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"I am not a bargaining chip"
Submitted by Bbeanster on Wed, 2008/06/04 - 12:23pm.
OK, so I'll admit I'm in a foul mood today, and it goes back to the Roshomon-esque experience of seeing uncritical praise for Hillary's speech here last night. That speech made me want to run my fist through the wall.
I really wanted to get back to liking her and Bill, and I'd hoped she'd give me reason to do so. But it was just another stump speech -- a really good stump speech, but as a stump speech, it was wildly out of place and full of stuff that just wasn't true, from the introduction as the "Next President of the United States" to the familiar "Most votes ever" Blahblah to the "Won the popular vote" Blahblah to the "Won South Dakota, the last primary*" Blahblah.
She needed to do something to start binding up the wounds, and except for the "I like Barack" disclaimer at the beginning, she just didn't.
Hilary Rosen, a staunch Clinton supporter who has taken a lot of bullets for HRC on CNN said it extremely well (although I don't think it's fair to credit Bill and Hillary's civil rights work for Obama's success).
I, too kept waiting for something I didn't hear. In times like these, I go back to my raisings, and since I was raised on the Bible, and I know Hillary professes to be very religious, I'd hoped maybe she'd read this before making that speech:
To every thing there is a season
and a time to every purpose under
the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die,
A time to plant, and a time to pluck
up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal;
A time to break down; and a time
to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones; and a time
to gather stones together;
A time to embrace and a time to refrain
from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose;
A time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew;
A time to keep silence and a time to speak
A time to love, and a time to hate;
A time of war, and a time of peace.
For everything there is a time under heaven.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-9
OK. I am not cool either, but just rent the DVD of Rashomon by Akira Kurosawa and enjoy. It features Toshiro Mifune and is based on a mood piece and a short story by Akutagawa.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Yeah, I googled Roshomon and got Rashomon. I quickly viewed the movie description.
Synoposis
------------ The film depicts the rape of a woman and the apparent murder of her husband through the widely differing accounts of four witnesses, including the rapist and, through a medium (Fumiko Honma), the dead man. The stories are mutually contradictory, leaving the viewer to determine which, if any, is the truth.
Didn't go to the Rashomon effect link. observers of an event are able to produce substantially different but equally plausible accounts of it.
Ah, but metulj, from many stories around these parts, the rumor is you are cool. However, there are probably contradictory views.
OK, so I'll admit I'm in a foul mood today, and it goes back to the Roshomon-esque experience of seeing uncritical praise for Hillary's speech here last night. That speech made me want to run my fist through the wall.
You're in a foul mood? Your guy WON. Be happy. Celebrate. Why let Hillary rain on your parade? Why focus more energy on her - she lost, it's over, and it will just be a matter of time before she concedes. Why this need to hear Hillary voters bash her? Fuggedaboutit.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Wed, 2008/06/04 - 3:16pm.
Why I'm in a bad mood after last night:
I don't like HRC attempting to pressure Obama into offering her the VP slot.
I don't like George Bush congratulating Obama before HRC has.
I don't like the screaming, blubbering scene her campaign coordinated Last Saturday at the credentials committee.
I *really* don't like reading that her people have told Barack's people that if she declines the VP position, she doesn't want it to be offered to another woman (this is as reported by Howard Fineman).
And I don't think we can really get on with the business of beating McCain until Hillary concedes in a clearly-understood, public way.
Those are some of the reasons that I was frustrated to come on here and read the glowing reviews of her speech.
But I take consolation in not being alone -- Hilary Rosen's pissed, too, and she's as big a Hillary Clinton supporter as there is. Not that anybody reads links.
Ok, it's your life. If you'd rather spend it being pissed at Hillary than happy your guy won, that's certainly your perogative.
But it's a bit unrealistic for you to expect Hillary supporters to start criticizing her the night she lost the nomination. And it doesn't help your guy much to keep insisting they should.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Wed, 2008/06/04 - 3:32pm.
Where have I insisted that you criticize Hillary? I was just taken aback at the effusive praise for her speech and the chortling use of the "heads exploding" cliche' to slam those who didn't like its tone.
Submitted by Andy Axel on Wed, 2008/06/04 - 3:43pm.
the chortling use of the "heads exploding" cliche' to slam those who didn't like its tone.
Apparently you haven't read Sean Braisted's blog. The caricature of himself that he's become is what I was chortling about, Betty. Of all people, I know he was probably among the most frustrated of the TN bloggers.
____________________________
"It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust?"
Oh, and the "deranged narcissism of the Clinton campaign" from Jeff Toobin was nice too.
It's one thing for people to say things like that on blogs. It's another for people who are supposed to be non-allied commentators to say them on national television.
I could get pissed off about it. But I'm having more fun laughing at their indignation.
Obamagramma
I too am in a foul mood today.... hubby and I have been fussing all day!.. Hillary needs to look beyond the end of her own nose and accept the fact that it's not all about her and she is not the center of the universe. I have listened to her whining about how "they" have picked on her and sending Bill out to have his tantrums when she failed to get her own way. That strident voice of hers explaining to us how wonderful she is just makes me sick. Eleanor Roosevelt and Golda Meier didn't whine and squawk about being picked on. I wish she would just take her marbles and go home.
