Thu
Oct 2 2008
06:58 pm

Has anyone added up all the newspaper column inches and network/cable news minutes/hours devoted to hyping a 90 minute debate?

John McCain has turned this into a county fair sideshow. And just like at the county fair, people line up to see it. So will we. It's the best freakshow on the Midway!

Discuss...

82
like
Rachel's picture

Run up to the debate tonight

Run up to the debate tonight on CBS News:

Katie Couric - what's the worst thing Dick Cheney has done as vice-president?
Biden - shredding the Constitution
Palin - having a hunting accident

I don't know if I can stand it till this damn debate is over and I never have to listen to Sarah Palin again.

Brian A.'s picture

Is Gwen Ifill attacking

Is Gwen Ifill attacking Palin because of her book, or because she's a sexist?

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

R. Neal's picture

Good point. And Biden

Good point. And Biden shouldn't hold back because she's a woman. He should hammer her because of her policies and lack of depth.

R. Neal's picture

Olbermann just said it could

Olbermann just said it could be "the most remarkable debate in history!"

Really?

Remarkable because there is anyone in America who seriously believes Palin is qualified for the job? And that we should even be having this discussion, much less a debate?

Seriously?

Brian A.'s picture

See also: this is the most

See also: this is the most important election in American history.

How about some theme music?

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

WhitesCreek's picture

Palin: "Can I call you Joe?"

Palin: "Can I call you Joe?"

Brian A.'s picture

"Team of mavericks"

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Brian A.'s picture

WOW--question on climate

WOW--question on climate change--I don't know if I've ever heard such a rambling, incoherent answer on the national stage.

We are approaching train wreck territory.

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Bbeanster's picture

She's an empty pencil

She's an empty pencil skirt, on so many levels. Overcoached and overeager to please her handlers.
Like when she makes a point of dropping the name of our commanding general in Afghanistan, "Gen. McClelland."

The commander of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan is David McKiernan.

And the false eyelashes are just weird, doggonnit.

Brian A.'s picture

Uh, ready on day one?

Uh, ready on day one?

I listened to the debate on the radio. Were there any noteworthy visual components to the debate that may have affected viewers?

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Mello's picture

visual

I kept expecting to see the characters from MST3K at the bottom of the screen when she spoke.

Konoteworthy's picture

hmm

Not that I saw. Unless we include the fact that Palin looked like Fey playing Palin. That plastic, Miss Whereeverthefuck beauty pageant smile of hers was definitely painted on with high gloss exterior enamel.

Other than that, Biden's "Awww, your cute" smile when he looked at her was interesting. Kinda like he was looking at a puppy in the pet shop window.

elizabeth's picture

I'm not sure how Palin's

I'm not sure how Palin's flirtatious demeanor will come across to women who are undecided. Someone notes below that it was unprofessional and pure beauty pageant behavior, but the winks at the camera were completely inappropriate and made me wonder who she is to talk about women's rights - shouldn't a woman of her political stature, in a vice presidential debate, have more to rely on than resorting to standard (and stereotypical) feminine wiles? I found it offensive, and at least one man I spoke to afterward was also offended at her attempt to "seduce his vote." Folksy, no. Foxy? Hmm. I'm grossed out.

sugarfatpie's picture

Great point!

Its hard for me to separate out all the things that sicken me about her. The winking is definitely one of them.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

metulj's picture

OK. She actually started out

OK. She actually started out strong, but it was miserable after the first 35 minutes. She became incoherent. They need to tell her that "also" is an adverb, not a conjunction.

Biden: He avoiding slapping her around, which I was worried about, and he stayed on message for the 99% part. Decent job. Not a home run, but all you have to do is play small ball against Palin.

And the "Can I call you, Joe?" and the "There you go again" were shameless.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

McKona's picture

LOL

Well, she was well rehearsed. Nothing like launching into the same old, tired talking points when you can't answer a question.

"Ending war is surrender"!
"They hate our freedom"!
"Victory in Iraq"!
"cut taxes"!
"DRILL, DRILL, DRILL"!

The only difference between Palin and Bush is that she recites the lines better.

Then, she has the audacity to state that "we'll help the middle class", "we'll get health care for all Americans", "we'll change Washington".
McCain's voting record, easily accessible at Project Vote Smart, indicates exactly the opposite.
Much like the McLame-Obama debate, the depth and detail were on the Democratic side and the talking points belong, as always, to the Republicans.

