Thu
Aug 9 2007
10:53 am
By: Carole Borges
(Photo from the City of Knoxville website)
It looks kind of cheesy if you ask me. The red neon letters seemed to clash with the color of the building. It might look better at night.
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I agree
I have to say that I am extremely disappointed not only with the marquis, but with the overall cheesy look of the new theatre. Instead of building something that would fit in with the older downtown architecture (and might be suitable for another use if/when the theatre fails), they built something that looks like it belongs at Turkey Creek instead. Or maybe Pigeon Forge.
The final straw of cheesiness came with the fake brick facade on the little alleyway opening and the painted-over concrete blocks that make up the facade of the adjacent retail space. Couldn't they have done something that would have matched up with the old S&W a little more? Couldn't they have at least stuccoed the blocks before painting them?
On the positive side, it does match up well with the former plywood fake windows and other improvements that the county had made to the properties.
Yes, a definite Turkey Creek
Yes, a definite Turkey Creek feel. I was a little surprised by that.
Will Knoxville's rehab projects look good 20 years from now?
I take it Turkey Creek is the model for hideous and garish? I haven't been out there because I'm kind of central-city-centric, not liking to drive through traffic to get to all the really cool stuff I always hear about out West. Personally, I've always disliked the way modern architects have designed buildings and homes that look like something from a movie set. It gives you a flat one-dimensional feeling, as if you might walk around to the rear of the buildings and find nothing but scaffolding.
Being in a dormant state for so long, Knoxville appears to have avoided the dreadful types of "modern" downtown buildings that looked like giant ships complete with portlights or big stacks of Leggo blocks made from concrete, the aptly named Brutalism school which worshiped grey cement slabs and flaunted the guts of buildings on their exterior.
I hope the downtown design guidelines will help avoid creating a Gay street that is so uniformly nostalgic it looks like one of those old fashioned streets you can walk down in a museum. I think sections of a city look nice done in a style that is authentically old, but new buildings utilizing contemporary ideas and materials can be compatible with traditional ones if the whole ambience of the surrounding area is taken into account.
I like the KMA building for instance because it doesn't intrude on the downtown Knoxville skyline. With its smooth white exterior it appears kind of cold at first, but the gardens and large windows warm it up. I like the way it stretches across the landscape giving it an almost Japanese sedateness.
The facade of the new theater wants to look like something out of the past, but when the materials of the past aren't used, the lavish and expensive woods, the dazzling neon and flashing bulbs on signs, the elegant marble facades complete with gorgeous archetectural elements, the whole thing starts to look cheap.
Maybe because we live in a throw away society we've become so superficial and external, we don't care about things like longevity anymore?
Not to bash hard-working architects, but did the designers of the new theater consider what that facade will look like 20 years in the future? Did they consider how well the materials they used might hold up? If not the new theater's design might not be a problem a few years down the road for those who dislike it. A few decades from now that facade might not even be there.
Here's a link to a discussion
Here's a link about this very topic we had on the Blab recently. Bill Lyons adds some very insightful comments.
(link...)
Better than Victor's Exterior Decorating...
Well...at least its better than the surreal "Our Town" set that Victor had placed over all of the boarded-up windows along Gay; maybe that's what the US Embassy in Poland has now?
Except that
Except that this is supposed to be a permanent structure. "Our Town" was indeed bizarre, but the new theatre seems to try to turn this surreal townscape into some kind of reality.
To me, this is a troublesome trend in downtown. The horrible new facade they put on the Home Federal building (stand below that one and look up, and the bricks aren't even straight. If you're going to screw something up, at least do a good job of it.) looks like some kind of computer-generated Hollywood prop. Batman in Knoxville.
The new theatre looks more like some kind of pre-computer-generated prop. Maybe more like the comic book version of Batman instead of the hi-tech movie version.
OK, we've had "Rocket Boys" and other films done downtown, but the "Ennesse" looked a heck of a lot more real than what Regal has done. Seems like the city would have had a bit more input into Regal's design built into the contract somewhere. Or maybe the contract for "Our Town" was merely extended for the new theatre.
Seems like the city would
Seems like the city would have had a bit more input into Regal's design built into the contract somewhere.
Sure does.
Looks OK to me
As long as it doesn't have a giant glow-at-night cross on top of it, it's OK with me.
Or any orange-and-white checkerboard patterns.
Historic Downtown
It looks low budget, but when a good movie is on, I'll still drive 15 miles to enjoy historic downtown. As far as the city controlling the design of buildings, are there any city codes to enforce building design?
As downtown continues to grow, someone will want to build a cheep looking business with flashing signs, bright glaring lights, and all the usual Pigeon Forge decorations. Does Knoxville have a downtown zone, with codes to enforce and maintain the historic look?
