State Party chairman Gray Sasser does not understand the meaning of the word "democracy." (Hint: the root isn't "Democrat." Party doesn't even enter into the equation.)
In case you haven't heard, majority does not rule in Tennessee:
The Tennessee Democratic Party Executive Committee has voted to declare state Sen. Rosalind Kurita’s thin primary victory invalid.The panel voted 33-11 on Saturday to declare Kurita’s 19-vote victory “incurably uncertain” after her opponent, Clarksville attorney Tim Barnes, alleged heavy Republican interference in the Democratic nominating contest. (emphasis mine)
This is Bush v. Gore, part II. Political leverage was used to overturn a result that the GOB (underline: boy) network didn't like.
Someone please show me in Tennessee law or state DP by-laws where Republicans can't vote in a Democratic primary. Last time I checked, this was not a closed-primary state.
|
76
vote
|
Shortcuts
Discussing:
- Tea Party convention continues (17 replies)
- Led Zeppelin coming to Bonnaroo? (9 replies)
- Question: Why can't the Knox County Democrats come up with one viable candidate? (18 replies)
- Have you had a TVA "Energy Right" audit done on your home? (11 replies)
- Open letter to MPC commissioners regarding the Midway Road Business Park (17 replies)
- HHS calls for Anthem Blue Cross to justify rate increases (1 reply)
- Toyota announces voluntary recall for ABS software update (1 reply)
- John Murtha RIP (4 replies)
- Missing Phil Hamby (1 reply)
- 8th District School Board Vacancy (6 replies)
- Dueling KNS headlines (2 replies)
- Tort Reform Facts (1 reply)
Upcoming events:
- Feb 13 2010 - 11:00am (3 days 22 hours from now)
- Feb 14 2010 - 2:00pm (5 days 1 hour from now)
- Feb 14 2010 - 8:00pm (5 days 7 hours from now)
- Feb 19 2010 - 8:00pm (1 week 3 days from now)
- Mar 2 2010 - 7:30pm (3 weeks 6 hours from now)
- Mar 24 2010 - 8:00pm (6 weeks 1 day from now)
User login
Navigation
Blog-O-Rama
- REGULAR MEETING - KINGSTON CITY COUNCIL Feb 9, 2010 – 7:00 P.M. (RoaneViews)
- Justifying Rate Increases (Speak to Power)
- Memphis Doctors Make Hard Choices In Haiti (Speak to Power)
- Propping up TennCare (Speak to Power)
- Very Sneaky:Two Voter Suppression Bills in One (Liberadio(!))
- The Zippin’ Packer (Speak to Power)
- Which Party Is On The Side Of America? (Speak to Power)
- The Annoying Orange Is Back (Newscoma)
- Gilligan’s Island Revisted (Newscoma)
- Food for Thought… (Speak to Power)
- The Spirit Of Innovation (Newscoma)
- BOLO (Be on Lookout) (RoaneViews)
- Really, WTVF? REALLY? (Southern Beale)
- What Tennessee Bloggers Are Talking About (Speak to Power)
- TVA report on high water sampling (RoaneViews)
Media Blogs
- Asian restaurant plans Ruby move (Josh Flory)
- From Whom? (AC Kleinheider)
- Harold Ford’s Bonus (AC Kleinheider)
- Palin 2012 (AC Kleinheider)
- Playing The ‘War Card’ Is A Bad Thing (AC Kleinheider)
- Why Is Obama Failing? (AC Kleinheider)
- Now that's just dang funny! (Michael Silence)
- Not Mensa candidates (Michael Silence)
- Steve Cohen On The Death On John Murtha (AC Kleinheider)
- Say Murtha’s Name (AC Kleinheider)
- American Airlines to charge $8 for blankets (Michael Silence)
- The Tea Party Flag (AC Kleinheider)
- 'Five ways bloggers can use OpenCongress.org' (Michael Silence)
- Making Voting Easier On The Troops (AC Kleinheider)
- Defeating The Purpose (AC Kleinheider)
Local Paper
