Because it's against Catholic theology, Baptist will no longer perform tubal ligations, what we commonly call getting tubes tied. What really ticks me off is that Baptist said that it was a "negligible" percentage of their business last year. Only 9 percent of women who gave birth were sterilized at the same time. Yeah, but to that 9 percent it was important.
Meanwhile, the Southeastern Center for Fertility and Reproductive Surgery as well as the National Embryo Donation Center will vacate their space at Baptist Hospital for Women when their lease expires in October because their services also go against Roman Catholic doctrine.
Submitted by Lisa Starbuck on Fri, 2008/01/25 - 1:47am.
Every woman in Knoxville ought to be emailed the News-Sentinel story about this outrageous practice. I had no idea that St. Mary's prohibited tubal ligations, and now that I do know, I will never use that hospital again.
Not that I agree with it, but St Mary's/Mercy is a faith based hospital so they have the right to pick and choose what they will and wont perform. They have had this policy in place for many years...dont act so surprised. If it hasnt been that big of a deal for women to go elsewhere for a tubal ligation during the past (I cant recall any KNS headlines or blogs talking about it prior to this) it wont be any different in the future.
I tend to agree with you, Justin. I had no idea this was St. Mary's policy. It would seem logical since they now own "Baptist" they will carry forward their policies. Will Baptist remain "Baptist"? Probably for name recognition, but maybe a slow transition to a new name. Sort of like Covenant and Fort Sanders.
Luckily, birthing babies is probably not normally an emergency procedure and mothers to be can pick their hospital ahead of time, if they are also wanting a tubal. Kind of sad that Baptist is changing. They've been a big part of Knoxville. For many, it was in the past the only hospital they would choose to go to for inpatient stays.
Apparently North Knoxvillians have always had to drive a distance to not go to St. Mary's and now so will South Knoxvillians, although UT Hospital is not too far for SoKno.
The structure, the vehicles, the cleaning procedures, the monitoring equip, the medical training, the ventilation system, the lighting, even the uniforms/clothing worn, all of them are based on science NOT religion. Agree with them or not, it is your choice and your right but, don't bother trying to piss on my leg and convince me it is raining. You want faith based medical care? Head for the little country snake-handling church. I expect science when I go into a hospital.
CAFKIA
p.s. My mom was a nurse at St. Mary's for 30 or more years. I have met and interacted with several of the employees there, nuns included.
Submitted by RayCapps on Fri, 2008/01/25 - 2:56pm.
I'm not sure I've ever done more than lurk on this site before, and maybe I'm just less tolerant than normal today, but this time I'm compelled to write. I happen to be pro-choice, pro-birth control and an agnostic at best when it comes to there being a diety or dieties. However, some of this stuff seems to jump more than a little overboard.
Mercy, being owned by the Roman Catholic Church, refuses to perform elective surgeries of any sort that run contrary to their faith. There are, it would seem, also individual pharmacists out there refusing to fill prescriptions that run counter to their faith. That's fine by me. Litton's and Chick-Fil-A want to be closed on Sundays, and I'm cool with that, too. An organization or individual has the right to refuse any business it doesn't want or finds morally objectionable. No matter how illogical I happen to view their belief in hocus pocus stuff, I offer them at least grudging respect for putting their principles above the almighty dollar for once.
However, it's still a relatively free country, and if you happen to find their decision sufficiently objectionable, then Lisa Starbuck offers the correct response. Refuse to do business with them. Heck, go one step further and organize a boycott. However, some of these comments seem to be coming awfully close to suggesting they should have no right to refuse such business, and I do have a problem with that. That's on the wrong side of the separation of church and state, and it's on the wrong side of freedom of choice. Maybe I'm the last person left alive who feels this way, but I think the separation of church and state has to run both ways. I don't want the Catholic Church all up in my business, and I think they should have the reasonable expectation of me staying out of theirs. St. Mary's is a Catholic hospital. Hilariously enough, Baptist is also a Catholic hospital now. And once you cross their threshold, you're on Catholic turf. You can't demand that an organization or individual violate the tenants of their faith and then run and hide behind separation of church and state on gay marriage or prayer in schools. Well you could, but you'd be a hypocrite.
