Submitted by bizgrrl on Sun, 2008/09/14 - 8:30am

... a federal survey released in May confirmed the dearth of math and science teachers, chiefly due to retirement by baby boomers.

Once again, it's all the baby boomers fault. Why were baby boomers willing to teach math and science but younger college graduates are not? There is something to be said for job security, but come on some of the early boomers are ready to retire.

``We interviewed 180 applicants in five days'' in Manila, Sisk [Baldwin County, AL, teacher recruiter] said. In the U.S., he did not meet that many candidates on visits to 20 or 30 colleges.

Why is it so many people in this country are complaining good jobs can't be found and there is an apparent demand for teachers with a starting salary of $36,144? Isn't that a pretty darn good starting salary?

H/T TalkLeft

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R. Neal's picture

Why were baby boomers

Why were baby boomers willing to teach math and science but younger college graduates are not?

Because you learn math and science by creating video games, not playing them.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Two forces creating shortages, I guess...

Hmmm. I had imagined that the shortage of people to teach math and science related more to the trend in public education to require students to take a greater number of math and science classes, and that it was less related to a dwindling number of qualified job applicants.

I had been thinking in terms of the KCS grad requirement of one year of general arithmetic (!) in my era, versus the current requirement of four years of math, to include at least Algebra I, effective for this year's freshmen. It's a trend mirrored nationally, of course.

Similarly, the KCS grad requirement for one year of general science (not necessarily a lab science) has been replaced by this more specific requirement for one year of biology. Ditto as to national trend.

I suppose we have two forces impacting this shortage, then: That fewer math and science teachers are emerging from our colleges, and that this is happening even as the grad requirements of K-12 public education are requiring more teachers to deliver the greater number of math and science courses required for students' graduation.

(My thoughts are with this new generation of math students, destined to struggle through convoluted lectures in statistics--or "sadistics," as we called the class in my era--under an Indian adjunct prof with a very thick accent. Been there, done that...)

metulj's picture

Can I take a crack at the generational blame game?

The parents of the baby boomers who _________ to pay ___________ taxes thereby _________ down teachers' ___________, because they are no longer ____________ in educating kids and ____________ little about the long term after they ____________ from great _____________ jobs.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

metulj's picture

Or better

We should blame recent grads who see teaching as _____ work for people who _______ ________ anything else, or think that education careers are for ________________, and since you can't get ______________ being a teacher is must be ______________ to even consider it as a career.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Tamara Shepherd's picture

That, too

I was kinda avoiding any comment on those cultural forces exacerbating the problem, Metulj, but yeah--I can fill in those blanks pretty easily!

MDB's picture

Salary is all relative

Why is it so many people in this country are complaining good jobs can't be found and there is an apparent demand for teachers with a starting salary of $36,144?

Are you being sarcastic?

It depends on where you live. My partner lives in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC, makes slightly under $36K, and qualifies for subsidized housing (though to be fair, he is right under the eligibility line. And he's actually no longer in subsidized housing.)

bizgrrl's picture

No, I am not being

No, I am not being sarcastic.

Yes, it definitely depend on where you live. It would be hard to live on $36,144 in the Virginia suburbs of DC, NYC, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, and other places. This is a very large country and I would suggest that many people in probably 75% of this large country would be glad to make $36,144.

R. Neal's picture

I believe that's more than a

I believe that's more than a first year law enforcement officer makes around here.

gonzone's picture

"teachers with a starting

"teachers with a starting salary of $36,144? Isn't that a pretty darn good starting salary?"

No.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

RayCapps's picture

Uh, no...

Why is it so many people in this country are complaining good jobs can't be found and there is an apparent demand for teachers with a starting salary of $36,144? Isn't that a pretty darn good starting salary?

If you are able to obtain a bachelor's or post bachelor's degree in Math or Science (and weren't tempted away towards engineering), you're going to have loads of opportunities in private sector R&D, pharmaceuticals, statistical process control, or any number of other fields that go begging and start out with higher salaries - oh, and they're raises and career paths promise far, far better long term financial gain as well. When the public sector is competing with the private sector for the same talent pool, the public sector loses.

For what it's worth, a recently graduated registered nurse (arguably an academically less demanding degree) would laugh at at a starting salary of $36K by a hospital, and they're in even shorter supply than teachers.

There are lots of good paying jobs that go begging in this country. Unfortunately, those jobs do require an education/skill set that aren't to be found in our pool of long term unemployed.

bizgrrl's picture

Yes, it is statistically

Yes, it is statistically known that registered nurses make more than secondary school teachers.

you're going to have loads of opportunities in private sector R&D, pharmaceuticals, statistical process control, or any number of other fields that go begging and start out with higher salaries

I don't see it but I haven't looked for a job in many, many years. I do try to keep track of the employment market in a few areas in the Southeast. I still don't see employers begging for new hires straight out of college and paying them much higher wages.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Secondary School Teachers:
Mean annual wage = $52,450
Ten percent of those earn $32,920 or less. Starting salaries maybe?