- Asian restaurant opening in Bearden (Knoxville News Sentinel Business)
- Seymour schools getting $100,000 from U.S. Cellular (Knoxville News Sentinel)
- Officials confirm death of Oak Ridge native in Haiti (Knoxville News Sentinel)
- Y-12 recruiting suppliers for Uranium Processing Facility (Knoxville News Sentinel Business)
- EdisonLearning signs Riverview Tower lease (Knoxville News Sentinel Business)
- German IT company lands in Chattanooga (Knoxville News Sentinel Business)
- Sentinel Tower site for sale (Knoxville News Sentinel Business)
- Discover card, Health Department will cut jobs in Memphis (Knoxville News Sentinel Business)
- Knoxville gasoline prices continue to drop (Knoxville News Sentinel Business)
- Tennessee hospitals push for tax to offset cuts to TennCare (Knoxville News Sentinel Business)
TV News
- Acquittal denied for George Thomas in Christian-Newsom murders (WATE local)
- Former Oak Ridge resident confirmed dead after Haiti earthquake (WATE local)
- Oak Ridge CDC employee Diane Caves found dead in Haiti (WATE local)
- Alcoa man arrested for drug possession after traffic stop, search (WATE local)
- Pigeon Forge man sought by police after wife found murdered (WATE local)
- Bonnaroo tickets go on sale at noon; lineup to be announced (WBIR Local)
- CDC worker, confirmed dead in Haiti, was an Oak Ridge grad (WBIR Local)
- Beware of wind chill with Tuesday's storm (WBIR Local)
- George Thomas motion for acquittal denied (WBIR Local)
- Lawmakers override Bredesen veto on menu labeling (WBIR Local)
- Knoxville among nation's Top 20 most romantic cities (WVLT Local)
- WVLT heads to space on Endeavour (WVLT Local)
- DOE demolishes former Y-12 lab (WVLT Local)
- Toyota recalls 437,000 Prius, hybrids globally (WVLT Local)
- Authorities investigate suspicious death in N. Knox County (WVLT Local)
Wire Reports
- Obama: GOP and Dems together can spur job growth (AP) (AP Politics)
- GOP wary of pitfalls in Obama's health care summit (AP) (AP Politics)
- Republicans may join Obama deficit panel: Boehner (Reuters) (AP Politics)
- Murtha's death sets stage for competitive race (AP) (AP Politics)
- Obama hopes to see jobs package in coming weeks (Reuters) (AP Politics)
- State Farm says it warned NHTSA on Toyota in 2007 (AP) (AP Politics)
- Fire consumes 2 Texas churches amid spate of arson (AP) (AP National News)
- Another major storm headed to snowy Mid-Atlantic (AP) (AP National News)
- Federal officials review Toyota Corolla complaints (AP) (AP Politics)
- Obama seeks to bridge divides on jobs package (AFP) (AP Politics)
- Investigators interview survivors of Conn. blast (AP) (AP National News)
- Obamas take on problem of obese children (Reuters) (AP Politics)
- Bernanke's Congress hearing put off due to weather (Reuters) (AP Politics)
- Parties of snow: The Hill's lost week (Politico) (AP Politics)
- Minn. bridge collapse widow adopts Haitian twins (AP) (AP National News)
- With Nelson, GOP blocks Obama labor board nominee (AP) (AP Politics)
- Michelle Obama kicks off drive against childhood obesity (AFP) (AP Politics)
- First lady begins fight against childhood obesity (AP) (AP Politics)
- New round of storms threatens SoCal foothill towns (AP) (AP National News)
- President Aids First Ladyâs Campaign Against Childhood Obesity (Bloomberg) (AP Politics)
About KnoxViews
Search
TN Progressive All-Stars
- BlountViews
- Crone Speaks
- Cup of Joe Powell
- Left Wing Cracker
- Liberadio(!)
