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Obama and East TennesseeSubmitted by kbarry on Sun, 2008/01/27 - 1:43am.
After the SC results, John Edwards will probably not win the nomination, but his clear voice on what we are fighting for will remain. Prior to the SC results, there was a great negativity to Barack Obama campaign in the local blogs. I would politely ask that you re-look at situation at hand: We have a candidate that has the ability to erase many of the bitter partisan lines that have separated us from our neighbors and family over the past 18 yrs. We have a candidate that can bring large amounts of independent voters and Bush voters over to vote for a Democrat. This would be a devastating blow to Rove's permanent majority plans. It gives us the ability to start talking about a new American majority. We have a candidate that will immediately diffuse some of the hatred aimed at our country caused by our current administration and it's deadly ineptness. We have a candidate that does not spin every single word that comes out of his mouth. We have a candidate that can win in November because of his broad appeal and because is not starting with 50% of the population against him from the start. We have a candidate that is inspiring a whole generation of young people and will save them from witnessing the ugly battles of the baby-boomers which we've been watching since 1992. As much as we admire the Clinton's intelligence and political skills, they cannot do any of the items above. In fact, I think that if Hillary wins the nomination and faces McCain, the Democrats will have blown another great chance to lead the country into a new direction. To throw this all away because of a subjective analysis of a lack of experience, will be an historic mistake. Obama has more legislative experience that Hillary Clinton and more public service experience than Abraham Lincoln when he ran for president. Thank you . . . Kevin B |
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That's just a fact.
Some people say his speeches remind them of MLK.
She's says Barack is the first presidential candidate that reminds her of her father.
I don't think that is exactly what she said, as follows.
It appears to me she thinks Obama is inspiring like her father based on what people tell her about her father.
I would suggest people take caution in comparing the two. There is at least one thing about her father that most of the candidates cannot compare.
JFK voluntarily joined the Navy during WWII. He acted bravely.
Other background, JFK was a US Representative for 6 years and a US Senator for 8 years prior to running for President.
Unlike Obama, who as Kennedy says,
Besides the fact, JFK was raised to be President.
Obama can apparently inspire many people, but can he deliver actions. Obviously, I'm not sold.
Caroline has some memory of her father. I remember the kids playing beneath JFK's desk in the White House. His life is documented in film, tapes, photos and home movies. Caroline knows who her father was. By endorsing Obama and invoking her father in the same statement, it's clear the two are linked in her mind.
I understand people's concern about experience, but I think Obama's experience (his gift really) is in being a leader. He has certainly proved that! He rose out of nowhere to lead a grassroots campaign that is challenging the entrenched political machinery that has had Washington stalled for years. That man can lead! He can bring people together. All the really "experienced" politicians in Washington have done is spend our money abroad, wage an illegal war, suck up to corporations, desconstruct our constitution, diminish our rights and bring shame upon and increased rage toward our nation's image globally.
Hell, considering all of that, taking a chance on a strong leader with a new vision, is an easy and sane choice, not a flippant one.
Sources are saying now that Teddy Kennedy will endorse Obama on Monday. I don't know that his reasoning will be the same as Caroline's but he certainly did know first hand how inspiring his brother was. All in all, as endorsements go, this is pretty huge, if the sources are correct.
his more than two decades of public service, not just in the United States Senate but in Illinois,
The spin begins. She makes it sound as if he's actually served a single Senate term in Washington.
Apparently, the Oprahfication strategy of politics wins: turn your candidate into an uber celebrity, and the media stops asking serious questions.
Thats the title of Caroline Kennedy's NYT editorial endorsing Obama.
Ok bizgirl there is a difference between remind & like..pretty slight..but if you want to parse...cool with me.
If you want to disagree with Ms.Kennedy's comparason to her father..fine.Frankly,I think she is qualified to speak of her own father & the connection she feels with Obama.
As far as not being sold on Obama thats ok with me too.
But Caroline Kennedy wont win this campaign for Obama
HUGE WINS LIKE SC WILL!!
Yeah, over looked the title of the article. Just don't see the comparison, as I mentioned before. More power to her and all Obama fans.
I'm hoping Obama can carry East Tennessee. He will definitely carry West Tennessee, and I imagine he'll lose in Middle Tennessee. Play the Christian card if he must, and certainly the unity talk, and he could win Tennessee.
