Tue
Apr 15 2008
01:32 pm
Rachel Maddow lays it out so that it is easy to understand why the "bitter" comment is a red-herring thrown out by Obama's opponents. While on David Gregory's CNN show she explained it in clear, precise terms and still the talking heads like Scarborough and Gregory just haven't got the ability to grasp it.
See the video at Crooks and Liars.
Even when Scarborough finally seems to concede that she is right, he still pursues the "Obama is an Elitist" meme without skipping a beat. They just keep beating that dog to death and it still won't fly.
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He’s saying that those
He’s saying that those folks in America do not believe they’re going to get any economic help from Washington so they don’t’ vote their economic interests when they vote, they instead vote these other things.
He's saying then that the people aren't smart enough to vote based on issues that, according to Obama and his supporters, are really important to them.
So instead of religion being the opiate of the people, it's now, according to Obama, religion and gun control issues.
I'm sure the people in fly over country will appreciate Sen. Obama straightening them out.
NO...
What he is saying, IF you can grasp this concept, is that people who believe Washington DOES NOT CARE and is NOT LISTENING to them on economic issues and believe that the fat cats in power never will, will vote on the next issue closest to their heart. People who have been left behind by falling wages and disappearing jobs still need to have some kind of hope, so they vote for the things they care about beyond the economic issues because they believe that they can at least make a difference with their vote on those issues since they have become convinced that voting for their economic concerns does NO GOOD.
He is saying not that they aren't smart enough, but that they are smarter than politicians think, and have already figured out that the pols don't give a shit about regular people's economic hardships. He is saying that he understands when they vote based on an issue like gun control for someone who doesn't have their best interest in mind when it comes to economic issues BECAUSE they know that NONE of the candidates do. So they go for the guy that promises them that they will at least keep the right to bear arms. Or they vote for the candidate that promises women will keep the right to choose, or the one that promises to try to overturn Roe v. Wade, or the one that promises to end the war, or to protect the environment...etc.
What is so HARD about it for some to understand what he is saying? He's speaking perfectly good English.
________________________________________________
"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali
Dear Gary, Have you bothered
Dear Gary, Have you bothered reading the entire transcript of the speech or just the snippets that Fox News feeds you when you watch the "Fox Report" ?
Gary, An example of what
Gary,
An example of what Sen. Obama was talking about is right before your eyes here in the great state of Tennessee. Tennesseans voted Republican in 2000 and 2004 and look what we got, PRICE OF A GALLON OF GAS APPROACHING $4.00. Check out article in todays KNS - "FEEDING FAMILIES GETTING HARDER", WORKING POOR LINING UP FOR MEDICAL CARE ALA THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, UNNECESSARY WAR IN IRAQ. RECESSION, INFLATION, etc., YOU NAME IT WE GOT IT.
Against my better judgment,
Against my better judgment, I'm gonna dip a toe into these waters. Here's what I think you're missing. This little ditty insulted a whole lot of people in this country, and Obama has gone and insulted them again, and in the very same way.
One of the worst things a pol can do when running for election is "play to type"; that is, act like the caricature his opponent has created of him. Michael Dukakis looking clueless while riding in a tank and John Kerry windsurfing are examples that come to mind. Republicans caricature Democrats as clueless elitists who have nothing in common with ordinary working folks - "Reagan Democrats", if you will. And then here comes Obama, speaking off the record at a private event that was closed to the press - speaking his mind, in other words, with the observer effect minimized, and when he thinks no one but affluent San Franciscans are listening, utters a phrase that makes him sound like a clueless elitist who has nothing in common with ordinary working folks.
It doesn't matter if you think he's right. It doesn't even matter if he could be empirically proved right. What matters, in an election, is that his statement seems to much of the observing world to be the stereotypical statement of an out-of-touch academic progressive - not an image that sells very well in "Jesusland." And the fact is that no Democrat has yet been able to win the Presidency without winning at least part of Jesusland.