Did Biden make any mistakes? Sure did. And I remembered at that point why I don't like the man all that much.
Biden said concerning Afghanistan "there are Madarasas being built where we should be building schools". Madarasa means "school" in Arabic. Not Terrorist Training Academy. Just "school". Any school.
Obama attended a "Madarasa". (as did I for that matter)

Good news? Palin was too busy reading her script to notice.

Stormare Mackee's picture

Palin & RR

Palin didn't end her final turn with the customary "God bless America"... was she trying to distance herself from the religious right?

Rachel's picture

Palin did well enough to

Palin did well enough to satisfy the conservatives. They'll all go back to worshipping her now.

I thought Biden was as good as I've ever seen him. He clearly won the debate.

And there's the rub for McCain. He can't win without independents and I don't see tonight helped in that regard.

Status quo, which means advantage remains Obama.

redmondkr's picture

Palin did well enough to

Palin did well enough to satisfy the conservatives.

Yeah, Pat Buchanan was positively orgasmic.


Visit us at

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MDB's picture

A picture I don't need

Yeah, Pat Buchanan was positively orgasmic.

Well, that mental image is going to cause me to lose sleep for the next four months or so....

gime_shltr's picture

How Right you are...

You know, just the thought that there are people out there breathing a sigh of relief that Palin didn't collapse under that pressure actually scares me.

They are out there alright. Feeling a little bit better about having to pull that Republican lever come November 4th.

One can only pray that they will be outnumbered this time around.

Bbeanster's picture

The GOP meme from here on

The GOP meme from here on out is "rearview mirror" --

They've decided that this the way to distinguish McCain from Bush. Caribou Barbie trotted it out tonight, and I'm hearing it repeated over and over again by the Republican mouthpieces.

bizgrrl's picture

Biden-Palin debate

Biden-Palin debate transcript.

"Say it ain't so, Joe"

I thought Biden was remarkably calm after she said that. IMO, lucky it was towards the end of the debate. She being snarky, antagonizing. I said out loud, she better be careful.

But the notion that somehow, because I'm a man, I don't know what it's like to raise two kids alone, I don't know what it's like to have a child you're not sure is going to -- is going to make it -- I understand.

Was I imagining things or was he about to break up a little bit?

I thought Biden did an outstanding job.

metulj's picture

My wife didn't know that

My wife didn't know that story so I told it to her. And I think he did choke up a bit and was mad as hell that she went there.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

sugarfatpie's picture

Yes he was about to break up

And it wasn't scripted either, unlike Palin's obvious attempts to tug at our heart strings.

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

KC's picture

And I think he did choke up

And I think he did choke up a bit and was mad as hell that she went there.

Yeah, and she should be called on it for saying Biden "was waving the white flag" (code words for traitor), and saying "with a son in the National Guard" (implying again that he's somehow a traitor). It's being used like "commie" was in the fifties.

Sad thing is MSM won't call her on it, because they love the pretty people.

R. Neal's picture

That whole thing was

That whole thing was creepy.

Did you notice how she would slip into some kind of trance-like demeanor when she recited the rote answers she was told to give on various topics? I wonder if they used hypnotism, or if that's just her recall mechanism. Whatever it was, that was the main thing I took away.

Her stock answer when she didn't know the answer was that she and McCain would Keep America Free. I don't even know what that means.

I also noticed how when Biden was talking she would be shuffling around her note cards and grinning like a Junior High Debater thinking "oh, oh, I remember this one, where's my card for it?"

The new "rear view mirror" defense against "just like Bush" was pretty effective, and that's what they will be going with the rest of the way, as Betty noted.

At any rate, she exceeded expectations and gave a better performance than George Bush could have. They're probably wishing they could flip the ticket at this point. She also proved that any random person with moderate speaking skills can be Vice President or President with only four short weeks of training at the GOP Talking Point Academy. She also told lie after lie, but thankfully Biden was able to call her on a few of them.

The bottom line is that the 26% dead-enders and fundies and other low-information yahoos who haven't been paying attention were shocked and awed by how awesomely awesome and also hot she was and also are wondering why all these liberal medias are saying she's not qualified also which proves they are liars just like Obama also.

sugarfatpie's picture

Biden wins 51-36% (CNN) 46-21 (CBS)

Like I said, pay attention to the people, not the pundits

The CBS poll is pretty stunning
(link...)