Somehow it doesn't even seem fair he would have to "play" the Christian card because he IS a very devout Christian. I can't help but imagine his faith and attendance at church would equal that of any of the candidates, except maybe Rev. Huckabee. I've seen the Clinton's at church but usually during special days and it always looks like a photo op. I can't remember either of them making many statements that would reveal they have a faith that permeates their every day lives. It's only because of all the Muslim lies that he needs to be sure he speaks about his faith.
Link...
Interesting.
Also, there's a still a strong rumor mill out there about Obama being a radical Muslim because of his father and step-father. I got a nasty e-mail from someone about it in the last couple of weeks. I very gently pointed out that while it shouldn't matter, Obama is a Christian.
pgs
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
Um, sorry for the blast of cold water, but what about the WSMV poll showing HRC up 15 points in TN makes this likely?
I realize there are a lot of undecideds left in Tennessee, but Edwards and Obama could split them clean down the middle and Hillary still wins. I notice not many of the Feb. 5 states have polling numbers that are all that encouraging for Obama, either (only state he's up decisively is Illinois, unless there's something that hasn't yet made it to electoral-vote.com).
Enjoy the SC win, folks...but just a reminder we're all going to have to work together once there's a nominee.
p.s. Hillary was fantastic in Nashville last night. About 2500+ folks were there, she stayed over an hour, took lots of questions...doesn't seem nearly as tired as one might expect, either.
Play the Christian card if he must,
I thought only Republicans played this card? I thought for Democrats it is all about personal and "private" beliefs?
Or maybe for both sides it's just doing "whatever it takes."
the clintons have never lost here..i think ned & the boyz make clinton the favorite..plus memphis is on ark border & been in nashville twice...memphis today.
delegates are the key & 68 are up...i would like to see obama get 25 or so.edwards will get some
I think we can win a majority of delegates in ga & bama feb 5th
all this "cult of personality" stuff going with both Clinton and Obama.
I like what I hear from John Edwards. I don't agree with everything he says, especially on equality in LGBT issues like marriage. But in general, the man is talking about the things I want to hear my President concern himself with, namely: poverty, health care, and corporate corruption and usurpation of the people's power over government to our detriment.
He talks about getting our troops out of wars that were unnecessary and illegal to begin with, and about rebuilding our reputation with the world as a fair and just nation that DOES NOT TORTURE, which almost 8 years of George Bush policies has nearly destroyed. As far as I'm concerned, I could not care less what celebrity is endorsing who (honestly, if Oprah told you to go jump off the Golden Gate Bridge cause it would be a good change from the old routine would you? Really??)...give me real meat (issues and solutions) to chew on (so to speak), not empty calories of sweet celebrity fluff.
_________________________________________________
"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali
John Edwards is a proud Southerner. Come on Tennessee support a man who will fight for health care for all of us, and will fight for excellence in education, for 4 year olds, and on. Free first year of college with ten hours of work.
Edwards does not support gay marriage. He supports civil unions for partners.
"Your voice will be heard."- JRE Link...
Clinton now realizes that support for Edwards is detrimental to her campaign in the primaries. She even released negative robocalls in SC against Edwards on Friday to try and stem that support. Obviously, her assumption was correct for at least that state.
So let me say to Obama supporters, what you want is to convince Clinton supporters to either vote Edwards or Obama and thus should move the conversation closer to such a goal. :-)
I think your chances of swaying Hillary supporters at this point is, oh, about 0.00%. To judge from the enthusiasm displayed for Hillary in Nashville last night, anyway.
I think Hillary realizes that Edwards is her real opposition. He's going to do a lot better on Super Tuesday than many people think.
I realize this will be an unpopular thing to say, but Obama's SC win doesn't mean much, given the demographics of the state (50% of the Dem voters are black, and he wins by 55%?) How is this not polarized straight down racial lines?
I don't hate Obama as much as many folks here appear to hate Hillary, but he's going to have a hell of a fight in states where blacks comprise much smaller numbers of primary voters.
If you look at the numbers, Obama did well across all racial and gender lines with people under 50, not just the blacks. Whites over 50 split were is weakest draw.
