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Obama has a tell
Submitted by R. Neal on Mon, 2008/03/03 - 11:00pm.
I wasn't paying much attention to the NAFTA debate between Clinton and Obama, other than noting that Clinton was the first to distance herself from NAFTA early on.
Then Obama picked up, once again, on one of her themes and said in a later debate that he, too, would walk away from NAFTA if he couldn't get reforms.
Then the Canadian government leaked some info that his campaign had been up there making backchannel assurances not to worry because he was behind NAFTA despite his rhetoric on the campaign trail. (Who else is Obama giving backchannel assurances to that are contrary to what he tells voters?)
Obama denied any such talk, and said even if there was such talk whatever they are talking about was taken out of context.
Then the Canadian government produced a memo documenting the meeting and the assurances.
Then Obama said the meeting was held with his top economic advisor without his knowledge and that it was supposed to be a "casual conversation." (Who else are Obama's top advisors having "casual conversations" with without his knowledge, and how did he know it was supposed to be "casual conversation" if he didn't know about it?)
He also said that his previous denials of such talks were based on the information he had at the time. (Which sounds just like the same argument he ignores when criticizing Clinton for her vote on the Iraq war.)
Then, watching his "explanation" on Countdown with Keith Olbermann tonight, the Mrs. noticed that Obama has a tell. I'm not much of a poker player (and I would never play poker with the Mrs. because I already owe her several million dollars on past bets), but when she pointed it out it was pretty obvious. You can see it in this video clip:
Prior to this I hadn't been able to get much of a read on the guy, other than he's an eloquent speaker. This whole episode "tells" me a lot, so to speak.
Tongue gestures and pauses on conference calls are actually being passed off as legitimate bases for choosing a President. Obviously this election has entered the insanity phase.
Harper and the Canadian Embassy, meanwhile, expressed regret about how the discussions from the memo have been interpreted.
Embassy officials said in a statement "there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA."
"Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign," said the memo, obtained by The Associated Press.
But one can certainly understand why the Canadian government would want to smooth things over with the current administration in terms of NAFTA and the the appearance of meddling in U.S. elections.
Submitted by R. Neal on Tue, 2008/03/04 - 10:07am.
Bush has a "tell" SK Bubba, 2/28/2003 11:00:00 AM
You remember the old joke: How do you tell when Bush is lying? His lips are moving. Well, that's not entirely fair. Sometimes he tells the truth. But sometimes it's hard to tell.
I just caught a few seconds of a speech he was giving, and he said something to the effect that "I can assure you that the FBI's top priority is fighting terrorism".
Then I noticed it: Bush has a "tell".
A "tell" is a gesture, expression, or affectation that gives away the fact that the speaker is lying. I'm told that it's very useful in poker as a way of knowing when the other guy is bluffing.
When Bush lies, he twists his mouth around to the side and bites his lip.
Police interrogators have studied the art of lying for years. They note that moving ones hand near the face or covering the mouth while speaking is a "tell". The theory is that the person is unconsciously trying to cover the lie, or keep it from coming out, or capture it and push it back in. (Clinton touched his eye or his nose when he lied).
It seems to me this theory would also apply to biting your lip -- trying unconsciously to keep the lie from escaping. (Interestingly, mispronouncing words is also a "tell"). This should not be confused with the famous "smirk", which he exhibits when he says something that even he knows is either incredibly stupid or arrogant.
Anyway, I am bringing this to your attention as a public service announcement. Pay close attention the next time Bush speaks and see if you can spot it, too. It might help you better interpret his remarks.
I just wish the WhiteHouse.Gov archivers would insert "(bites lip)" in his speech transcripts, similar to how they insert "(applause)". It would help those of us who miss his TV broadcasts better understand what he's really saying.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Tue, 2008/03/04 - 11:18am.
I guess Hillary's forced laugh -- Link...
isn't involuntary (is it?), so it can't be considered a "tell," as I understand it. But I'd have to see more than one example of Obama's tongue-thing to be convinced. And as has already been pointed out -- there's an old political saw that asks:
Q - "How can you tell if (fill-in-the-name) is lying?
A- "Her lips are moving."
When he starts flicking his tongue like a rattlesnake, I'll start worrying.
Submitted by Average Guy on Tue, 2008/03/04 - 12:01pm.
A- "Her lips are moving."
Looks like Beanster has a tell.
Hillary's "tell" seems to have her better suited for a straight jacket rather than a poker table. All her supporters say in person she is warm and humorous. Since she has been holed up in government for 35 years, I guess her responses are "funny" to those inside the beltway. Maybe one of millions of good reasons not to indulge those who think political positions are a career move. I think civil service has gotten confused with self service. Probably about the same time we stopped teaching civics. I've heard Obama speak about service to the country - all others seem to be relying on their DC experience to fix our woes. How's that been working again?
Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.
George Bernard Shaw
I felt embarrassed for Bob Shieffer. As he seems to be the only adult still chaperoning the dance, and as one who has seen a lot in his tenure - I would imagine Hillary's random breakups had him scratching his head.
Submitted by Pam Strickland on Tue, 2008/03/04 - 3:28pm.
All her supporters say in person she is warm and humorous.