Submitted by The Vol Abroad (not verified) on Thu, 2008/06/05 - 3:47am.
Y'all just can't help it, can you? You still have to stick it to Hillary. Like Rachel, I just don't get it. Do you want your guy to win in the Fall? Then you need our votes. Where you see whatever it is you see, we see a fighter - a woman who'll go to the bitter end for our interests. Where you see "calls for unity" - we see an attempt to tell a woman to shut up and get in line behind the man even when she continues to win primaries and the support of voters.
You want Hillary to take her marbles and go home? Fine. But just remember, those marbles aren't play-toys, they're votes.
Submitted by Andy Axel on Thu, 2008/06/05 - 9:36am.
just remember, those marbles aren't play-toys, they're votes.
And volunteers. And people who put out yard signs and adorn their cars with bumper stickers. And people who create buzz at the barber shops and nail salons. And donors.
____________________________
"It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust?"
Submitted by Pamela Treacy on Thu, 2008/06/05 - 9:33am.
As neither a bleeding republician or democrat, I think it is a day/time to celebrate for everyone in America. Regardless if Obama or Hillary won -- we would have had a first black or woman running for President. That is significant. It shows that we can put gender bias/race aside. Wow, I am truly grateful for that.
If we can get pass that, maybe as a country, we can stop labeling each other as democrats and republicians and get down to the serious business of making this country better/great again.
From this point forward, I want to hear the issues along with the proposed solution and pray that one of the candidates offers me a sound reason to give them my vote.
Wining the primary was not/is not the goal. It was probably a requirement if the goal is to be reached but winning the primary and winning the White House are not the goals. Winning is a republican goal. It is one of the reasons they are good at it. Nothing matters to them but the winning and anything they do that results in winning is therefore justified. Liberals are supposed to be different. Winning and losing take a backseat to moving the nation forward. They are nothing compared to individual rights, respect for the Constitution, and ensuring that children don't die simply for choosing stupid parents. I'm no mind reader but, I think perhaps the rancor against Hillary is rooted in that it appeared that she took a very republican approach to winning, a scorched earth policy that does not serve to move us any closer to respectable, deserving Liberal ideals.
It has appeared to me from past actions that Democrats have to win to achieve the goal of "moving the nation forward". Ask Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton how successful you can be defending "individual rights, respect for the Constitution, and ensuring that children don't die simply for choosing stupid parents" if you don't win.
Winning is a republican goal. Yes, and they are pretty good at it. See the GWB, GHWB, RR, RN presidencies and the results they have achieved to possibly realize the importance of winning.
Or, better yet, ask Hubert Humphrey, George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, or John Kerry how they feel about their achievements after not winning.
Submitted by Andy Axel on Fri, 2008/06/06 - 9:31am.
Or, better yet, ask Hubert Humphrey, George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, or John Kerry how they feel about their achievements after not winning.
I'm pretty sure that Al Gore feels pretty good after being awarded the Nobel Prize.
Other than that, no tellin'.
____________________________
"It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust?"
Roshomon-esque experience of seeing uncritical praise for Hillary's speech here last night
Okay, I'm not cool or well read or something. What do you mean by Roshomon-esque?
I'm not so cool, either, since I misspelled Rashomon.
The Rashomon Effect -- Link...
Kind of like the blind man and the elephant -- "seeing" reality differently from our own points of view.
OK. I am not cool either, but just rent the DVD of Rashomon by Akira Kurosawa and enjoy. It features Toshiro Mifune and is based on a mood piece and a short story by Akutagawa.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Yeah, I googled Roshomon and got Rashomon. I quickly viewed the movie description.
Synoposis
------------
The film depicts the rape of a woman and the apparent murder of her husband through the widely differing accounts of four witnesses, including the rapist and, through a medium (Fumiko Honma), the dead man. The stories are mutually contradictory, leaving the viewer to determine which, if any, is the truth.
Didn't go to the Rashomon effect link. observers of an event are able to produce substantially different but equally plausible accounts of it.
Ah, but metulj, from many stories around these parts, the rumor is you are cool. However, there are probably contradictory views.
I was told recently that I scared someone because I look like I should be in the JayCees.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
I liked it when the Byrds sung it
She asked us to tell her what to do, so I sent her an e-mail.
OK, so I'll admit I'm in a foul mood today, and it goes back to the Roshomon-esque experience of seeing uncritical praise for Hillary's speech here last night. That speech made me want to run my fist through the wall.
You're in a foul mood? Your guy WON. Be happy. Celebrate. Why let Hillary rain on your parade? Why focus more energy on her - she lost, it's over, and it will just be a matter of time before she concedes. Why this need to hear Hillary voters bash her? Fuggedaboutit.
Seriously, I really don't get it.
She lost. I wanted her to get the nomination and she didnt....
So I support Sen Obama now....and I am cool with that....
I dont get the hostility at all.