Wow, that was cathartic. Now I understand why people want to spout their opinions even though there's no way they'll change anyone's already made up mind. It feels pretty good.
Just try to get out of that hospital bill with something biblical. Pay them with a tithe for a minute or, expect them to forgive your debt 70x7 times. Ask them what would Jesus charge. Do that faith based stuff and then have faith that you will hear from their lawyers and that you will be unwelcome next time around.
Submitted by gonzone on Fri, 2008/01/25 - 10:53am.
Or Catholists?
If they're all about saving the soul, as this announcement would indicate, then why the hell wouldn't they just allow the body to expire?
Why even practice medicine, unless it is only to fill the coffers?
Does Eric Rudolph sit on the Board of Directors?
I know he was really pissed about white women not having enough babies.
The old brown people are scary bit and all that.
Recently over 6 billion and soon to be 7 billion people on a planet that can reasonably sustain 2 billion. What are they thinking? I can't find anything about tubal ligation in my Bible! And that "be fruitful and multiply" thing has been way overdone as my above numbers indicate.
Submitted by CathyMcCaughan on Fri, 2008/01/25 - 12:15pm.
Unless you have one of the few insurance policies that allows the birthing center, St. Mary's is the best place in town to have a baby. The nun visiting your room a few hours after delivery to give a pep talk on having MORE children is funny. Statistically, cesareans and scheduled births are huge numbers in this state, but that doesn't mean insurance allows you to hospital shop. It sounds conspiracy theory, tinfoil hat paranoid, but with pharmacists allowed to refuse birth control scripts, reproductive rights ARE being manipulated by the religious right.
I'm set to have my first baby at St. Mary's in a few months. My OB, who practices from St. Mary's Tower, offers birth control of all types in her office. Isn't the pill also against Catholic doctrine? I wonder how the hospital rationalizes that one.
Also, I wonder what their policy is for a vasectomy.
Submitted by Carole Borges on Fri, 2008/01/25 - 1:16pm.
We need more birth control, not less. Over population is killing our planet. I'm speechless that anyone would think that a woman having her tubes tied is a bad thing. Mercy me! Are we back in the Dark Ages? Should I dust off my chastity belt?
Submitted by Hildegard on Fri, 2008/01/25 - 2:29pm.
The only thing that surprises me is that this surprises anybody. The Catholic Church's policies have been consistent in these areas, and any institution it controls will tow the line. Like it or not. But the Church has always had an open door policy: if you don't like it, leave. They'll stay in business.
Submitted by Pam Strickland on Fri, 2008/01/25 - 4:42pm.
This has produced more, and more interesting, discussion than I anticipated when I found it in my insomniatic state early this morning.
Yes, as a Catholic hospital, they have a right to follow what they believe. I think I found it interesting because Baptist is now a Catholic hospital. Baptists are considered conservative yet welcomed both tubes being tied and childless couple seeking embryos to adopt. And, now they can't do that because of the merger with St. Mary's. It seems to me if the two hospitals are keeping their previous names, that they could allow them to keep certain previous policies.
The article did say that it would allow tubal ligation if future pregnancy would endanger the woman's life. Kind of like allow abortion only in cases of rape or incest.
It just seems to me that tying tubes and adopting embryons are very, very personal questions that good Christians could reach different conclusions regarding.
And, then there is the question about insurance reimbursement. It's my understanding that these days a tubal ligation isn't a very big deal, but isn't it less expensive if done at the time of a delivery? And what if the insurance company doesn't recognize any other hospital in town? Is there an exception for procedures not done by the insured facilities.
I've heard good things about birthing babies at St. Mary's. Family members have used Parkwest for births and been very happy. Although, one would have preferred to use Baptist because of the religion thing.