- Newscoma
- OpenPen
- Pith in the Wind
- RoaneViews
- Sean Braisted
- Sharon Cobb
- Silence Isn't Golden
- Southern Beale
- Speak to Power
- TennViews
- Tiny Cat Pants
- TN Guerilla Women
- Vibinc
- WhitesCreek Journal
Nearby:
- AC Entertainment
- Ackermann Digital
- Blount Dems
- Carole Borges
- Craig Thomas
- David Oatney
- Discover ET
- Domestic Psychology
- Dwight Van de Vate
- Ellen Smith
- Farragut West Knox Net
- Fletch
- Fort Sanders
- Frank Murphy
- Gene Patterson
- Home/Work
- Infomaniac
- Instapundit
- Jack Lail
- Jack McElroy
- Jim Stovall
- Jonathan Hickman
- Julie Patchouli
- Knox Blog Buzz
- Knox Dems
- Knox Trivia
- KnoxBlab
- Knoxify
- KnoxPatch
- Knoxvillager
- Last Home
- Left of the Dial
- Les Jones
- Long Pauses
- Lynn Point Records
- MamaPundit
- Michael Grider
- Michael Silence
- MoxCarm Blue Streak
- Mushy's Moochings
- Phyllis Patterson
- Pittman Properties
- Property Scope
- Randall Brown
- Reality Me
- Resonance
- Rikki Hall
- Rob Huddleston
- School Matters
- Shane Rhyne
- Snark Bites
- Stacey Campfield
- Suzy Trotta
- Tabloid Boy
- Team Swap
- Terry Frank
- Thirteen Letters
- TN Clean Water
- Tom Humphrey
- Tri Cities
- Wendy Pitts Reeves
- Yellow Dog
Beyond:
- 10,000 Monkeys
- AC Kleinheider
- Andy Axel
- BlogNetNews TN
- Chris Jackson
- Daily Docket
- Democracy for TN
- Democratic Talk Radio
- Enclave
- Ginger Snaps
- Just Wonderin'
- Lean Left
- Lynnster Zone
- Mark Brown
- Nashville is Talking
- NewsTechZilla
- Pesky Fly
- Planet Rye
- Quiet Life
- Smart City Memphis
- Southern Liberal Living
- Sugarfused
- TN 4th District
- TN Dems
- TN Ticket
- TN Trivia
- TN Women's Caucus
- Volunteer Report
- West TN Liberal
- Your Liberal Friends
- Bob Stepno
- Dope on the Slope
- Facing South
- Great Smoky
- GTTim
- Hillbilly Savants
- Lovable Liberal
- Newsrack
- Opinari
- Wandering Hillbilly
At large:
- Agonist
- Alterdestiny
- American Street
- Atrios
- Burnt Orange Report
- Buzzflash
- Carpetbagger Report
- College Dems
- Common Cause
- Crooks and Liars
- Daily Kos
- Democratic Strategist
- Democrats.org
- Digby's Hullabaloo
- DSCC
- Eccentricity
- Huffington Post
- Lefty Blogs
- Liberal Oasis
- Media Matters
- MyDD
- Open Secrets
- Pam's House Blend
- Political Wire
- Politico
- Progressive States
- Seeing the Forest
- Senate Guru
- Skippy the Bush Kangaroo
- Suburban Guerrilla
- Swing State Project
- Talk Left
- Talking Points Memo
- Think Progress
- Truthdig
Government:
- City of Knoxville
- Homeless Ten Year Plan
- Knox Co Commission
- Knox County
- Knox County Code
- Knoxville Code
- State of Tennessee
- TN Code Annotated
- TN General Assembly
- U.S. House
- U.S. Senate
- U.S. Thomas LoC
- UT CTAS
- UT MTAS



Not to justify what was done . .
but to answer your question about where this was to be found in the law:
look at (b)
TCA
2-7-115. Residence requirements — Primary election voting requirements. —
(a) A voter may vote only in the precinct where the voter resides and is registered, but if a registered voter has, at any time prior to voting, changed residence to another place inside the county, the voter must vote pursuant to the provisions of § 2-7-140. If a registered voter has, within ninety (90) days before a state primary or general election or federal primary or general election, changed residence to another place inside Tennessee but outside the county where the voter is registered, the voter may vote in the polling place where the voter is registered. If the voter has, within ninety (90) days before an election, changed name by marriage or otherwise, the voter may vote in the polling place where the voter is registered or is entitled to vote under § 2-7-140.
(b) A registered voter is entitled to vote in a primary election for offices for which the voter is qualified to vote at the polling place where the voter is registered if:
(1) The voter is a bona fide member of and affiliated with the political party in whose primary the voter seeks to vote; or
(2) At the time the voter seeks to vote, the voter declares allegiance to the political party in whose primary the voter seeks to vote and states that the voter intends to affiliate with that party.
