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Lumpy confronted mall killer
Submitted by R. Neal on Thu, 2008/10/09 - 12:40pm.
Says he was carrying a handgun but "didn't draw down" on the killer. Is it legal to be in possession of a handgun on private property posted "no weapons" regardless of whether you have a permit? Or does that not apply to elected officials? Or is he a sworn deputy or something? Sounds like he has JJ on speed dial.
(Yes, gun nuts, we know the killer didn't heed the signs, either, or the laws against murdering somebody.)
Who else feels the civilian need to carry concealed
Well, in their defense I would say people who have had credible threats or work in high risk occupations.
I have no idea what percentage those people are v. others who just want to, which is perfectly legal for good or ill, or which category Lumpy falls in.
Anyway, I am told by someone who should know that if the mall is posted it's illegal to carry a weapon in there.
But I'm pretty sure that wouldn't apply to law enforcement officers, on or off duty. Wonder what other classes of people would be exempt if any?
Submitted by happy1 (not verified) on Thu, 2008/10/09 - 1:24pm.
Thank God for Lumpy Lambert. Once again he was there (yes with a gun) and prevented other innocent people from being killed. Shame on anyone who would turn this into a gun control issue. Bottom line, he prevented an armed murderer from running amok in a mall where children are present.
I hurt for the family of the murdered man and I encourage others to pray for the family.
What exactly would you men who are voicing these opinions of Lumpy done in the same situation? Ran? Our crime rate keeps going higher because of cowards that refuse to defend their own family and community.
Lumpy is a hero!!
Woohoo!
Where's the picture of him in his cape?
What?
I can think of one man in a church recently who sacrificed his life in order to protect the lives of others. And he didn't need a concealed weapon. Like I said, little man syndrome, not a need to carry, speaking of cowards who piss their pants.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Here's the relevant state law courtesy of someone knowledgeable:
TCA 39-17-1315. Written directive and permit to carry handguns. —
(a) (1) Any law enforcement officer, police officer, bonded and sworn deputy sheriff, director, commissioner, county magistrate or retired law enforcement officer who is bonded and who, at the time of receiving the written directive, has successfully completed and, except for a law enforcement officer who has retired in good standing as certified by the chief law enforcement officer of the organization from which the officer retired, continues to successfully complete on an annual basis a firearm training program of at least eight (8) hours duration, director or full-time employee of the Tennessee emergency management agency in the performance of the director's or employee's duty, any duly authorized representative or full-time employee of the board of probation and parole who has been specifically designated by the board to execute warrants issued pursuant to § 40-28-121 or § 40-35-311 or to perform such other duties as specifically designated by the board, or any other officer or person authorized to carry handguns by this, or any other law of this state, may carry handguns at all times pursuant to a written directive by the executive supervisor of the organization to which the person is or was attached or employed, regardless of the person's regular duty hours or assignments; however, a copy of the written directive shall be retained as a portion of the records of the particular law enforcement agency that shall issue the directive. Nothing in this subdivision (a)(1) shall prevent federal officers from carrying firearms as prescribed by federal law.
(2) Any duly elected and sworn constable in any county having a population of not less than eleven thousand one hundred (11,100) nor more than eleven thousand two hundred (11,200), according to the 1970 federal census or any subsequent federal census, and being a county in which constables retain law enforcement powers and duties under the provisions of §§ 8-10-108, 40-6-210, 55-8-152, 57-5-202 and 57-9-101, are authorized to and may carry handguns at all times and may equip their vehicles with blue and red lights and sirens. The sheriff of such county shall issue a written directive or permit authorizing the constables to carry a handgun; provided, that each constable has completed the same eight-hour annual firearm training program as is required by this subsection (a).
(3) The county commission may, by a two-thirds (2/3) vote, require the constable to have in effect a liability policy or a corporate surety bond in an amount of not less than fifty thousand dollars ($50,000).
(b) (1) An individual, corporation or business entity is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by employees otherwise authorized by this subsection (b) on premises owned, operated or managed by the individual, corporation or business entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted or otherwise noticed to all affected employees.
(2) An individual, corporation, business entity or governmental entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by this subsection (b), at meetings conducted by, or on premises owned, operated, managed or under control of the individual, corporation, business entity or governmental entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted or announced.
As I posted on the KNS comment thread on this story, "Lumpy" and I were part of the same high school graduating class (Powell High, Class of 1984.)
Out of all the bright, talented people in my class (we've produced at least one doctor, at least one attorney, several engineers, several teachers)... I'm stunned that Greg Lambert is the one who made a name for himself in politics.
I can't help but think that's how the people who graduated high school with George Bush must feel.
The Code citation is not so clear. Section a(1) seems to indicate that Lumpy, as a commissioner is permitted to carry even if the property is posted as "No Guns Allowed" - another section of the code specifies the exact posting requirements. A simple "No Guns" doesn't meet the requirements.
That said, if it is posted correctly, a private citizen with a permit cannot legally carry in correctly posted properties.
And then that said, I don't think Knox Center Mall is posted so I'll cover your back side when I'm there...
