess you don't read.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

I've managed to finish The

Submitted by MDB on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 6:12pm.

I've managed to finish The Fountainhead, two decades or so ago, but I never could get more than a few pages into Atlas Shrugged. (Its 1000+ pages... of small type.)

Too easy...

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 6:17pm.

The protagonist of one of the most overwrought, turgid pieces of shit books ever written.

You wouldn't recognize a double entendre if you tripped over it. This has gotten boring. Baiting you used to be fun.

And that's not a double

Submitted by metulj on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 7:26pm.

And that's not a double entendre, Frenchy. Like I said, it's a really bad book for disutopians.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Justin caught it...

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 10:53pm.

And that's not a double entendre, Frenchy.

It was a classic double entendre.

"It was a classic double entendre..."

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 11:53pm.

...he muttered to himself.

He would archive it with the remainder of his "body of work" (those 4000 posts in the News-Sentinel comment threads), to be reproduced on gilded pages and bound in fine leather sometime later.

But for now, to archive it. "Classics" must lie around in some deep, musty hole for eons before they can be fully appreciated.

Or perhaps a footnote is helpful...

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Sat, 2008/10/18 - 12:10am.

...to those of you who don't have a stomach for reading the N-S comment threads:

When David Keim recently entered a conversation there, threatening to ban Nine's participation, he (Nine) expressed concern that once banned, his "body of work" might also be erased from their archives.

Now, that was "classic."

Omg, that's hilarious.

Submitted by Rachel on Sat, 2008/10/18 - 11:11pm.

Omg, that's hilarious.

Comment forum ethics

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Sun, 2008/10/19 - 11:13am.

Tamara, you must not have understood the issue. The issue is that the News Sentinel was censoring commenters. Giving the death penalty and erasing the entire account is unique. I know of no place that when they ban someone they erase every single post that person made.

A few of the people the Sentinel banned needed to be locked out as they were fragrantly violating the rules. But some were simply censored. You seem disappointed I am still there. BTW, still waiting for you to back up your claim from this morning.

This would never be a problem for you as you are in lock step with the Sentinel. Protect Ragsdale and condemn Ragsdale's enemies. Support the Knox Charter Petition and condemn those opposed to it. You yourself admitted you were a participant in Jack McElroy's reader seminars.

You are reliable in your own way. In a head cheerleader sort of way.

Not exactly...

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Sat, 2008/10/18 - 1:05am.

He would archive it with the remainder of his "body of work" (those 4000 posts in the News-Sentinel comment threads)

Actually 2282 posts. But that's close. For you. Still at the Sentinel. Much to the chagrin of some.

Still, that is classic double entendre.

Well, you fit in at the KNS,

Submitted by metulj on Tue, 2008/10/21 - 7:52pm.

Well, you fit in at the KNS, which is basically a call-in show for racists and homophobes who are glaring indications that the US is a society in decline both socially and educationally. You actually are so far head and shoulders above that drooling mass that even you can police the piss poor reasoning, though I am sure you agree with every word said there.

I heard over beers recently that the NS comments pages are quickly becoming legend in the online newspaper world as exactly what happens when you have an unenforceable policy to control the behavior on a site.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Submitted by Anonymously

Submitted by Justin on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 6:23pm.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/17 - 5:11pm.

Now, is this where I get to accuse you of sloughing off the +10 Mantle of John Galtness?

Who is John Galt?

Me thinks the digit responded in jest. Cubes to digit for snark. "Who is John Galt?" was repeated throughout the book by the characters.