Rail against the unfairness of it all if you wish, but if you think that this is just some blip that's being pumped up by the Faux News crowd, you're fooling yourself. Obama hasn't even started to see the damage these comments will cause him down the road.
makes him sound like a
And this worthless canard is getting far more play than it's worth, but such is the nature of our deeply dysfunctional discourse - much like George Bush Senior's moment at the checkout, the first time he'd ever seen a UPC scanner and got a close-up look at the cost of a gallon of milk. Or John Kerry's NASCAR moment. Or Dukakis in the tank.
So yeah. The point is well-taken. Obama has to behave like the tape recorder is always rolling, and it was bone-headed to believe that there weren't people there bent on creating oppo. So it was stupid on that score.
I'll go you one further: the Obama campaign still can't figure out why it was similarly stupid to hurl loud accusations of dog-whistle racism at every opportunity a while back. I'm specifically thinking of the charges thrown at other Democrats committed to HRC, but it works just as well in considering allegedly embittered middle Americans.
Here's another hint at the problem...
Why have they become convinced of that, pray tell? Is it because they've been screwed sideways by Republican and Democrat alike; ran over in a scramble to capture the middle of the road by the duly elected representatives of our plutocracy that's largely left these decent folks for dead?
And as a practical matter, I'm not sold on "hope" as an electoral stratagem. "People left behind by falling wages and disappearing jobs" don't need hope. They need decent jobs and decent wages. I should hope that Obama understands the difference, but it appears that many "progressives" don't. I think Edwards did, and you can see how this "elitist" tag hung to him in the primary. Unfortunately.
Oh, but some people go on to make thousands of dollars recommending specifically this strategem for Democrats. (This same author has no campaign experience, by the way.)
And we wonder why we lose.
____________________________
With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
People Have Every Right to
Mr. McCain started yelling "elitist." To prove that he is just as apple pie as you or I, his folks even published family recipes on his campaign web site - stolen recipes.
Speaking of recipes, Don't feel too bad Mr. Bush. The Home held a dinner tonight in honor of the Pontiff's visit but he didn't show up here either.
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Dear Gary, Have you bothered
Dear Gary, Have you bothered reading the entire transcript of the speech or just the snippets that Fox News feeds you when you watch the "Fox Report" ?
I don't have cable, it's too expensive and not worth it, so I don't watch Fox News. I'm glad you have the money to spend.
He is saying not that they aren't smart enough, but that they are smarter than politicians think, and have already figured out that the pols don't give a shit about regular people's economic hardships.
So, people don't think that politicians care about economic issues, but they care enough about the other issues to vote for them?
That kind of goes against the conventional wisdom that people vote based on their pocketbooks, doesn't it?
In the latest poll, seventy percent of Americans feel that the country is on the wrong track economically. And only thirty percent approve of the President's job performance. So where's the apathy Sen. Obama is talking about?
Obama would have been better off he had just said, "I feel that the economic well being of people is more important than these other issues like gun control and other issues that people advocate."
But instead, he tried to spin it with "I could have worded it differently, etc, etc," and that didn't really help him.
He's not the only one who believes the way he does; there are plenty of pols who feel that way in both parties. Obama's mistake was to state it outside of his close circle of advisers. I don't think it will be fatal to his campaign, but it will come back up again.
Re. when people vote their
Re. when people vote their pocketbooks, they vote Republican. They want to be rich and beautiful and drive nice cars and live in big houses just like Republicans. They don't want to be living in Section 8 housing on welfare and foodstamps handed out by Democrats. Besides, Republicans are better businessmen (emphasis on men). They will know how to fix things.
Plus, they won't vote for Democrats because they will raise taxes (it's guaranteed, just ask any Republican) to pay for frivolous stuff like education and health care that creates a smart, healthy work force that is good for business and attracts investment. That kind of stuff is too complicated. A check in the mail from the U.S. Treasury, now THAT'S something a fellow can hold in his hand and understand, before spending it at Wal-Mart.
You think 2nd Amendment absolutists are going to vote for HRC?
Ha!
Most politicians get in trouble for lying.
Barack Obama gets in trouble for telling the truth.