Then again, I play RPG games on the weekend, so what do I know????
No Matter Where you go, There you Are!!!!
Why I'm in a bad mood after last night:
I don't like HRC attempting to pressure Obama into offering her the VP slot.
I don't like George Bush congratulating Obama before HRC has.
I don't like the screaming, blubbering scene her campaign coordinated Last Saturday at the credentials committee.
I *really* don't like reading that her people have told Barack's people that if she declines the VP position, she doesn't want it to be offered to another woman (this is as reported by Howard Fineman).
And I don't think we can really get on with the business of beating McCain until Hillary concedes in a clearly-understood, public way.
Those are some of the reasons that I was frustrated to come on here and read the glowing reviews of her speech.
But I take consolation in not being alone -- Hilary Rosen's pissed, too, and she's as big a Hillary Clinton supporter as there is. Not that anybody reads links.
Ok, it's your life. If you'd rather spend it being pissed at Hillary than happy your guy won, that's certainly your perogative.
But it's a bit unrealistic for you to expect Hillary supporters to start criticizing her the night she lost the nomination. And it doesn't help your guy much to keep insisting they should.
Where have I insisted that you criticize Hillary? I was just taken aback at the effusive praise for her speech and the chortling use of the "heads exploding" cliche' to slam those who didn't like its tone.
Apparently you haven't read Sean Braisted's blog. The caricature of himself that he's become is what I was chortling about, Betty. Of all people, I know he was probably among the most frustrated of the TN bloggers.
____________________________
"It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust?"
You don't like to see pundits' heads exploding?
I'm still stuck on the Nixon thing.
Oh, and the "deranged narcissism of the Clinton campaign" from Jeff Toobin was nice too.
It's one thing for people to say things like that on blogs. It's another for people who are supposed to be non-allied commentators to say them on national television.
I could get pissed off about it. But I'm having more fun laughing at their indignation.
Obamagramma
I too am in a foul mood today.... hubby and I have been fussing all day!.. Hillary needs to look beyond the end of her own nose and accept the fact that it's not all about her and she is not the center of the universe. I have listened to her whining about how "they" have picked on her and sending Bill out to have his tantrums when she failed to get her own way. That strident voice of hers explaining to us how wonderful she is just makes me sick. Eleanor Roosevelt and Golda Meier didn't whine and squawk about being picked on. I wish she would just take her marbles and go home.
Y'all just can't help it, can you? You still have to stick it to Hillary. Like Rachel, I just don't get it. Do you want your guy to win in the Fall? Then you need our votes. Where you see whatever it is you see, we see a fighter - a woman who'll go to the bitter end for our interests. Where you see "calls for unity" - we see an attempt to tell a woman to shut up and get in line behind the man even when she continues to win primaries and the support of voters.
You want Hillary to take her marbles and go home? Fine. But just remember, those marbles aren't play-toys, they're votes.
just remember, those marbles aren't play-toys, they're votes.
And volunteers. And people who put out yard signs and adorn their cars with bumper stickers. And people who create buzz at the barber shops and nail salons. And donors.
____________________________
"It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust?"
As neither a bleeding republician or democrat, I think it is a day/time to celebrate for everyone in America. Regardless if Obama or Hillary won -- we would have had a first black or woman running for President. That is significant. It shows that we can put gender bias/race aside. Wow, I am truly grateful for that.
If we can get pass that, maybe as a country, we can stop labeling each other as democrats and republicians and get down to the serious business of making this country better/great again.
From this point forward, I want to hear the issues along with the proposed solution and pray that one of the candidates offers me a sound reason to give them my vote.
Pamela Treacy
Wining the primary was not/is not the goal. It was probably a requirement if the goal is to be reached but winning the primary and winning the White House are not the goals. Winning is a republican goal. It is one of the reasons they are good at it. Nothing matters to them but the winning and anything they do that results in winning is therefore justified. Liberals are supposed to be different. Winning and losing take a backseat to moving the nation forward. They are nothing compared to individual rights, respect for the Constitution, and ensuring that children don't die simply for choosing stupid parents. I'm no mind reader but, I think perhaps the rancor against Hillary is rooted in that it appeared that she took a very republican approach to winning, a scorched earth policy that does not serve to move us any closer to respectable, deserving Liberal ideals.
We haven't won shit.
CAFKIA
-----------------------------------------------------------
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo
It has appeared to me from past actions that Democrats have to win to achieve the goal of "moving the nation forward". Ask Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton how successful you can be defending "individual rights, respect for the Constitution, and ensuring that children don't die simply for choosing stupid parents" if you don't win.
Winning is a republican goal. Yes, and they are pretty good at it. See the GWB, GHWB, RR, RN presidencies and the results they have achieved to possibly realize the importance of winning.
Or, better yet, ask Hubert Humphrey, George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, or John Kerry how they feel about their achievements after not winning.
I'm pretty sure that Al Gore feels pretty good after being awarded the Nobel Prize.
Other than that, no tellin'.
____________________________
"It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust?"
I suppose I should have said the country's achievements.
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