Design Guidelines
Here is a little background to help with this one. One of the recommendations of the Crandall Arambula (CA). study for downtown was the implementation of downtown design guidelines. The mayor appointed a downtown advisory board to take a hard look at implementation of this and other suggestions/recommendations from the CA report. This group, after a series of public meetings, recommended that we move to implement design guidelines in its Downtown Improvement Strategy report. (link...) For public comments on this process see (link...)
The Policy Development Department and MPC staff undertook a months long public process to develop these guidelines, including a number of meetings and workshops. (link...) After a lot of discussion, including a some strong concerns expressed by those who own and develop properties downtown, City Council approved a new downtown zone with applicable design guidelines. These are now in effect. This was a balancing act, as are most efforts. Many were concerned that the city not dictate rigid architectural viewpoints that would lead to a sameness in design and stifle creativity. On the other hand it was very important to deal with a live streetscape and the scale of buildings. We looked a cities all over the country, involved stakeholders downtown, as well as the general public, many of whom stepped in to provide a lot of help. For details...
(link...)
(link...)
It's my understanding that
It's my understanding that the guidelines were not effect when the theater was was started and so didn't apply to it. Bill, please correct me if that's wrong.
Rachel, that is correct.
Rachel, that is correct. They are in effect now.
Downtown Design Guidelines
So, since the downtown design guidelines were not in place, we should not have expected a theater that better fits between the surrounding buildings and that is more representative of downtown Knoxville. As Bizgirl mentions, since it is a city built and owned building you would have thought the city would have had a little more input into the exterior design. Apparently, the city's facade improvement program, which was in place before the theater was designed, does not apply to city built buildings.
It would have been nice if
It would have been nice if they had done something more compatible with the S&W next door. (But I'm sure most everyone would agree that it was great they were at least able to save it).
I just hope they aren't planning to "upgrade" the S&W to be "compatible" with the theater.
What's the latest on the S&W, anyway?
S&W
The S&W and the other buildings have been sold to a group (the "they" in this case) headed by John Craig. He is marketing the spaces. Since John is a major supporter of Knox Heritage he is most certainly not going to anything other than restore the buildings. John has a true love for restoration and will do a great job. The 500 block buildings were in precarious shape, as you can imagine, and one of the major engineering and design challenges was to keep them standing while a new, common roof and a common wall was constructed for the theater.
Thanks for the update,
Thanks for the update, Bill.
I remember about John Craig now. Was he the one who came in at the last minute with some design and financing ideas that made it possible to save the S&W?
(Yes sorry about the "they" which is sloppy writing, but I've had a busy week and I'm tired and lazy!)
Cinema S&W solution background
Yes, John was involved, not so much in the financing solution to the increased cost, which was itself quite an ordeal, but more on the design end. In addition, his architect on the project, Faris Eid, played a very major role in the design solution when the city suspended the original plan to take a look at saving the structures and creating a theater that would work. Faris, as the representative of Knox Heritage worked with folks from the city and Regal to fit the theater in front and around the back of the existing buildings and to provide a pass through to the State St. Garage. Faris did a ton of great, quality work pro-bono to help come up with a design that worked. He patiently worked through dozens of drafts, meetings, discussions, and redrafts. The way people from outside government stepped up to work with those of us in government to help find a solution was very heartening. Folks who do that sort of thing never get enough credit. I hope his contribution isn't forgotten, at least any time soon. His MPC excellence award is worth a look.
(link...)
John Craig is a current VP
John Craig is a current VP of Knox Heritage. He's also an all-around good guy (and no, we aren't related!).
I'm thrilled to have the theater, although count me among those not so thrilled with its look. The spouse in particular hates the painted concrete block on the retail space to the north of the theater. It does look pretty cheap.
I haven't seen the theater
I haven't seen the theater since the outside was finished, but it's beginning to sound as if the term Knoxvegas may become a suitable name for downtown.
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
I said cheesy, but it could be worse
The design of the sign wasn't that bad. Only a little skimpy with the lights. At least it was echoing the big one on the Tennessee Theater. I much prefer what's there to a classic shopping center marquee.
Raise your hands, how many
Raise your hands, how many folks here ever went to a movie at the original Riviera?
Or went down to look at the ruins when it burned?
Or had a meal at the S&W?
Or were members of the Chipmunk Club, where kids got into the Tennessee Theater for free on Sat. mornings with an empty Tom's Potato Chips bag (I believe it was)?
I score 3 out of 4. Didn't
I score 3 out of 4. Didn't live here as a child, so I missed the Chipmunk Club.
Heck, I'll go you one better
Heck, I'll go you one better -- I was a member of the Bugs Bunny Club at the Bijou (actually, all you had to do to be a member was show up on Saturday morning). A woman named Irene Hayes Hodges hosted it, and the theme song was set to the tune of Sioux City Sue. They had talent contests that were judged by audience reaction, and the parents of the contestants stood around at the entrance and handed out bags of candy as bribes.