Although Palin made some gains on the question of whether she could serve as president if needed, she rose just 9 points on that measure. Now 44 percent say the Alaska governor could be an effective president. Ninety-one percent said Biden could be effective as president, up from 66 percent before the debate.

I'll take a 25% bump over a 9% bump any day.

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

R. Neal's picture

Give Rush and Hannity and

Give Rush and Hannity and Boortz a day or two to work on it and all will be well in the garden.

Nobody's picture

A number of polls and

A number of polls and discussion groups were shown last night and this morning in various newspapers. The story here is how well they both did and how Palin is who the Dem's have to address, NOT McCain.

sugarfatpie's picture

Links please?

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

R. Neal's picture

Also, Biden did a great job

Also, Biden did a great job as expected, so it's not news. He gave thoughtful, direct answers that showed his depth of experience and grasp of the issues. He also showed remarkable restraint a couple of times.

R. Neal's picture

RNC Chairman Mike Duncan

RNC Chairman Mike Duncan statement:

"Gov. Sarah Palin showed Americans tonight she has the leadership, drive, and passion for reform to move our country forward alongside John McCain. Going up against Joe Biden, one of the Senate's most experienced debaters, Palin clearly demonstrated she has what it takes to be our country's next vice president. She brought to light Barack Obama's tax-raising and surge-opposing record, putting Biden on defense on nearly every issue brought forth tonight. America's confidence in Gov. Palin is growing ever stronger; she clearly is an advocate for the hardworking families that comprise our great country. The true spirit of change lies in the McCain-Palin ticket and it rang powerfully tonight."

Nobody's picture

Biden-Palin ticket

This was a great debate. Both candidates did well and showed why they should be the top pick on their respective tickets. Palin more than handled herself and did a great job disarming Biden and in turn Biden showed that he really can be a true statesman. They were both willing to say what they wanted to and ignore the Moderator-who had no business there anyhow-and talked directly at each other and at the American public. Granted that Palin went crazy with "maverick" but so did Biden in incessantly referring to McCain and of course, Bush.

I was left thinking why and what in the world were the voters in the Democratic Party thinking in nominating Obama since Biden is a much better candidate. Add in the same for the GOP voters about McCain and we are left with two minor league debates to come because the best one was last night. In fact, why not send Obama and McCain to the corner and let the Number Two's talk up until November 4? That is my vote. Better yet, even with some 3rd party debates to come and some offerings there too I vote for a Biden/Palin ticket. I don't care for most of Biden's politics but ya gotta like the man and Palin showed, hands down, that this election is about her and Obama. No question of the woman's ability to connect with voters. Maybe they will junk their top picks and run their ticket.

sugarfatpie's picture

If you go by the polls Biden would eat Palin for breakfast

But Obama's eating McCain for breakfast anyways.

But serriously. You have got to be kidding about Palin on the top of the ticket right?

You wouldn't want to do that to the GOP would you?

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

Nobody's picture

Yes, those are the same

Yes, those are the same polls that bragged a year ago about how Hillary was a certain pick to be the next President. What matters are registered voters who will actually vote, not another thing matters in an election. The fact is that most people who watch a debate are not interested in "fact checking" or whether or not a particular name was correctly used but in whether or not the candidates connect with them and how they handle themselves. For every poll that some Obama lover throws out another one can be put up to show how someone loved Palin.

When it comes to picking a President, it is all about emotions, not some "scientific survey" wherein some political know-it-all tells everyone how to vote. The Democratic voters have picked Obama, a candidate no more qualified than Palin, and did so because of his race and how that voting for a black man somehow purges America of racism. The GOP voters did God knows what in their selection of McCain and I say that because according to the "polls" the economy is "issue one." Well, what about Romney? There was a candidate with more business experience than every last candidate from both major parties and the 3rd party ones too. Voters may say it is about the economy but what it is always about is who is close to their heart. Palin strikes a chord with women voters and with the single most important voting block, white males. A candidate will not win without capturing the white male because that is were the numbers are and Palin is connecting with those voters.

This is NOT about the GOP, how lame. This is about picking a candidate for President who is not some hack from DC. Palin is a candidate who fits that profile and Biden showed that while one may not like his politics, ya gotta like the man. They both did a great job of bipartisanship last night and that is what Americans are looking for now. The Bush haters and their love of assigning blame means something only to them as the rest of America is looking for a solution to any and all problems that we may be facing. Solutions require a forward looking position, not being a cry baby about the past.