Register Nurses:
Mean annual wage = $62,480

The largest areas of employment in the US are:

  • Office and Administrative Support Occupations - 23.3 million (Mean annual wage = $31,200)
  • Sales and Related Occupations - 14.3 million (Mean annual wage = $35,240)
  • Food Preparation and Serving Related Occupations - 11.3 million (Mean annual wage = $19,440)
  • Production Occupations - 10.2 million (Mean annual wage = $31,310)
  • Transportation and Material Moving Occupations - 9.6 million (Mean annual wage = $30,680)
  • Education, Training, and Library Occupations - 8.3 million (Mean annual wage = $46,610)
RayCapps's picture

Depends on where you look...

I still don't see employers begging for new hires straight out of college and paying them much higher wages.

You still have a higher pecentage of college grads coming out with "generic" degrees like Business Administration or even sticking around a bit longer for the MBA. A business administration degree is fast becoming about as useful from an employment standpoint as a degree in French Literature. You still have a fairly large number of college grads coming out with degrees in Sociology, Psychology, or similar. The prospects for high pay there aren't too hot, either.

However, if you take a look in our own ET backyard at our college grads coming out with a degree in Supply Chain Management or Logistics, you'll start to see a different story develop. Project Management is another field with pretty good employment prospects. Graduates with those "really hard" degrees like math, science, engineering, and such are still much in demand and have been for decades now. Increasingly, it's looking like employers want to bring in new folks to perform a very specific type of job right away (immediate return on investment).

Most companies don't operate anymore under a rigidly hierarchical structure below the highest executive levels. The number of "supervisor" positions have, consequently, been slashed in just about any type of business you can think of. That's bad for BA grads. I guess you could blame it on Peter F. Drucker if you want.

metulj's picture

Um, you'll find now that

Um, you'll find now that folks with degree in French Literature get jobs pretty damn quick because unlike BusAdmin majors, they tend to be able to read and write. I once did a job search for a local trucking company for an entry level management position. I got about 100 apps from UT kids in BusAdmin (job paid $40000 in 1996 -- good job). I also got some apps from folks with work experience and a few shot in the dark types. I chose the folks with work experience and the school kids who had higher GPAs (if they bother to list this metric at all). I winnowed it down with a required writing sample and a first interview. It came down to a guy with work experience only and a woman just out of Maryville College with an English degree. We hired them both and they worked out well. I think shes a logistics manager for Amazon now. Yeah, its an anecdote, but the old worthless as paper slight against liberal arts degrees doesnt hold up against the crap being poured into the heads of your average BA in business management.

Note: not one of those kids called and asked what made their application get kicked out the pool. This is an essential job seeking skill and you would be amazed how much good feedback you can get.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

MDB's picture

Note: not one of those kids

Note: not one of those kids called and asked what made their application get kicked out the pool. This is an essential job seeking skill and you would be amazed how much good feedback you can get.

Seriously? I'd think it would be presumptuous, if not actually rude, to call an interviewer or recruiter and say, "so, why didn't you hire me?"

Heck, I'd suspect an employer would be opening himself up to legal liability if he said anything beyond, "you don't fit our needs at this time.")

(As a note, its only been in the past week that I was the interviewer rather than the interviewee for the first time.)

metulj's picture

What could it hurt? You

What could it hurt? You didn't get the job. You might as well find out why you application is worse than someone else's application. It would be presumptuous to call the day after an interview and ask when your first day is going to be.

When you apply for a grant in the academic world, you get all kinds of feedback whether you got the grant or not. Follow the advice of the reviewers and you will get those grants in the future. I know.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

talidapali's picture

With the teacher bashing going on daily...

in the "Mallard Filmore" comic strip on the editorial page of the KNS why would anyone want to be a teacher? Unappreciated, underpaid, and now the target of right-wing rhetoric that is the same kind of invective that inspired a mentally ill man to shoot up a church? Hell no...teaching is an unattractive career path for people that invest the time and money in studying the sciences and math. They'll make more money and have better benefits working in the high tech industries and in research & development.

_________________________________________________
"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali

MDB's picture

Why does anyone even bother

Why does anyone even bother with Mallard Fillmore anymore?

Basically, the entire joke, if you can call it that, boils down to "ha ha liberals are stupid. ha ha, look at the stupid liberals." Yawn.

Now, if you want a reasonably funny conservative comic strip, I recommend Prickly City. It is conservative, but not as doctrinaire as Mallard Fillmore, and does manage to be funny, even looking at it from a liberal perspective, at times. I'll admit some of the strips on the Terry Schiavo matter gave me a few moral twinges.

And its even included strips that are pretty clearly homages to the great liberal cartoonist Jules Feiffer.

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