I remember very well a few one-on-one conversations that I had w/ her in the 80s, a thousand years in political time. I especially remember when she shouted at me across the LR equivalent of Market Square shortly after BC announced in '87 that he would not be running for pres in '88. I was on the other side of the pedestrian mall. She called my name, and I was surprised to see it was her who wanted to talk w/ me. So we approached one another and she asked me how I was doing. It was a very relaxed and funny conversation, must have gone one for 20 minutes before I told her that I needed to go ahead and get my vacation plane tickets and get back to the office.
But whether she has a tell, hummmmmmm, probably that laugh. It can be irritating.
I'm w/ Rachel though -- let's get it over w/ and get ready for the fall.
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
That tears it.
Pikki Rikki '08!
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
I doubt either are being very straight in their discussions of NAFTA.
Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.
Tongue gestures and pauses on conference calls are actually being passed off as legitimate bases for choosing a President. Obviously this election has entered the insanity phase.
Usually you don't need a "tell" to know when politicians are lying, you just have to see their lips move, right?
So this clip just shows what a great candidate Obama is. He's not lying all the time!
;-)
you left out this part:
Harper and the Canadian Embassy, meanwhile, expressed regret about how the discussions from the memo have been interpreted.
Embassy officials said in a statement "there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA."
It also says:
But one can certainly understand why the Canadian government would want to smooth things over with the current administration in terms of NAFTA and the the appearance of meddling in U.S. elections.
He's not lying all the time!
Hah! Good point.
Ok, so what is Hillary's tell ?
Good question. We'll be on the lookout.
(Trivia: "Bush's tell" was one of the most read articles ever at South Knox Bubba.)
yes, Randy, the sky is blue. Protectionism is indeed an issue in the United States. Good catch.
Was that the "hula jaw" pointed out by Randi Rhodes?
I remember when you posted that and Atrios pointed his 2 dozen readers to your post. Old times.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Bush has a "tell"
SK Bubba, 2/28/2003 11:00:00 AM
You remember the old joke: How do you tell when Bush is lying? His lips are moving. Well, that's not entirely fair. Sometimes he tells the truth. But sometimes it's hard to tell.
I just caught a few seconds of a speech he was giving, and he said something to the effect that "I can assure you that the FBI's top priority is fighting terrorism".
Then I noticed it: Bush has a "tell".
A "tell" is a gesture, expression, or affectation that gives away the fact that the speaker is lying. I'm told that it's very useful in poker as a way of knowing when the other guy is bluffing.
When Bush lies, he twists his mouth around to the side and bites his lip.
Police interrogators have studied the art of lying for years. They note that moving ones hand near the face or covering the mouth while speaking is a "tell". The theory is that the person is unconsciously trying to cover the lie, or keep it from coming out, or capture it and push it back in. (Clinton touched his eye or his nose when he lied).
It seems to me this theory would also apply to biting your lip -- trying unconsciously to keep the lie from escaping. (Interestingly, mispronouncing words is also a "tell"). This should not be confused with the famous "smirk", which he exhibits when he says something that even he knows is either incredibly stupid or arrogant.
Anyway, I am bringing this to your attention as a public service announcement. Pay close attention the next time Bush speaks and see if you can spot it, too. It might help you better interpret his remarks.
I just wish the WhiteHouse.Gov archivers would insert "(bites lip)" in his speech transcripts, similar to how they insert "(applause)". It would help those of us who miss his TV broadcasts better understand what he's really saying.
OK, then.
I guess Hillary's forced laugh -- Link...
isn't involuntary (is it?), so it can't be considered a "tell," as I understand it. But I'd have to see more than one example of Obama's tongue-thing to be convinced. And as has already been pointed out -- there's an old political saw that asks:
Q - "How can you tell if (fill-in-the-name) is lying?
A- "Her lips are moving."
When he starts flicking his tongue like a rattlesnake, I'll start worrying.
Looks like Beanster has a tell.
Hillary's "tell" seems to have her better suited for a straight jacket rather than a poker table. All her supporters say in person she is warm and humorous. Since she has been holed up in government for 35 years, I guess her responses are "funny" to those inside the beltway. Maybe one of millions of good reasons not to indulge those who think political positions are a career move. I think civil service has gotten confused with self service. Probably about the same time we stopped teaching civics. I've heard Obama speak about service to the country - all others seem to be relying on their DC experience to fix our woes. How's that been working again?
George Bernard Shaw
I felt embarrassed for Bob Shieffer. As he seems to be the only adult still chaperoning the dance, and as one who has seen a lot in his tenure - I would imagine Hillary's random breakups had him scratching his head.
Funny,
Here we are, as "free people", voting on people who wish to rule us!
And not only that, our "freedom" is defined for us.
"If you're not affected, you're not paying attention."
You mean she was against NAFTA after her husband was for it.
I remember very well a few one-on-one conversations that I had w/ her in the 80s, a thousand years in political time. I especially remember when she shouted at me across the LR equivalent of Market Square shortly after BC announced in '87 that he would not be running for pres in '88. I was on the other side of the pedestrian mall. She called my name, and I was surprised to see it was her who wanted to talk w/ me. So we approached one another and she asked me how I was doing. It was a very relaxed and funny conversation, must have gone one for 20 minutes before I told her that I needed to go ahead and get my vacation plane tickets and get back to the office.
But whether she has a tell, hummmmmmm, probably that laugh. It can be irritating.
I'm w/ Rachel though -- let's get it over w/ and get ready for the fall.
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
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