What's most curious about
What's most curious about all this to me is that nobody knows who the 700 "illegal" voters voted for. Or at least they're not supposed to. Maybe they voted for Barnes. Or does the TNDP know something different? Maybe they voted for Barnes as a way to torpedo a powerful incumbent Democrat and reduce the party's influence. Who knows?
Regardless, because Republicans didn't run a candidate in the primary, why shouldn't they "cross over" and have a say in who will eventually represent them in the Tennessee Senate?
And why didn't the TNDP contest the election before it was certified? It was certified, correct?
But all that aside, if we have a state law requiring fealty to a party, we should have registration by party to clear up any ambiguities or confusion.
And speaking of state laws, there is apparently also a state law that says elected delegates are to vote for the presidential candidate they are pledged to by the electors. But that didn't happen.
Laws are apparently useful when they fit the narrative, otherwise not so much.
The Debacle
I sat through the 8 hour proceedings, and think it was a travesty of "justice". However, there are a couple of points I'd like to clear up.
A) The TNDP did not challenge the election, Tim Barnes filed the challenge, and this Saturday was the quickest the Executive Committee could meet to hear the challenge.
B) Hillary Clinton and John Edwards released their delegates prior to the roll call vote, and therefore Tennessee law allows them to vote however they'd like.
The Barnes' team tried to make a connection between various efforts reported in the media regarding Republicans supporting Kurita, to a seemingly high number of voters who previously voted in 4 or more Republican primaries before voting in the Dem primary on August 7th.
Technically, what the board decided was that the election was too clouded to determine the rightful winner, and thus kicked it back down to the County Democratic Executive Committees to decide the winner.
The TNDP did not challenge
The TNDP did not challenge the election
Who said they did?
Hillary Clinton and John Edwards released their delegates prior to the roll call vote, and therefore Tennessee law allows them to vote however they'd like.
They did? What's the process for that? Is there a signed and/or certified letter or notification to the delegates or state party officials? None of the delegates I spoke with had heard anything about being "released." Several told me they and most others voted at 11AM, hours before Clinton's meeting with her delegates in which she encouraged them to vote for Obama but also told them "she was not telling them what to do." As far as I know the only "release" was when Clinton made a motion on the floor for "selection" (an interesting word choice) by acclamation, there was a second, and then a vote to do so.
Hillary releasing her
Hillary releasing her delegates.
Yes, have seen many of those
Yes, have seen many of those reports, but no exact quote from Clinton.
Anyway, most delegates had already voted long before then. They were told they could change their votes, though, up until 3 PM. Maybe some did.
So what's the formal process for releasing delegates?
Sounds about as formal as having a primary, ie. not much.
Don't know why we need to belabor the point, though. Your candidate won. You're starting to sound like one of those sore winners. I've moved on to trying to elect Democrats instead of tearing them down.
Just trying to correct the
Just trying to correct the record Randy, I'm not attacking Hillary or her supporters.
There is no real "official" process to release your delegates, just as there is no real punishment for delegates who vote counter to their pledged status.
The truth is the Presidential Preference Primary isn't really subject to much regulation, because there is very little official status in terms of laws governing the party.
There's no record here that
There's no record here that needs correcting, but thanks.
Sorry, next time when I see
Sorry, next time when I see factually incorrect statements I'll ignore them for the sake of party unity.
I'm not seeing a factually
I'm not seeing a factually incorrect statement regarding switching of votes. A Clinton delegate says on another thread (anonymously, so take it for what it's worth) that votes by Clinton delegates were cast for Obama prior to the 2PM meeting of Clinton delegates, and no one has been able to clarify as yet whether delegates were actually released at that meeting or what the formal process is for doing so. I suppose Gray Sasser is the only person who can answer if any Clinton delegates voted for Obama prior to allegedly being "released" at 2PM.
The point is, the primary on a national level and now this situation with Kurita shows that our primary proceess is flawed. I'm beginning to wonder why we waste time and money having them.
I'm beginning to wonder why
If the party is indeed the ultimate arbitor, rather than the electorate at large, that's a damned good question.
____________________________
the distance between black & white is much further than i would like until now i never noticed that fascism has many disguises -d. boon, 1981
Sasser won't
release the records, although in his defense neither will Party chairs in a number of other states.