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
(I think I said this in another thread, but thanks Pam...have been busy the last couple days and hadn't had a chance to look at numbers.)
Thinking this is a "race" race is a big mistake. The most amazing thing about him to me is his ability to stir people in a non-verbal way. Here's a man who is one of the most eloquent oraters of our time, yet it is not just his words that have caused many people to get behind him. This is why many detractors use the word "cult". I think it is Obama's character, his core, that excites and inspires trust in people. I saw it in MLK and JFK and in movies about Ghandi and others. It's a centeredness, a strength that goes beyong words. Barack Obama is special. He's no flash in the pan. He's a born leader, so he will lead. I can't even believe the people who are following him now! Republican relatives, redneck relatives, ex-GWB supporters, people who I know are a bit racist really. Somehow the idea of color fades away when people see and hear this man. Given an only choice a lot of white men will vote for Obama over Hillary.
Here's the problem: I'm a big MLK fan, to the point that I've met some of his associates, read most of his memoirs and know many of his speeches, etc. Not word for word, but generally.
Obama has flat-out stolen a lot of material from him, and (here's the ironic part) also from Bill Clinton.
I don't have time right now to do a side by side comparison (gotta make more phone calls for Hillary), but I'd have a lot more respect for the man if I thought his ideas were actually his own. I remember recognizing lots of Dr. King's phrases and turns of phrase when Obama came to Nashville to campaign for Harold Ford.
Obama has flat-out stolen a lot of material from him, and (here's the ironic part) also from Bill Clinton.
And John Edwards, too:
i think they should stick..vote obama..or stay home
I think Edwards voters should vote for whom they think best - stick, vote Obama, vote Clinton. They should NOT stay home.
As for Obama being beaten up on local blogs, come on - this one slants pro-Edwards, then pro-Obama. And Obama's practically been deified on KnoxBlab.
BTW, I'm probably voting for Hillary, but that doesn't mean I'm "negative" toward Obama. He will have my enthusiastic support if he wins the nomination.
P.S. And I'm sorry, but I don't buy this: We have a candidate that has the ability to erase many of the bitter partisan lines that have separated us from our neighbors and family over the past 18 yrs.
I wish I did buy it, and I don't not buy it because of anything about Obama. I think he can inspire many folks, especially those who haven't been part of the political process before.
But he can't perform miracles, and the "bitter partisan lines" aren't going away until and unless both sides want them to.
I'd like to see a President who can reach out to the Republicans, but is tough enough to act accordingly when they bite the hand that reaches out. Which they almost certainly will.
What she said, pretty much. Also, what on earth would make anyone think Bush voters will automatically become Democrats if Obama's the nominee? We really have nothing solid on which to base any ideas that Obama won't face Willie-Horton style attack campaign ads for months on end, further polarizing the electorate.
Not that I think any right-thinking person should use this as an excuse not to support Obama, but I'm imagining we could well have race riots in many cities, should the GOP trot out the kind of ads they've used against black candidates in the past (I know I harp on this endlessly, but the image of the bimbo yammering about Harold at the Playboy Party is just fairly hard for me to shake, personally...)
Oh, so, you don't believe in each voter sticking to their own opinions in our democracy?
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
Look when ever I make calls..talk to folks..or register voters
I try to find out how they will vote.
If they are voting for the candidate I'm for..I'm pushing them to the polls if not no more contact.
I'll also ask em to give me a vote down ballot.
A opposite opinion's fine but I'm not interested in getting those folks to the polls.
A opposite opinion's fine but I'm not interested in getting those folks to the polls
As anti-democratic and exclusionary a statement as one will ever read. Unconscionable, Bill. Simply unconscionable. Do you seriously mean to tell me that you would rather your candidate win by default as all opposition did not vote? You know, Suharto died just the other day....
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
election day registration..present a bank statement..tax return..power bill @ the poll & you get to vote.
Well, maybe I'm an idealitstic, but I want to get everyone to the polls who wants to vote, whoever they are voting for. this isn't one of your poll calls, this is a discussion about the election. Think of your audience.
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
hard to take politics out of elections.
But it is easy to take the democracy out of them, isn't it?