I saw plenty o' movies at the Riviera (pronounced Re-VEER-a), but interestingly (to me, anyhow), I have absolutely no recollection of the interior of the place. That's probably because it was so nondescript.
OTOH, I loved the Tennessee, and have very clear memories of sitting there looking up at that ornate ceiling and hanging out in the posh ladies' room. I went on my first real car date there to see a "Gone With the Wind" revival.
p.s. It was my grandparents who took me to all these places, and we used to eat at the S&W every time we went to town. I always had the same thing: roast beef, mashed potatoes, Jello cubes, a blueberry muffin and strawberry shortcake. Slim would always carry our trays, and he could handle mine, my brother's and my grandparents' -- all four of them -- at once! What a great guy he was. I took my grandmother there on the last day it was open, in August 1981. When she said good-bye to Slim, it made me cry. She only lived about a year after that.
I loved that mural in the front room of the farm family running to the storm cellar in the face of an approaching tornado, although i wondered what happened to the wild-eyed and scared looking horses and cows who were being left to fend for themselves.
And that beautiful stairway above the organ....
Sigh
I loved that mural in the
I loved that mural in the front room of the farm family running to the storm cellar in the face of an approaching tornado
Wow, I had forgotten that. I think it gave me nightmares. (Or maybe it was the Wizard of Oz.)
Missed the fire
I was living out of town when the Riviera burned, but I remember going to the S&W back when my Mom was in Toast Mistress (don't ask, we weren't the usual Toast Master/Mistress type family, but there you go). Anyway, the meetings were always upstairs, so we got to walk up that wonderful staircase every time we went. I hope they manage to save it.
And the Chipmunk club was a zoo, let me tell you.
Design
I think the theatre adds some excitement and I like it. As for cheesiness, I'm still amazed at the Cumberland House Hotel. With all the variances they got along with Peyton Manning's investment, the best they could do was a giant house trailer.
Raise your hands, how many
Raise your hands, how many folks here ever went to a movie at the original Riviera? Hand Up
Or went down to look at the ruins when it burned? Hand up
Or had a meal at the S&W? Hand up -- many, many meals.
Or, who remember The Garden where you got a meat and three plus a toss salad for $1.07 before tax.
Or were members of the Chipmunk Club, where kids got into the Tennessee Theater for free on Sat. mornings with an empty Tom's Potato Chips bag (I believe it was)?
They probably would not have allowed me in with you young'ns.
Or were members of the
Or were members of the Chipmunk Club, where kids got into the Tennessee Theater for free on Sat. mornings with an empty Tom's Potato Chips bag (I believe it was)?
I Definitely remember getting in with Tom's Potato Chip bags. I don't remember many of the movies, but I sure remember the Pink Panther cartoons shown before them. About the only movie I remember seeing was Pinocchio.
Can't recall going to S&W very often but I frequently visited the Blue Circle.
While roaming the alleyways as a mischievous youth downtown. I can remember getting the shock of my life when a homeless guy told me that he didn't believe in God. I was dumbfounded! At that time the concept had never even crossed my mind.
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
JaHu, I used to love to
JaHu, I used to love to watch one of the Mall Men (as Jim Dykes called them) who would sit at the Union Avenue end of Market Square and heckle the street preachers.
He'd say "I'm gonna turn you in for using the Lord for illegal purposes!"
Thanks for getting the Chipmonks chirping Stan...
I'm jealous. I wish I had been in Knoxville during those days. I've really enjoyed these memories.
Raised Hand
Seen several movies at the Riviera and was downtown with my parents, on the Sunday the Rivera burned. I remember Ray Oglesby (local politician), who was in the theater when the fire started, being interviewed by the media. Made it to the Tennessee several times, but only once or twice for the Chipmunk Club.
Had a few meals at the S&W, and several at the Garden. There also was a Charbroiled Steak restaurant just west of the Tennessee Theater, I think on Clinch Ave, it was good place to eat.
"It looks kind of cheesy if
"It looks kind of cheesy if you ask me. The red neon letters seemed to clash with the color of the building. It might look better at night."
Carole,
Thanks for posting the picture, but, you are too kind! Cheesy??? Hideous is what comes to mind to me. Looks like Disneyland on crack. Seems it would be a better fit in Pigeon Forge and not around buildings built during the turn of the century.
"I used to love to watch one of the Mall Men (as Jim Dykes called them) who would sit at the Union Avenue end of Market Square and heckle the street preachers."
Betty,
I always felt that corner Preachers were pretty scary fellows. I'm not certain but I believe they have to do this to become ordained. I always felt teaching was a much better way to get a point across than preaching. But then you would have to know what you were teaching!