Rumor has it (by many accounts on a number of national blogs) that the actual vote was held during the breakfast session of each state delegation before its members left for the Convention Center (and before Clinton released her delegates.) The story behind the silence is apparently that Clinton received enough votes to make Party elders put the results under lock and key in order to preserve "Party unity", or whatever it's called these days.
It'll be interesting to see whether the national PUMA movement decides to move forward with this. I think at this point the energies are more focused on getting Clinton elected either as Senate majority leader or into a position for a potential 2012 campaign, depending on what happens in November.
Who said they did? I thought
Who said they did?
I thought you did..."And why didn't the TNDP contest the election before it was certified?"
Didn't say they did before
Didn't say they did before or after.
I was asking why they didn't if it was so "incurably uncertain"?
Challenging
I'm not sure if there is a way for the party itself to challenge an election, I believe a certain individual effected has to be the one to do it. And you can't challenge the results until they are certified, because you can't technically know what the outcome will be.
But you *can* challenge
But you *can* challenge people on the basis of party affiliation in the polling place if you believe that they're interfering. (Still the criteria the law is weak - all you have to say is that you "intend to affiliate" with that party, and you've met the standard.)
____________________________
the distance between black & white is much further than i would like until now i never noticed that fascism has many disguises -d. boon, 1981
Actually, you are correct
Actually, you are correct here. I checked, and in a primary election only a candidate may challenge the results, and he or she must file the challenge with the party primary board within five days after certification.
A primary board (or executive committee acting as primary board), however, can request a recount. There does not appear to be any requirement as to timing of the request, so presumably it would be before the election is certified.
Does anyone really believe
Does anyone really believe that Gray Sasser is in charge of anything? That little boy does exactly what the good ol' boys tell him to do. Kurita pissed me off with her vote, but this election has now been stolen. Voters have been disenfranchised. It's a huge blackeye for Democrats. There's an old saying that in order to find out who committed a crime, you look for the person that benefitted the most from the crime. It's not hard to figure out who benefitted from stealing this election.
The not unpredictable GOP
The not unpredictable GOP reaction:
http://lastcar.blogspot.com/2008/09/let-every-vote-not-count.html
What's most curious about
Oh, they know damn well different. They pulled voter files. They know who those folks are.
a) When Phil Bredesen encourages "bipartisan support," it's considered political genius.
b) Even if Republicans ran someone in a primary, I have every right as a voter in this state to vote in that primary. In states where there is party registration, you have to go the extra step and change your affiliation. Big whoop. Happens all the time. Let's say that the GOP is running a primary and one of the characters is a Bible-thumping bigot, and the Democrat is running unopposed. I have every right to "interfere" in that primary. (Voting as interference - we're through the looking glass now. Goddamned pesky voters. Stupid democratic process.)
c) Now that I think about it, it especially gets my goat since she got shanked by Harold Ford's legions in 2006, ostensibly because there was this theory that HFJ would have gotten much broader bipartisan support. In that instance, we basically didn't even get to have a primary because the folks in the party knew so much better than the voters themselves. And Ford lost anyway. So much for "party wisdom."
Ding! The only action that you can take to establish your bona fides or your affiliation is to ask for a ballot with the word "Democrat" circled. (Greg: As a Democrat, if I were to walk into a Knox County polling place, would Knox County election officials require anything from me other than to say, "I want to vote in the Republican primary?" Does my name in the logbook show what way that I normally vote? Is there any other litmus test?)
For that matter, how did Tim Barnes establish his bona fides or affiliation when he said that he was a Democratic candidate in the primary? He just said so. That's all. He's never held public office before.
I was pissed off when I wrote this, but I saw him on Nashville's Fox17 saying, in essence, that the DCEC decision restored the integrity and democratic character of the primary by overturning the result of the popular vote.
Given the way that we conduct primaries in this state, I can't think of a statement any more supportive of outright corruption than that.
Word around the campfire has him hanging it up at the end of this term. Bye.
____________________________
the distance between black & white is much further than i would like until now i never noticed that fascism has many disguises -d. boon, 1981
I sat through the 8 hour
"Justice" is all we get anymore.
So, let's get this straight: They established a nexus between the Republicans and the media, so Kurita is out because she may have benefitted from that nexus?
On that basis, we could vacate Bredesen's election.