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
metulj...read gotv post on why i do what i do.
im all for these organizations promoting the civic duty of voting.. the league of women voters..naacp..rock the vote..im all for high school voter registration..motor voter registration..election commission education & registration drives.i'm for expanded early voting & really pushed for the site on the ut campus
im really for same day registration are you?..all you need is a tax return..bank statement..or power bill proving you live where you live...then you can vote
Except if I am a John Edwards voter or not terribly impressed by Barack Obama.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
except if im a edwards supporter or not impressed with obama
I would NEVER try to stop anyone from voting
ive been active in campaigns but worked for the election commission in the polls during the election both on election day & during early voting & my ONLY interest is making sure within the confines of the law THAT everybody gets to vote.
When I have been an officer I will bend overbackwards before I would send anybody away.
Simple question...Metulj...are you or are you not for same day voter registration...using a tax return..bank statement..or power bill to prove residence & then allow them to vote???
That is *not* the impression that your initial comment on this topic left.
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
please read that post
if you think thats stopping people from voting..so be it
Also,if thats what you think,i wouldnt venture around candidates phone banks or door knocking or any other campaign function ..because folks are iding voters as to their support & let me tell you they aint callin back those for the other candidate & getting them to the polls.
That wasn't the post that start all this. It was the previous one.
pgs
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
just a smart ass remark to get a little rise out of folks
but still no comments on same day registration..which i think really would increase turn out a ton.
How is this not polarized straight down racial lines?
It looks racial, but to infer that Obama's support is based on race is a mistake that neither Clinton nor Republicans want to make.
I think Obama's support comes from a genuine attraction to him as both a person and a candidate.
The fact that he garnered so much African-American support in South Carolina has more to do with the belief that he is a viable candidate nation wide, rather than racial identification.
Obama has attracted a number of endorsements and followers who are serious public servants. We'll see how he does on Super Tuesday, but I think some people may be surprised.
Thanks Gary. I stand corrected on the demographics...have been working a lot of hours on the campaign and had not looked at the SC results in detail, based my comments on something I heard on the radio.
I still don't think things bode all that well for Obama on Feb. 5, for a few different reasons, but I have to go make more phone calls. Will think on it, try to post later.
If you want a democrat to win the White House in November, then the only way to beat the republicans is to vote for John Edwards. Hillary and Barack will not be able to beat McCain if he is the nominee. Hillary and Barack are both big money campaigns with most of that money coming from big corporations and special interest groups. Edwards money comes from your everyday blue collar and white collar workers. Edwards leads on every issue and then both Hillary and Barack adopt his ideas on the issues. Please check out his website. You can find any info you need on his ideas and stances. You find a lot more info on there than you will on his opponent's sites. Hmmm?
After Bill Clinton's outrageous behavior in South Carolina, topped off with his idiotic Jesse Jackson comment, Hillary is not going be able to trot out her husband on the trail for awhile. In fact, she's now in a dilemma. Whereas before, Democratic voters longed to see Bill Clinton so they could remind themselves of the good old days of the 1990s, now many Democrats see in Bill the sort of backhanded, self-pitying cynicism that drove the Right nuts. It was great when Republicans flew off the handle over it. But now many of us Democrats are starting to see the same thing.
For Hillary Clinton to regain momentum she needs to get close and personal with voters in some key states. She has one big debate in LA where she will likely do very well. She needs to drive home not her experience (because it raises the specter of Bill Clinton which, right now at least, is not the net positive it was a few weeks ago) but her command of policy. And she needs to stick to the economy. Her strength is among working class white women, but she can build out from there by showing her command of economic policy. Ad buys will help on that.
The other big factor is organization. Hillary has a deeper organization in most 2/5 states, including Tennessee. But Obama is nothing if not a superb organizer - even on short notice. The turnout overall in Democratic primaries has been absolutely astounding, so clearly both camps are getting their voters to the polls.
Demographics will probably be a wash at this point. Hillary will win older women and younger single working class white women. Obama will win African Americans, younger educated voters and Independents eligible to vote in Democratic primaries. Latinos favor Hillary, though Obama can neutralize that a bit in California. Ted Kennedy's endorsement will really help to get blue collar Democrats - whites and Latinos - to support Obama.
No telling what will happen. I'm voting tomorrow in the Blount County courthouse for Barack Obama. I've never felt happier about a vote in my entire life.