R. Neal's picture

Solutions require a forward

Solutions require a forward looking position, not being a cry baby about the past.

Whoomp, there it is.

Bbeanster's picture

Dubya Who?

Solutions require a forward looking position, not being a cry baby about the past.
Whoomp, there it is.

In what respect, Bubba?

We gotta quit lookin' in that doggone rearview mirror, doncha know. Let's talk about that awesome SURRRRGE and quit waving the dadjim white flag of surrender!

bizgrrl's picture

Orlando Sentinel VP Debate

Orlando Sentinel VP Debate Poll, Biden winning:

Who won last night's debate?
Joe Biden (2679 responses) 60.9%
Sarah Palin (1495 responses) 34.0%
It was a tie (223 responses) 5.1%
4397 total responses (Results not scientific)

Knox New Sentinel VP Debate Poll, Palin winning:
Who won the VP debate?
Joe Biden (120 votes) 34%
Sarah Palin (204 votes) 58%
Neither (16 votes) 4%
Not Sure (6 votes) 1%
346 total votes

Nearly exact opposites. We're so blue.

R. Neal's picture

Fact

Fact checking:

(link...)

Sounds like both had misstatements, but Biden's were more like spin and Palin's were more like egregious outright lies.

My favorite:

Palin: "That's budget neutral. That doesn't cost the government anything as opposed to Barack Obama's plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program and unless you're pleased with the way the federal government has been running anything lately, I don't think that it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the feds."

A) McCain's plan is not revenue neutral (and some estimates are that 25 million people will lose coverage and overall spending will actually increase), and B) Obama nor any other Democrat is proposing a "universal government run program" or "health care being taken over by the feds." It's two lies in one!

R. Neal's picture

From one of Palin's biggest

From one of Palin's biggest fans, Kathleen Parker:

I had the uneasy feeling throughout that I was witnessing a data dump from a very appealing droid. Even the winks and jaw juts seemed slightly programmed. And the question remains: Is she ready to be president should the need arise?

purplemoma's picture

Debate?

Palin did a satisfactory job. However, she was will rehearsed that is obvious the chitty chat and winking was unprofessional ... I can't see she won any points here. She was pageantry- Miss Cogeniality. No doubt smart but a heart-beat away no go. Sorry I like her drive but she needs more seasoning. I've voted since I was 18 years old now 59, always Republican..for the first time I just don't line the "team" as hard as I try.

Biden was respectful and very knowledgeable. Serious, smailing at appropriate times but to the point. In the course of many years in service there is growth, change and mistakes made. I think he anwsered well, when asked if there was regrets. He admitted yes can't remember word for word. Palin said she had none? Of course 2 years as a Governor she may not have made errors in judgement.

I feel little less on the fence. I can't see her as President..sorry I can't as hard as I try. Biden would be better. Let's see how the next debates go...and then I can be sure who is the "team" I'll cast my vote.

sugarfatpie's picture

right on!

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

elizabeth's picture

a couple of the more

a couple of the more interesting points of the night have me wondering how the mccain campaign will deal with palin's statements:
1. essentially agreeing with biden that civil liberties for same sex couples are desirable, although marriage rights are out of the question.
and
2. her claim that a two-state solution with israel and palestine is preferable, a stance mccain has been reluctant to clarify, as far as i can tell.

Rachel's picture

I rewatched a portion of the

I rewatched a portion of the debate late last night and noticed something interesting. Before she came out with "white flag of surrender" she stood there for a long time like she was thinking what to say. I thought she was going to blow the question. But she was really deciding if it was time to go with the big insult.

It didn't work. I was watching the CNN dials. Undecided voters didn't like it AT ALL.

R. Neal's picture

DNC Fact Checks the

DNC Fact Checks the Debate:

(link...)