And, me, I'm past the stage of birthing or needing tubes tyed. It still doesn't make complete sense to me though.
pgs
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
Every woman in Knoxville ought to be emailed the News-Sentinel story about this outrageous practice. I had no idea that St. Mary's prohibited tubal ligations, and now that I do know, I will never use that hospital again.
Not that I agree with it, but St Mary's/Mercy is a faith based hospital so they have the right to pick and choose what they will and wont perform. They have had this policy in place for many years...dont act so surprised. If it hasnt been that big of a deal for women to go elsewhere for a tubal ligation during the past (I cant recall any KNS headlines or blogs talking about it prior to this) it wont be any different in the future.
I tend to agree with you, Justin. I had no idea this was St. Mary's policy. It would seem logical since they now own "Baptist" they will carry forward their policies. Will Baptist remain "Baptist"? Probably for name recognition, but maybe a slow transition to a new name. Sort of like Covenant and Fort Sanders.
Luckily, birthing babies is probably not normally an emergency procedure and mothers to be can pick their hospital ahead of time, if they are also wanting a tubal. Kind of sad that Baptist is changing. They've been a big part of Knoxville. For many, it was in the past the only hospital they would choose to go to for inpatient stays.
Apparently North Knoxvillians have always had to drive a distance to not go to St. Mary's and now so will South Knoxvillians, although UT Hospital is not too far for SoKno.
Will Baptist Hospital some day be condos?
Baptist and St. Mary's already have a new name:
Mercy Health Partners
Link...
Thanks for the link.
I.e., Baptist Hospital of East Tennessee
Thus the signs won't change, I suppose.
I don't know how, but I substituted "take the new name" in place of "retain their current names" when I read that.
The structure, the vehicles, the cleaning procedures, the monitoring equip, the medical training, the ventilation system, the lighting, even the uniforms/clothing worn, all of them are based on science NOT religion. Agree with them or not, it is your choice and your right but, don't bother trying to piss on my leg and convince me it is raining. You want faith based medical care? Head for the little country snake-handling church. I expect science when I go into a hospital.
CAFKIA
p.s. My mom was a nurse at St. Mary's for 30 or more years. I have met and interacted with several of the employees there, nuns included.
-----------------------------------------------------------
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo
I'm not sure I've ever done more than lurk on this site before, and maybe I'm just less tolerant than normal today, but this time I'm compelled to write. I happen to be pro-choice, pro-birth control and an agnostic at best when it comes to there being a diety or dieties. However, some of this stuff seems to jump more than a little overboard.
Mercy, being owned by the Roman Catholic Church, refuses to perform elective surgeries of any sort that run contrary to their faith. There are, it would seem, also individual pharmacists out there refusing to fill prescriptions that run counter to their faith. That's fine by me. Litton's and Chick-Fil-A want to be closed on Sundays, and I'm cool with that, too. An organization or individual has the right to refuse any business it doesn't want or finds morally objectionable. No matter how illogical I happen to view their belief in hocus pocus stuff, I offer them at least grudging respect for putting their principles above the almighty dollar for once.
However, it's still a relatively free country, and if you happen to find their decision sufficiently objectionable, then Lisa Starbuck offers the correct response. Refuse to do business with them. Heck, go one step further and organize a boycott. However, some of these comments seem to be coming awfully close to suggesting they should have no right to refuse such business, and I do have a problem with that. That's on the wrong side of the separation of church and state, and it's on the wrong side of freedom of choice. Maybe I'm the last person left alive who feels this way, but I think the separation of church and state has to run both ways. I don't want the Catholic Church all up in my business, and I think they should have the reasonable expectation of me staying out of theirs. St. Mary's is a Catholic hospital. Hilariously enough, Baptist is also a Catholic hospital now. And once you cross their threshold, you're on Catholic turf. You can't demand that an organization or individual violate the tenants of their faith and then run and hide behind separation of church and state on gay marriage or prayer in schools. Well you could, but you'd be a hypocrite.