See this Tennessee Guerilla Women post:
RE:
Bill Clinton was campaigning in Missouri the day after SC.
TGW's post is pretty content-free, to be honest. So the media hates the Clintons. Well, yeah. But that doesn't negate the larger point about Bill Clinton in South Carolina. Was Jim Clybourn a sucker for media bias? How else do you interpret the Jesse Jackson comment? The comment was given completely unprompted. Clinton wants to marginalize Obama as "the black candidate" so he can turn off white voters. It's classic Rove: split the opposition.
Yes, Clinton was campaigning in MO the day after SC. But I have to wonder how much longer he'll be doing that. Or at the very least he'll be campaigning in heavily scripted style, avoiding any off-the-cuff comments to reporters.
Clinton's comments re: Jackson were apparently the last straw that pushed Ted Kennedy to the Obama camp. If Bill doesn't see the damage his behavior has caused his wife's campaign then he's less savvy than we've thought.
Nice try. I think everyone realizes at this point that Obama would love to neutralize the insanely popular Bill Clinton, but it's not going to happen. The fact of the matter is that Obama won SC largely due to the support of blacks, who comprised 50% of the electorate that day. Saying Jackson won due to similar dynamics is the truth. Look it up.
You can call both Clintons racists all day long, and that won't make it true. Folks who remember their putting people like Hazel O'Leary in charge of cabinet agencies - plus other women, Latinos, gays - are going to call you on it every time. Although I think it's a great campaign tactic for Obama, considering I'm not supporting him.
I'm tired of Bill.
A year ago, I couldn't have imagined myself saying this.
What about Obama's big win in Iowa? How about Obama winning in the rural areas of Nevada? How about Obama winning Independents in NH? Your effort to minimize Obama's HUGE victory in SC (55% Obama, 27% Clinton, 18% Edwards) are simply ridiculous.
The Clintons are not racist obviously, but your efforts to minimize the overwelming win in SC simply because many of the voters are black borders on it. You can't minimise Obama's signifigant win in Iowa, close 2nd in NH, or his delegate victory in NV so simply.
Obama has not played the race card but it certainly is a great tactic for Clinton supporters to pretend he has to drive a wedge between whites and blacks.
Obama has more votes total, and more pledged DNC delegates - that is the plain simple truth.
How many campaigns have you actually worked on, Bob? Your calling me "nearly" a racist for trying to minimize an opponent's win is, well, laughable. This is how politics works: You try to find the other person's weaknesses and play on them. How good of a Hillary supporter would I be if I were out here claiming it's great news for Hillary for an opponent to win a state primary?
You've unwittingly just perfectly illustrated a point I've been trying to make on both Knox- and Tennviews for the last several days. Criticisms against Obama aren't always automatically racism, even if they come from a white person. (For the record, I'm white and female, although it would have been hilarious had you called me a racist, while not knowing any of that.) Are you going to the one out there stirring up race riots, when Obama gets the nomination and the Republicans start up with the lazy-shifty-druggie, Willie-Horton-Harold-at-the-Playboy-Party stuff? That will be actual racism, not this tripe you guys are making up. And frankly, I'm worried about Obama's supporters' reaction to it, if this is how they're piling onto the mildest of criticisms from the Clintons and most anyone else.
On the other side of the coin, Obama's trying to pull this "racist" jazz on the Clintons because it's all he has. His voting record is virtually the same as Hillary's. He's taking bales of money from mostly the same interests. What else is he going to do? I don't think it's a winner for him, but you can't blame the guy for trying.
For the record, I don't "need" overly much to minimize SC, because it's a small state with not that many delegates, and Hillary is going to roll right over Obama on Super Tuesday, most likely. I also don't "need" to minimize this Kennedy endorsement, because it doesn't carry that much water with the rank and file. I just think it's funny: Here's Obama trying to run as this outsider, and his supporters are crowing over his gaining an endorsement by a 30-year Senate veteran from one of the most entrenched families in American politics. I'll grant you Obama did great in Iowa, but I think most of what else you have listed there is not all that significant in the scheme of things. Go on and call me a racist again, if you like; you don't know me personally, so you don't know I have absolutely zero to prove on this issue.