New York Times: Palin Health Care Claim "Inaccurate On Several Levels." "Ms. Palin castigated Mr. Obama's health care plan as one that would be mandate a 'universal government-run' system in which health care is 'taken over' by the federal government. This is inaccurate on several levels. Mr. Obama's proposal includes an option for people to choose a new public plan with benefits similar to what members of Congress and other federal employees currently have. It also includes an expansion of Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program, but it is not at all exclusively government-run. Mr. Obama's plan also only mandates that children, not adults, have coverage. [New York Times, 10/2/08: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/check-point-the-vice-presidential-debate/]

FactCheck.org: Palin Health Care Claim "False." "Palin said that Obama's plan would be 'government run' and would mandate health care. The first claim is false, as we've said before. Obama's plan would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care, but would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. The second claim leaves out important information. Obama's plan would mandate health coverage for children, but not for adults." [FactCheck.org, 10/2/08: http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/10/02/socialized-medicine/]

Politifact.com: Obama's Plan Does Not Call For Government-Run Health Care. "At the vice presidential debate in St. Louis, Mo., Sarah Palin defended John McCain's health care plan and criticized Barack Obama's. Obama has a plan 'to mandate health care coverage and have a universal government run program,' Palin said. 'And unless you're pleased with the way the federal government has been running anything lately, I don't think that it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the feds.' Problem is, Obama's plan keeps the free-market health care system intact, particularly employer-based insurance. It is not a goverment-run program and is very different from the health care systems run by the government in some European countries ... So Palin is mostly wrong about Obama's plan having a mandate; it only has one for children. He would like it to be universal at some point. She also emphasized that Obama proposes government-run health care, a statement that is completely inaccurate." [POLITIFACT.com, 10/2/08: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/765/]

Washington Post Fact Checker: Palin Claim That Biden Supported McCain Policies "Flatly False." "Sarah Palin just asserted that Sen. Joseph Biden backed John McCain's military policies until this presidential race. That is flatly false. Biden was an outspoken opponent of President Bush's troop increases in Iraq as soon as Bush announced them after the 2006 elections. As Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, he led the most heated hearings before the troops were actually deployed." [Washington Post Fact Checker Blog, 10/02/08: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/]

FactCheck.org: Palin Repeats "Old Canard" About Energy Bill. "Palin threw out an old canard when she criticized Obama for voting for the 2005 Energy bill, saying, 'that's what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks.' It's a false attack Clinton used against Obama in the primary and McCain himself has hurled. It's true that the bill gave some tax breaks to oil companies, but it also took away others. And according to the Congressional Research Service, the bill created a slight net increase in taxes for the oil industry." [FactCheck.org, 10/2/08: http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/10/02/2005-energy-bill-deja-vu/]

AP: Despite Claiming to Have "Taken On" the Oil Industry, Palin on Same Side As American Petroleum Institute, Big Oil on Key Issues. "PALIN: Claimed she has taken on the oil industry as Alaska governor. THE FACTS: Palin pushed to impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies and distributed the proceeds to the state's citizens to offset rising energy costs. However, she has also sided with the industry on a number of issues. She sued the Interior Department over its designation of polar bears as an endangered species. That puts her on the same side as the American Petroleum Institute, the oil industry's chief trade association. She also supports the industry's desire to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge -- a position at odds with McCain." [AP, 10/02/08: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEBATE_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AZTUS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT]

AP: Palin Exaggerates Pipeline Claim. "PALIN: Said Alaska is 'building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets.' THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, 'It's not a done deal.'" [AP, 10/02/08: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEBATE_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AZTUS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT]

Washington Post Fact Checker: Palin Overstates Impact of Increased Oil Production. "Gov. Palin suggested that the nearly $700 billion the U.S. spends a year on imported oil could be replaced by domestic sources. CNNMoney.com took estimates from various government agencies to conclude that crude oil production could be increased at most between 1 and 3 million barrels per day, on top of the 5 million barrels a year already produced domestically. The United States currently consumes about 20 million barrels annually, so an expansion of domestic drilling would make barely a dent in that amount unless consumption also is reduced." [Washington Post Fact Checker Blog, 10/02/08: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/]

ABC News: Palin "Got Her Facts Wrong" on Homeowner Protections. "Sarah Palin got her facts wrong in Thursday's debate with Joe Biden when discussing where John McCain stands on new protections for homeowners facing foreclosures. The Alaska governor incorrectly made it sound like McCain supports giving bankruptcy judges the power to rewrite mortgage payment terms on first homes. He doesn't." [ABC News, 10/03/08: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-misstates.html]

Washington Post Fact Checker: Palin Falsely Says Troops are Now at Pre-Surge Levels. "Gov. Sarah Palin was erroneous when she claimed U.S. troop levels in Iraq are now at 'pre-surge' levels. When President Bush announced last month that he would withdraw an additional 8,000 U.S. troops over the coming months, he committed to leaving at least 138,000 troops in the country at the end of his presidency, 3,000 more than there were before the troop increases known now as 'the surge.'" [Washington Post Fact Checker Blog, 10/02/08: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/]