Wow, that was cathartic. Now I understand why people want to spout their opinions even though there's no way they'll change anyone's already made up mind. It feels pretty good.
Just try to get out of that hospital bill with something biblical. Pay them with a tithe for a minute or, expect them to forgive your debt 70x7 times. Ask them what would Jesus charge. Do that faith based stuff and then have faith that you will hear from their lawyers and that you will be unwelcome next time around.
Faith based hospital my ass.
-----------------------------------------------------------
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo
Or Catholists?
If they're all about saving the soul, as this announcement would indicate, then why the hell wouldn't they just allow the body to expire?
Why even practice medicine, unless it is only to fill the coffers?
Does Eric Rudolph sit on the Board of Directors?
I know he was really pissed about white women not having enough babies.
The old brown people are scary bit and all that.
Recently over 6 billion and soon to be 7 billion people on a planet that can reasonably sustain 2 billion. What are they thinking? I can't find anything about tubal ligation in my Bible! And that "be fruitful and multiply" thing has been way overdone as my above numbers indicate.
Choice is just a concept without scientists willing to challenge cultural norms. Everyone got your tickets to Galileo? -- s.
Unless you have one of the few insurance policies that allows the birthing center, St. Mary's is the best place in town to have a baby. The nun visiting your room a few hours after delivery to give a pep talk on having MORE children is funny. Statistically, cesareans and scheduled births are huge numbers in this state, but that doesn't mean insurance allows you to hospital shop. It sounds conspiracy theory, tinfoil hat paranoid, but with pharmacists allowed to refuse birth control scripts, reproductive rights ARE being manipulated by the religious right.
I'm set to have my first baby at St. Mary's in a few months. My OB, who practices from St. Mary's Tower, offers birth control of all types in her office. Isn't the pill also against Catholic doctrine? I wonder how the hospital rationalizes that one.
Also, I wonder what their policy is for a vasectomy.
We need more birth control, not less. Over population is killing our planet. I'm speechless that anyone would think that a woman having her tubes tied is a bad thing. Mercy me! Are we back in the Dark Ages? Should I dust off my chastity belt?
The only thing that surprises me is that this surprises anybody. The Catholic Church's policies have been consistent in these areas, and any institution it controls will tow the line. Like it or not. But the Church has always had an open door policy: if you don't like it, leave. They'll stay in business.
Just wondering - does St. Mary's allow vastectomies?
For what it's worth, someone on the News-Sentinel site said they called and were told vastectomies were ok. Consider the source, however.
This has produced more, and more interesting, discussion than I anticipated when I found it in my insomniatic state early this morning.
Yes, as a Catholic hospital, they have a right to follow what they believe. I think I found it interesting because Baptist is now a Catholic hospital. Baptists are considered conservative yet welcomed both tubes being tied and childless couple seeking embryos to adopt. And, now they can't do that because of the merger with St. Mary's. It seems to me if the two hospitals are keeping their previous names, that they could allow them to keep certain previous policies.
The article did say that it would allow tubal ligation if future pregnancy would endanger the woman's life. Kind of like allow abortion only in cases of rape or incest.
It just seems to me that tying tubes and adopting embryons are very, very personal questions that good Christians could reach different conclusions regarding.
And, then there is the question about insurance reimbursement. It's my understanding that these days a tubal ligation isn't a very big deal, but isn't it less expensive if done at the time of a delivery? And what if the insurance company doesn't recognize any other hospital in town? Is there an exception for procedures not done by the insured facilities.
I've heard good things about birthing babies at St. Mary's. Family members have used Parkwest for births and been very happy. Although, one would have preferred to use Baptist because of the religion thing.
And, me, I'm past the stage of birthing or needing tubes tyed. It still doesn't make complete sense to me though.
pgs
Pam Strickland
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut
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