Hillary, who is firmly in the first category, nearly made me puke on my shoes last weekend with her pandering to the anti-abortion, gun-toting, happy hour crowd. If that shot of her doing shots and attempting to act like an off-hours stevedore doesn't come back to bit her in the ass I cannot imagine what will -- although she's weathered a helluva lot by riding on Bill's Q rating.
As a former Clinton defender, I'm left rather dazed by this campaign, so I checked out some Hillary bios last week. I'm done with one, starting on the second. I'm still dazed, and my Republican friends are laughing.
Right, Johnny Ringo?
As a former Clinton
As a former Clinton defender, I'm left rather dazed by this campaign, so I checked out some Hillary bios last week. I'm done with one, starting on the second. I'm still dazed, and my Republican friends are laughing.
Right, Johnny Ringo?
Me? Never.
Ok, we are. We were saying these things about Bill & Hill throughout the 90's. There's a certain amount of Schadenfreude in seeing Democrats shocked - shocked - to find out that the Clintons can be cynical, self-interested opportunists with a lassaiz faire attitude toward truth.
I didn't post here to argue about who should be the next President - that's a losing posposition for me here for a host of reasons and I won't start. It is interesting, though, to watch this contest from a certain political distance, as each of the Democratic candidates contends to see which can be the first to knock themselves out, and wonder which candidate would be stronger for the Democrats - the one whose liabilities are already known because they have been explored and analyzed through 8 years in the White House and beyond, or the young fresh candidate who, while admittedly charming and charismatic, has yet to be really tested in any serious and sustained political contest.
John Harris at the Politico makes the point well:
In fact, the Democratic race has not been especially rough by historical standards. What’s more, our conversations with Democrats who speak to the Clintons make plain that their public comments are only the palest version of what they really believe: that if Obama is the nominee, a likely Democratic victory would turn to a near-certain defeat.
Far from a no-holds-barred affair, the Democratic contest has been an exercise in self-censorship.
Rip off the duct tape and here is what they would say: Obama has serious problems with Jewish voters (goodbye Florida), working-class whites (goodbye Ohio) and Hispanics (goodbye, New Mexico).
Republicans will also ruthlessly exploit openings that Clinton — in the genteel confines of an intraparty contest — never could. Top targets: Obama’s radioactive personal associations, his liberal ideology, his exotic life story, his coolly academic and elitist style.
This is the point I was trying to make above. For a variety of reasons, Clinton can't use Obama's comments nearly as much as she'd like, because in doing so she risks alienating too many of the voters she needs in the primary. McCain is under no such constraints.
The Democrats, frankly, are in a hell of a box. As I understand the history, "superdelegates" were introduced into the party's nominating procedures in order to avoid a repeat of the rout of 1972. I suspect that a lot of those superdelegates - party regulars and ex-officio elected officials who are chosen because they supposedly know how to win elections - may believe that Obama is a political disaster waiting to happen, for the reasons Harris cites above. And yet if Obama comes to the convention with a majority of pledged delegates, they probably can't act on those beliefs without alienating so much of the party base as to make the prophecy self-fulfilling. It's an interesting conundrum, and however it comes out it certainly has made for the most entertaining political season I've seen in a long, long time.
We were saying these things
We were saying these things about Bill & Hill throughout the 90's. There's a certain amount of Schadenfreude in seeing Democrats shocked - shocked - to find out that the Clintons can be cynical, self-interested opportunists with a lassaiz faire attitude toward truth.
Some of us loved Bruce Babbitt and despised Clinton from his first vapid moment in the spotlight, but would still give anything to return to the decent and honest nation we lived in before the blowjob impeachment and the vile debasement of power that has made liars kings and citizens cowards.
Some of us loved Bruce
Some of us loved Bruce Babbitt and despised Clinton from his first vapid moment in the spotlight, but would still give anything to return to the decent and honest nation we lived in before the blowjob impeachment and the vile debasement of power that has made liars kings and citizens cowards.
Yeah, I miss Reagan too.
Yeah, But
Yeah, but you Repubs should have loved Bill Clinton.
Like I've always said, he's the best Republican president we've ever had!