Submitted by Ragsdale2010 (not verified) on Thu, 2008/10/09 - 5:42pm.
In my opinion, he no more talked to this cat after he emptied his 9mm Ruger that you did and why he comes up with these halucinations, is beyond me.
Why didn't he call 911 when he saw an armed man in a public space clearly marked no guns allowed, as a watchdog of the citizens of Knox County?
This is not an isolated incident, West Town and East Town malls are havens for criminal activity and the local media won't tell the story until they have to for fear of retribution from their advertisers.
Submitted by StaceyDiamond on Thu, 2008/10/09 - 6:29pm.
Having lived in apts by people I have felt afraid of I see the need for responsible citizens to be able to have guns, especially in their houses if they so choose. Lumpy saved his own life and probably others when he confronted the guy who tried to rob him who had just killed a truck driver. Sometimes citizens being armed works for good. I also think some background checking is good too.
Why does Lumpy turn up every time there's a crime in Knox County? Does he have radar or something?
I'm surprised he wasn't at the Unitarian Church too (ok, not really, although he did say at one Commission meeting that some of his friends were druids).
he did say at one Commission meeting that some of his friends were druids
Uuuumm.... Lumpy?
Your drinking buddies who occasionally yell out "oh, God" after missing a shot at Bambi while hunting do not count as druids.
(Disclaimer: I don't know anyone who strictly identifies herself as a druid, though I do know a few Wiccans. Its quite possible Lumpy knows a few Wiccans, Druids, Satanists, Church of All Worlders, and/or hermetic magicians. But I couldn't resist the change to get in a dig at Lumpy.)
TCA 39-17-1359(a) regarding posting of "no weapons" notice:
The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:
PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).
The question now is whether this is posted at the mall in the prescribed form.
Submitted by Joe T (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/10 - 8:26am.
without the TCA 39-17-1359(a) notice posted on all doors the mall can't do anything legal to a carry permit holder. They can however ask the permit carry to leave. for more info please visit Link...
Submitted by Joe T (not verified) on Fri, 2008/10/10 - 8:48am.
The latest story from WATE in Knoxville states Knoxville Police Department does not think he has a permit - he has a criminal record with simple assault.
Other reports have stated that the assault charge was dismissed. Apparently WATE considers that a "record."
When his mother said he had a "permit," she may have just meant that he legally purchased the gun. Some people mistakenly believe all guns are permitted or registered.
I saw something, I think at KNS, that indicated the suspect cannot be interrogated yet -- I'd presume that means he's either unconscious, or deeply sedated.
Many questions like "did he have a permit" probably won't be firmly answered until he's interrogated.
Its not hard to verify if he had a CCW-its on file with the state dept of safety/dmv. More likely his mother thought one has to have a gun permit to own one (none needed in TN).
I expect that what Lumpy did do was piss his pants.
Who else feels the civilian need to carry concealed but cowards and those with "little man syndrome"?
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Who else feels the civilian need to carry concealed
Well, in their defense I would say people who have had credible threats or work in high risk occupations.
I have no idea what percentage those people are v. others who just want to, which is perfectly legal for good or ill, or which category Lumpy falls in.
Anyway, I am told by someone who should know that if the mall is posted it's illegal to carry a weapon in there.
But I'm pretty sure that wouldn't apply to law enforcement officers, on or off duty. Wonder what other classes of people would be exempt if any?
I suspect that doesn't apply to superheroes.
And it's getting more and more difficult to get into those leotards. XXL phone booths are in short supply what with the rise of cell phone technology.
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Thank God for Lumpy Lambert. Once again he was there (yes with a gun) and prevented other innocent people from being killed. Shame on anyone who would turn this into a gun control issue. Bottom line, he prevented an armed murderer from running amok in a mall where children are present.
I hurt for the family of the murdered man and I encourage others to pray for the family.
What exactly would you men who are voicing these opinions of Lumpy done in the same situation? Ran? Our crime rate keeps going higher because of cowards that refuse to defend their own family and community.
Lumpy is a hero!!
Woohoo!
Where's the picture of him in his cape?
What?
I can think of one man in a church recently who sacrificed his life in order to protect the lives of others. And he didn't need a concealed weapon. Like I said, little man syndrome, not a need to carry, speaking of cowards who piss their pants.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Here's the relevant state law courtesy of someone knowledgeable:
TCA 39-17-1315. Written directive and permit to carry handguns. —
(a) (1) Any law enforcement officer, police officer, bonded and sworn deputy sheriff, director, commissioner, county magistrate or retired law enforcement officer who is bonded and who, at the time of receiving the written directive, has successfully completed and, except for a law enforcement officer who has retired in good standing as certified by the chief law enforcement officer of the organization from which the officer retired, continues to successfully complete on an annual basis a firearm training program of at least eight (8) hours duration, director or full-time employee of the Tennessee emergency management agency in the performance of the director's or employee's duty, any duly authorized representative or full-time employee of the board of probation and parole who has been specifically designated by the board to execute warrants issued pursuant to § 40-28-121 or § 40-35-311 or to perform such other duties as specifically designated by the board, or any other officer or person authorized to carry handguns by this, or any other law of this state, may carry handguns at all times pursuant to a written directive by the executive supervisor of the organization to which the person is or was attached or employed, regardless of the person's regular duty hours or assignments; however, a copy of the written directive shall be retained as a portion of the records of the particular law enforcement agency that shall issue the directive. Nothing in this subdivision (a)(1) shall prevent federal officers from carrying firearms as prescribed by federal law.