Look if one wants to work for large overall turn out..thats fine with me.When I have voluntered for voter registration drives with Rock the Vote or the Election Commission the rules are no personal politics..& thats what I do.I make no political appeals...period.
But when I'm trying to help get a candidate elected.I'm partisan.
I'm never rude or jump your bones if you are not voting for the candidate I'm for.
Just because they are voting another way doesnt mean they are stupid or are crooks.
But I'm sure as hell not going to spend time trying to get that voter to the polls.
I'm going to spend my time getting voters to the polls that ARE FOR the candidate I'm for.
Like Metulj said "you cant eat hope"
But you can count votes & I want the candidate I'm for to get more.
Today I will make calls to the voters I registered last year..go see my neighbors..work my list..remind them early voting starts tomorrow @ the UC & runs thru Thurs 10-8.
Yes I will be pushing voting in the Democratic primary & voting for Obama for president & McKenzie for 1st district commission.
If you are voting in the Republican primary..I wont be back.
If you are voting in the Democratic primary..but not for the candidates I'm for..I'll see ya for the County general this summer.
Pam & Metulj we disagree on the way I roll.
Aint no thing to me...you go your way I'll go mine.
I wonder what spin will be put on this one? No matter what anyone says or what they think of the Kennedys, Ted Kennedy's influence and political skill easily rivals that of the Hillary/ Bill Clinton team. There is no other way to interpret this, but to see it as a yanking back of the reins on the Clinton's smarmy tactics. That last crack about race Bill imbedded in his congratulations to Barack really angered a lot of Democrats.
Seeing Carolyn offer Obama her endorsement was moving. It reminded those of us old enough to remember the sacrifices the Kenndy's made. The crowd and the Kennedys were truly all fired up and ready to go! It was a historic moment and I do think it helps the Obama campaign move into a whole new circle of inclusion. Hispanics know and respect Kennedy. It's obvious a lot of younger people are hungry to know what it feels like to love their country and to be proud of being an idealistic American again. The way so many young people feel so passionate about erasing division and supporting inclusion awes me.
They make me believe the me...me...me..generation might be over.
Ted Kennedy's name is a political punchline -- right alongside Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, and Jane Fonda. (And for the record, no, I don't think those jokes are funny, but I know of plenty of people who do.)
Funny, he never became president with those skills and influence.
I interpret this as your spin on this event - thus you have answered your own question. Wonder no longer.
____________________________
With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
commentary overheard in a local campaign office: "no wonder the Kennedys are endorsing Obama...they've been in on that 'idealism' thing for a long time"...
I don't think it's going to do him much good in the upcoming round (MO, MN, CA, NY)...
In general, I don't think endorsements matter much. They may help with a few folks in targeted places, and of course it gets the candidate a piece on the news, but that's about it.
I think very highly of Caroline Kennedy, but who she endorses matters not to me.
My first choice was Edwards. I'm voting for Hillary. Obama is fine but I don't find him any more inspiring than the rest.
"I'm voting for Hillary."
Thus sealing yourself as a conservative after all.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Thus sealing yourself as a conservative after all.
Oh bull. I'm probably voting for her too, and I'm anything but a conservative.
I like certain things all three candidates - and I have concerns about all of them. So save your breath about telling me all the things wrong with Hillary - I already know.
I've changed my mind about who to vote for about six times, and may yet change it again.
But as of right this minute, this liberal is planning to vote for Hillary.
Can you tell me why? And I don't mean that sarcastically. But in all seriousness how can a informed liberal vote for Hillary?
Ask the spouse. He's essentially a socialist and he said tonight he was probably voting for Hillary.
I will be fine if Obama (or Edwards for that matter) gets the nomination. I admire Obama's ability to inspire people, and Edwards' passion on many issues.
But if you take a really hard look, there's just not much daylight between the three of them on policy. (And please don't inundate me with examples. Of course there are differences. But they're at the margins, not on the big things.)
I just can't get comfortable with Obama's level of experience, and I am comfortable with Hillary's. I know she can deal with Congress, or with the crazy dude in South Korea. I know she's tough.
And I also know she's tough enough to take what the Republicans are going to throw at any Democratic candidate next fall. I'm not sure Obama is.
At least that's my thinking today. As I've said repeatedly, I've changed my mind a # of times, and could change it again.