Saint Raygun? He was a very poor excuse for even a B actor, much less President, regardless of all the fluffing he's had.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
All of this didn't start in
All of this didn't start in a vacuum. It started in 1972 with Roe vs Wade. And the case can be made that it even started earlier following Goldwater's defeat in '64. That was when the Conservative think tanks started going and in '72 they glummed on the abortion/ERA topics. The book by Thomas Frank "What's the Matter With Kansas" does an excellent job of documenting how the Right did this by aptly manipulating the social and religous concerns/fears of small town America.
On a personal note, despite being politically liberal I am, and attend an Evangelical Church. One that is very conservative politically (it's a long story why I go there and not one I want to share here/now) but yes, "values voters" will vote against their pocket book, easily, readily, frequently and even gleefully. To "vote your values" is to the average Evangelical Christian a vote for God, God's laws and so on. To "vote your pocket book" is to "For, as I often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies to the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things" (Php. 3:18 - 19).
This is used to create a false dilemma; vote for god or vote material things, sin, and so on. And I have heard these verses preached on from just that point of view. Many of my fellow church goers will vote for the "pro-life' candidate regardless of where the candidate is on other issues. This is why pro-family, pro-life politicans can be elected and re-elected no matter how many hooker hook-ups they have, why serial adulteers can, and frequently do get a pass on their conduct. Because if we elect "liberal" candidates, babies will die, guns will be confiscated (thus paving the way for "the New World Order", the Anti-Christ and so on), the Gay life-style will be enshrined and encourged and so on. And, yes, people do believe all that, many more than you think (or would want to think), they are taught that, they can buy books at the local Christian Bookstore that teach that and explain that, preachers preach on it and right-wing media spin monkeys masturbate it for all they can get.
And finally, don't make the mistake of confronting them with facts or they'll beat you over the head with: "For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength" (1Cor 1:25). Obama made the mistake of stating a fact and, yes, it might hurt him or it might pass, I don't know.
So for what its' worth ...
Take Care, Be Good and don't play in the street!
SteveMule
Obama made the mistake of
I know several 'Christians' who will only vote for a male WASP.
Oh, they will tell you every 'reason' in the book for their 'logical' choice of candidate except the real one.
Visit us at
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Yeah, I miss Reagan
Sure, what's not to miss about stomping Grenada, Salvadoran death squads, and that decent and honest cadre of spooks making nice with the Shi'a autocracy in Iran so that Nicaraguan rapists could have better ammo... those were the days...
Our wars of choice were at least covert then.
Ah, morning in America.
____________________________
With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
Sure, what's not to miss
Sure, what's not to miss about stomping Grenada, Salvadoran death squads, and that decent and honest cadre of spooks making nice with the Shi'a autocracy in Iran so that Nicaraguan rapists could have better ammo... those were the days...
At least then the country had the decency to be upset over the crimes and the honesty to investigate what happened. Now we let enlisted soldiers rot in jail as scapegoats for Rumsfeld, change laws retroactively and simply go silent in the face of major crimes. We are a disgrace.
Signed,
Bitter and stupidly clinging to the notion that news of the White House ordering torture is more important than parsing Obama's words over and over and over and over. Hey, look, a man in a funny hat!
Now we let enlisted
And Poindexter, Secord, and Abrams had jobs in the Bush II administration after their pardons. North has his own radio show. Bush I went on to become president after getting a pass as unindicted co-conspirator in that whole "selling arms to Iran" boondoggle.
Whatever.
____________________________
With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
Rachel Maddow
Rachel Maddow is a real gem and should not only have her own show but also be running a major network TV news. Smart as they come.
Mix metaphors much? :-) Made me smile 'cause I do the same ... won't get fooled again!
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
I, as a strong Democrat, was
I, as a strong Democrat, was very pleased with the Bill Clinton presidency. I do believe he had some of the highest approval ratings ever from Democrat voters. It was wonderful that HRC started a dialogue about healthcare for all during his term. It's too bad that the Democrats in their oh so disorganized organization can't make it happen even now.