(2) Any duly elected and sworn constable in any county having a population of not less than eleven thousand one hundred (11,100) nor more than eleven thousand two hundred (11,200), according to the 1970 federal census or any subsequent federal census, and being a county in which constables retain law enforcement powers and duties under the provisions of §§ 8-10-108, 40-6-210, 55-8-152, 57-5-202 and 57-9-101, are authorized to and may carry handguns at all times and may equip their vehicles with blue and red lights and sirens. The sheriff of such county shall issue a written directive or permit authorizing the constables to carry a handgun; provided, that each constable has completed the same eight-hour annual firearm training program as is required by this subsection (a).
(3) The county commission may, by a two-thirds (2/3) vote, require the constable to have in effect a liability policy or a corporate surety bond in an amount of not less than fifty thousand dollars ($50,000).
(b) (1) An individual, corporation or business entity is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by employees otherwise authorized by this subsection (b) on premises owned, operated or managed by the individual, corporation or business entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted or otherwise noticed to all affected employees.
(2) An individual, corporation, business entity or governmental entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by this subsection (b), at meetings conducted by, or on premises owned, operated, managed or under control of the individual, corporation, business entity or governmental entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted or announced.
As I posted on the KNS comment thread on this story, "Lumpy" and I were part of the same high school graduating class (Powell High, Class of 1984.)
Out of all the bright, talented people in my class (we've produced at least one doctor, at least one attorney, several engineers, several teachers)... I'm stunned that Greg Lambert is the one who made a name for himself in politics.
I can't help but think that's how the people who graduated high school with George Bush must feel.
The Code citation is not so clear. Section a(1) seems to indicate that Lumpy, as a commissioner is permitted to carry even if the property is posted as "No Guns Allowed" - another section of the code specifies the exact posting requirements. A simple "No Guns" doesn't meet the requirements.
That said, if it is posted correctly, a private citizen with a permit cannot legally carry in correctly posted properties.
And then that said, I don't think Knox Center Mall is posted so I'll cover your back side when I'm there...
I feel so much safer RedDog...
In my opinion, he no more talked to this cat after he emptied his 9mm Ruger that you did and why he comes up with these halucinations, is beyond me.
Why didn't he call 911 when he saw an armed man in a public space clearly marked no guns allowed, as a watchdog of the citizens of Knox County?
This is not an isolated incident, West Town and East Town malls are havens for criminal activity and the local media won't tell the story until they have to for fear of retribution from their advertisers.
Having lived in apts by people I have felt afraid of I see the need for responsible citizens to be able to have guns, especially in their houses if they so choose. Lumpy saved his own life and probably others when he confronted the guy who tried to rob him who had just killed a truck driver. Sometimes citizens being armed works for good. I also think some background checking is good too.
Why does Lumpy turn up every time there's a crime in Knox County? Does he have radar or something?
I'm surprised he wasn't at the Unitarian Church too (ok, not really, although he did say at one Commission meeting that some of his friends were druids).
Uuuumm.... Lumpy?
Your drinking buddies who occasionally yell out "oh, God" after missing a shot at Bambi while hunting do not count as druids.
(Disclaimer: I don't know anyone who strictly identifies herself as a druid, though I do know a few Wiccans. Its quite possible Lumpy knows a few Wiccans, Druids, Satanists, Church of All Worlders, and/or hermetic magicians. But I couldn't resist the change to get in a dig at Lumpy.)
Shooter's mother says he had a handgun carry permit...
WATE:
From discussion at Michael Silence, more relevant law:
TCA 39-17-1359(a) regarding posting of "no weapons" notice:
The question now is whether this is posted at the mall in the prescribed form.
without the TCA 39-17-1359(a) notice posted on all doors the mall can't do anything legal to a carry permit holder. They can however ask the permit carry to leave. for more info please visit Link...
The latest story from WATE in Knoxville states Knoxville Police Department does not think he has a permit - he has a criminal record with simple assault.
Link...
Other reports have stated that the assault charge was dismissed. Apparently WATE considers that a "record."
When his mother said he had a "permit," she may have just meant that he legally purchased the gun. Some people mistakenly believe all guns are permitted or registered.
I saw something, I think at KNS, that indicated the suspect cannot be interrogated yet -- I'd presume that means he's either unconscious, or deeply sedated.
Many questions like "did he have a permit" probably won't be firmly answered until he's interrogated.
Its not hard to verify if he had a CCW-its on file with the state dept of safety/dmv. More likely his mother thought one has to have a gun permit to own one (none needed in TN).
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