The executive committee saw what it wanted to see. 19 votes is a clear majority. There's nothing clouded about that. The cloud cast was, rather, that this decision had eff-all to do about the will of the residents of Dist. 22. Party hopping in the primary happens. All. The. Time. If there was a challenge to be made about the integrity of the process, Barnes should have had poll watchers stationed in every polling place and should have made the challenges at the time the election took place, not after he didn't get the result that he wanted. There weren't dead people voting, there weren't people falsifying addresses; there was party crossover. This is somehow news to these avowed partisans? They're in such shock and dismay that they need to make this the sample case? Give me a break.
If there's a problem with the way party affiliation is determined at the time, the remedy isn't throwing out the result that they don't like. It means that primaries need to be closed, and people need to vote by the party in which they are registered. Period, end of story.
____________________________
the distance between black & white is much further than i would like until now i never noticed that fascism has many disguises -d. boon, 1981
If there's a problem with
If there's a problem with the way party affiliation is determined at the time, the remedy isn't throwing out the result that they don't like. It means that primaries need to be closed, and people need to vote by the party in which they are registered. Period, end of story.
I agree. This should be the impetus for fixing the law. Either have truly open primaries, or registration by party.
What a farce. If this isn't
What a farce.
If this isn't fixed by next primary, this is what I propose:
1) Get a legion of people to register as poll-watchers statewide.
2) Challenge *EVERY* person's party bonafides at the polls. "Prove you're a Democrat!" "How can we be sure that you're a Republican?"
____________________________
the distance between black & white is much further than i would like until now i never noticed that fascism has many disguises -d. boon, 1981
My take here: Link...
My take here:
http://www.tennviews.com/node/3882
Power politics
This is a fight for control of the State Senate.Kurita didnt vote right for Lt Gov last time & the Democratic caucus wants Kurita gone & a Democrat that will vote Democrat for Lt Gov in.
When Barnes decided to challenge the primary by questioning the Democratic "bona fides" of the voters..the Democratic Executive Committee was ready willing & able to knock out Kurita.
Power politics.
As Greg pointed out the TCA allows challenges to party primary voters.
Its the law.
I'm sure its been done.But I've never done it nor have I ever heard of anybody doing it.But I bet we see it in the next party primary.Hell of a way to spend election day..sitting inside a polling place..doing nothing but trying to stop people from voting in your primary.Not my cup of tea.
What makes this dicey is the precedent.
Will we start seeing Knox County Democratic primaries challenged using
the Barnes standard?
Lots of people around here mostly vote in Republican primaries...so it wont be that hard to show Democratic primary voters..have gasp..voted in a Republican primary.
Lose a primary by 200 find out 201 have voted in a Republican primary..boom challenge..Barnes precedent..I win.
dont know the answer.
dont know the answer. 1.
dont know the answer.
1. Registration by party (or striking current "crossover" law from the books)
2. Primaries that actually matter, ie. aren't predetermined by negotiations between party bosses at the DNC and the media.
Convention tonight
The Executive Committees of the 3 counties met tonight to decide the Democratic nominee for this seat.Anyone can be placed into nomination but right now it only seams Barnes & Kurita's names will be offered.However,these things have a habit of a few last minute suprises.But no doubt Barnes is a huge favorite & also there is no doubt these partisan county Executive Committee members are still steamed about Kurita's Lt Gov vote.
There are 82 voting delegates.One person was not given credentials because no minutes were taken @ the county executive committee meeting when they were elected as a replacement.That individual cries foul because they were Kurita's county campaign manager in the primary & feels thats the real reason they cant vote @ the convention.
If Kurita doesnt get the Democratic nomination & the odds are pretty steep against that happening she will be running as a write-in.I think she can win.Four years ago,down ballot,Kurita ran just 3,000 votes behind Bush who won the district with 58.6%.
I can think of no reason why the district county Republican Parties would not get behind Kurita & maybe even the state Republican Party & it wouldnt suprise me if a few Republican incumbent senators throw some money in the race behind Kurita.
Like I said this is power politics about controlling the State Senate.Just think a month ago this race was over.No Republican nominee.Now this & suddenly the Republicans could put this race in play & pick up a vote for their caucus in the crucial election for Lt Gov.
Post new comment