CNN: Palin Surge Claim "False." "During the vice-presidential debate in St. Louis on Thursday, Oct. 2, Republican nominee Gov. Sarah Palin criticized Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama's opposition to the military 'surge' in Iraq and said, 'The surge worked. Barack Obama still can't admit the surge works.' ... The Verdict: False. Obama has said the surge 'succeeded beyond our wildest dreams' from a military perspective." [CNN Political Ticker, 10/2/08: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/02/fact-check-is-it-true-obama-still-cant-admit-the-surge-works/]

FactCheck.org: Obama Did Not Vote Against Troop Funding. "Palin repeated the claim that Obama 'voted against funding our troops.' The claim refers to a single 2007 vote against a war funding bill. Obama voted for a version of the bill that included language calling for withdrawing troops from Iraq. President Bush vetoed it. (McCain supported that veto, but didn't call it 'vetoing support for our troops.') What Obama voted against was the same bill without withdrawal language. And he had voted yes on at least 10 other war funding bills prior to that single 2007 no vote." [FactCheck.org, 10/2/08: http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/10/02/obama-voted-against-troop-funding/]

AP: Palin Claim About Troop Levels in Iraq "Not Correct." "PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007. THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began. PALIN: 'Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell.' THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters -- McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control." [AP, 10/02/08: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEBATE_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AZTUS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT]

Washington Post Fact Checker: Palin Tax Hike Claims "Untrue." "Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin signaled early she would go after Barack Obama all night on the charge that he had voted 94 times to either raise taxes or fight against tax cuts. Fact check.org, a non-partisan watchdog, has analyzed the charge. Of the 94, 23 of those votes were indeed votes against proposed tax cuts. Eleven of them were increases on families earning over $1 million to help fund programs such as Head Start and school nutrition. And 53 were on non-binding budget resolutions that foresaw allowing tax cuts to expire as scheduled. Such out-year projections are meaningless, since non-binding budgets are passed each year. Factcheck.org ruled the claim misleading. On another point, Palin said a tax hike that hits earners over $250,000 would hit 'millions of small businesses.' That is untrue. The vast majority of small businesses barely break even and do not pay the top tax brackets. To get that figure, Republicans count affluent taxpayers who claim some income from some small business income as 'small businessmen.'" [Washington Post Fact Checker Blog, 10/02/08: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/]

Washington Post Fact Checker: Palin Repeats False Tax Hike for Families Making $42,000 Claim. "Sarah Palin repeated John McCain's claim that Barack Obama voted to increase taxes for every American earning more than $42,000 a year. This is a considerable stretch. Obama voted for a non-binding budget resolution that laid down general budgetary guidelines based on the assumption that the Bush tax cuts will expire, as scheduled, in 2011. The budget resolution did not represent a vote to raise taxes. Obama has said that he is in favor of continuing the Bush tax cuts for all but the wealthiest Americans." [Washington Post Fact Checker Blog, 10/02/08: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/]

FactCheck.org: Palin Got Troop Levels "Wrong." "Palin got her numbers wrong on troop levels when she said that troops were now down to 'pre-surge' levels. The surge was announced in January 2007, at which point there were 132,000 troops in Iraq according to the Brookings Institute Iraq Index. As of September 2008, that number was 146,000. President Bush recently announced that another 8,000 would be coming home by February of next year. But that would still be 6,000 more than when the surge began." [FactCheck.org, 10/2/08: http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/10/02/troop-levels-off/]

FactCheck.org: Palin Repeats "Several False Claims" on Taxes. "Palin repeated several false claims about Obama's tax policies. Obama did not in fact vote to increase taxes on "families" making as little as $42,000 per year. What Obama actually voted for was a budget resolution that called for returning the 25 percent tax bracket to its pre-Bush tax cut level of 28 percent. That could have affected an individual with no children making as little as $42,000. But a couple would have had to earn $83,000 to be affected and a family of four at least $90,000. Palin also repeated the exaggeration that Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes. That number includes seven votes that would have lowered some taxes, 23 that were against tax cuts, and 17 that came on just seven different bills. And finally, it's false that Biden and Obama voted for 'the largest tax increase in history.' Palin is referring here to the Democrats' 2008 budget proposal, which would indeed have resulted in about $217 billion in higher taxes over two years. That's a significant increase. But measured as a percentage of GDP, the yardstick that most economists prefer, the 2008 budget proposal would have been the third-largest since 1968, and it's not even in the top 10 since 1940." [FactCheck.org, 10/2/08: http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/10/02/tax-distortions/]