P.S. Bean - I'm tired of Bill too. And I'm usually quite taken with his charisma.
What she said, mostly, except for the mind-changing. I don't think Edwards is tough enough, either, although I like him fine and will be working on helping anneal him some should he lock up the nomination.
That should be NORTH Korea. It was late last night.
How come I can't edit that post now?
Once a comment has been replied to, the software doesn't let you edit it. It's a feature, not a bug. Or so they tell me.
If it comes down to Hillary or one one of the Republican candidates in November, THAT is how Hillary will get my vote. She won't get it otherwise.
I live in a state where write-ins are mandatory on the ballot and have no threshold. I am writing in Rikki.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
She's a total corporate sock puppet. My only point of admiration of her is that she doesn't bother to hide this fact. I've said it before: There is no substantive difference between her and Bush. None.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Oh bull again.
Yup, Hillary would have invaded Iraq. And appointed Alito to the Supreme Court. And systematically dismantled any semblance of science in government decisions. Etc. etc.
Look, I've got problems with Hillary (her relationship with corporations being a big one), but don't start with the "she's no different from Bush" crap.
I heard enough of that about Al Gore in 2000. And look where it got us.
Hillary is a pretty big hawk.
Agreed. But not big enough to have invaded Iraq.
Seriously - I couldn't even believe Bush was going to do it for the longest time.
Compare and contrast. The only point on which Obama and Clinton have differed on Iraq is the Casey nomination. (Obama was for it, by the way.)
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With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
Yes, but facts are stupid things. Saint Ronnie said so.
Facts have a liberal bias. (Everything I needed to know I learned from Stephen Colbert.)
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With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
Yup, Hillary would have invaded Iraq
That doesn't seem implausible at all.
Hell, I can't think of many Republicans - other than the neocons and Dumbya - who would actually have invaded Iraq.
After 9/11, Congress was just too lily-livered to say no. And a pox on them all for it.
"I heard enough of that about Al Gore in 2000. And look where it got us."
Except in Gore's case it wasn't true and it was perpetuated by people who were pissed at the Clintons, IIRC. Why? Because they are owned by big business. Lock, stock and barrel.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Frankly, this is pretty convenient for you, isn't it, metulj? You don't have to defend anybody, you can just play spoiler, and now you're going to throw your vote away on some write-in.
Knock yourself out, but at least many of us out here are working for something...which counts for a lot, in my book.
Working for something? Here's your somethings:
Clinton:
Continued quagmire in Iraq.
Servile relationships with huge corporate backers
Exact same geopolitical positions as Bush
Archaic domestic agenda
Neoliberal economic agenda
Obama:
Hope?
Edwards:
Lots of hand waving.
Hell, if I am going to vote, I am going to put down the name of someone I respect and who would do a hell of a job, not Clinton, the lapdog of big business, Obama, Reagan without the whimsy, or Edwards, a peckerwood idealist. My vote is for Rikki Hall.
I guess it's better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
KHAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali
But in all seriousness how can a informed liberal vote for Hillary?
Maybe because he/she believes that Clinton is the best chance for the Democrats to make it to the White House?
Even with the Republicans weakened condition, it's a long way to November, and nothing's a done deal yet.
Wow, a Republican gets it before the anti-Clinton Democratic brigade does. Instructive, that.
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With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
I think it's the Democrat's race to lose. And I'm not exactly sure how they could, even with the damage they've done to themselves so far. It would probably take a lot more, and then there's always that thing you never see coming that you have to worry about, or at least try to imagine and prepare for it. Still, the Democrats have the clear advantage.
And yet, they're currently in filibuster of a bill in the Senate where they possess a numerical majority. Stand in awe...
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With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
And yet, they're currently in filibuster of a bill in the Senate where they possess a numerical majority.
I was referring to presidential politics. It's way too late to analyze Congressional politics.
Politics have a fractal nature.
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With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
Once again I ask how can a Liberal vote for Hillary? I can understand why a conservative might, or a centerist, or a yellow dog dem. But for someone that considers themself a liberal what about her is appealing over Obama or Edwards or none of the above?
Yes, let's.
I answered you above.
And then let's stop, unless you can find a way to discuss this w/o insulting my liberal credentials.
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