New York Times: Palin's Small Business Tax Hike Claim Overstated. Ms. Palin said "millions of small businesses" would pay higher taxes under Mr. Obama's tax plan, pointing to the increases for "those making $250,000 a year or more." Mr. Obama's plan would affect couples making more than $250,000 or singles making more than $200,000. Many small-business owners actually pay taxes as individuals, not as corporations. But Factcheck.org cited a projection by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center that 663,608 taxpayers with business income would fall into the top two tax brackets in 2009 and, therefore, be affected by the Obama tax plan. Not all of these, however, would be properly considered "small business owners." Some are simply those who get income in from real-estate partnerships or other investment arrangements. In other words, the actual number of small businessmen who would be affected by Obama tax plan is likely even smaller than that number, not "millions." [New York Times, 10/2/08: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/check-point-the-vice-presidential-debate/]

New York Times: Palin Increased Wasilla Sales Tax. "Governor Palin said she reduced taxes when she was mayor of Wasilla, from 1996 to 2002. The city did eliminate property taxes, but she also pushed through a half-cent sales tax increase to pay for a $15 million sports complex. That increase followed a 2-cent sales tax initiated by her predecessor that helped the city expand its police force and pay for other new services. Ms. Palin also said she eliminated a business inventory tax. She did, and that move is credited with bringing many large chain stores to Wasilla." [New York Times, 10/2/08: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/check-point-the-vice-presidential-debate/]

New York Times: On Taxes, Palin "Made Claims About Senator Obama's Policies That Are Not Correct." "In addressing the issues of taxes, Governor Palin has made claims about Senator Obama’s policies that are not correct. She revived, for example, an accusation that he and Mr. Biden voted 'for the largest tax increases in U.S. history' and also charged that he would raise taxes 'for those families making only $42,000 a year.' Mr. Obama voted twice this year in favor of a budget resolution that would have allowed the tax cuts that President Bush pushed through Congress in 2001 and 2003 to expire at the end of 2010, as the original law mandated. But that, by the definition of the Congressional Budget Office and other tax experts, does not constitute a tax increase. The resolution, if not accompanied by other tax changes, envisages an increase in taxes for an individual earning $42,000 a year who has no dependents and owns no real estate. But it would not apply to a family. Indeed, estimates are that a family of four making as much as $90,000 would not see a tax increase." [New York Times, 10/2/08: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/check-point-the-vice-presidential-debate/]

AP: Palin Repeats "Dubious Count" of Tax Votes. "PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama: '94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction.' THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year." [AP, 10/02/08: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEBATE_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AZTUS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT]

New York Times: Palin's Claim About McCain on Fannie and Freddie Not Accurate. "Gov. Sarah Palin boasted that Mr. McCain 'sounded that warning bell' about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, echoing some of Mr. McCain's recent comments in which he portrayed himself as being on the vanguard in warning about the impending financial crisis. Ms. Palin was referring to Mr. McCain's decision in 2006 to sign on as a co-sponsor of a Senate bill that would have overhauled regulations governing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. But the legislation was introduced more than 16 months earlier and the debate over the issue had been going on for some time. He also only added his name after an oversight agency issued a lengthy report condemning practices at Fannie Mae." [New York Times, 10/2/08: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/check-point-the-vice-presidential-debate/]

sugarfatpie's picture

Dayum!

My head is spinning with how wrong she was.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

Rachel's picture

Doesn't matter. She

Doesn't matter. She SPARKLED.

R. Neal's picture

Neilsen ratings for the

Neilsen ratings for the Biden-Palin debate:

• 69.9 million people watched the debate, tying it for second place among all Presidential and Vice Presidential debates. (The second Bush/Clinton/Perot debate of 1992 also have 69.9 million. The all-time debate leader is the Carter/Reagan debate of 1980.)

• This is 17.5 million viewers more than the McCain/Obama debate last Friday.

• More women (35.7 million) watched the debate than men (30.4 million)

• Compared to the McCain/Obama debate, viewing was up among all ethnic groups, including African American, Hispanic and White.

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