Jack
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
Of the Riviera & Tennessee
I too remember the Riviera and going to see the remains when it burned...with the exception of the Family Drive-in and the Twin Aire Drive-in (Broadway & Clinton Hwy respectively), every movie I had seen before my teenage years was a Tennessee or Riviera experience...with the exception of "Patton" which I saw at "The Park" on Magnolia. Like others, my only interior recollection was of "The Tennessee". My father always liked to tell the story of my first glimpse of the interior of the Tennessee...having only been to drive-in movies and upon entering the large Tennessee lobby, I asked if it (The Tennessee) had seats.
movie theaters for the ages
I could be wrong, but I would quess that movie theaters are not built to last for generations anywhere. Remember the Capri in Bearden? Wasn't it sort of a prefab corrogated metal clad structure? Although, something else did take it over after it was sold (Bennett's?).
I bet they figure the lifespan of a movie theater in 5 or ten year increments depending on whether it is paying for itself or not.
I'd say so. I can think of a
I'd say so. I can think of a few with short life spans, the one on North Peters where Dick's is now (extremely short, IIRC), and the Farragut theater. There was a theater behind the McDonalds on Cedar Bluff, but I can't recall the lifespan. Downtown West is about the oldest still operating with first run movies I can think of.
Remember the last 'first
Remember the last 'first run' movie you saw at the Tennessee? Mine was The Godfather, first row center of the balcony.
I also remember their screenings of locally-shot movies such as The Fool Killer and All the Way Home.
Our pastor's brother, John Cullum, an Island Home boy, was in All the Way Home and he was so proud of his relatively small part.
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Movie theaters for the ages
The Capri was built about fourty years ago, unsure what kind of condition the building is in today. I have noticed that buildings ten to fifteen years old are being demolished and replaced.
Maybe we should fingure out how the Mayans did it?
Somehow buildings that only last a few years seem like planned obsolesence. The Mayan pyramids were built centuries ago and they still look pretty darn good. They were clay and stone I believe, not particle board or plywood though. No access I guess to Home Depot or Lowe's.
Well, its not that they
Well, its not that they couldn't build it like a pyramid, but a movie theater is sort of risky.
The Mayan pyramids were
The Mayan pyramids were built centuries ago and they still look pretty darn good.
I guarantee you there were no shortage of people in downtown Teotihuacan who complained that they didn't aesthetically mesh with the venerable and beloved Iguana-On-A-Stick building facade next door.
I'd like to think
not....
The Capri (Knoxville's
The Capri (Knoxville's Rocking Chair Theater) is now Bennett Galleries.
The Downtown Cinema looks ok. It's accross from my office, so I've seen it daily from a hole to finshed. It's not a theater building built for the ages or archetectural accolades. It's modern building, built for movies. It looks a lot better than the one in downtown Chattanooga. We have the Tennessee and Bijou. The Downtown Cinema is a great addition. I hope it's successful.
I scored 3 of 4 on the quiz. I watched many a movie at the Tennessee (and the Park, River Breeze, Twin Aire and Westown, the original round one, and the Fox). We lived pretty far out, so Saturday matinees downtown would have been a bit of a trip. I'm not even sure they had the Chipmunk Club when I would have been the right age.
>Westown, the original round
>Westown, the original round one
Speaking of which, annoyed the crap out of me how they didn't adjust the angle of the screens once they split into into a duplex. Depending on which theater you were in, either the left or right hand side of the screen was slightly out of focus.
Grew up around Nashville, but I did see "The Right Stuff" at the Capri, in glorious 70mm.
The Capri was where I first
The Capri was where I first saw 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Oh, and I wish I still had that pea-green Nehru Jacket although there would be no way I could ever get into it again.
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first movie
I don't know if my family really went along with the idea that we shouldn't see movies in theaters or if the reality of having seven children caused my parents not to take us. I grew up fundamentalist Baptist, so it could have been either one.
The first time I ever set foot in a theater I was probably seventeen and was on a date. My younger brother was with us. I drove an older brother's Grand Am. We saw Men at Work, Sheen and Estevez, not especially memorable. And I don't even remember what theater it was, but it was near Southlake Mall in Morrow, GA. It was probably the first time in my life I'd seen a movie while it could still be considered new.
Eh...it is a little weird
Eh...it is a little weird looking but I am willing to overlook the style for the substance. I walked past it on my way to the brew pub and think it looks better in person. I personally am going to patronize it almost exclusively over other theaters.
"The Capri was built about
"The Capri was built about forty years ago, unsure what kind of condition the building is in today."
The Capri building is still in good shape but it is no longer a movie theater. It's now Bennett Gallery. I saw a few movies towards the end of its run as a theater. The large auditorium (with the vast, curved screen for 70mm presentations) had been divided in half (with half a screen for each room) and the small auditorium was intact.
In 1991 my UT architecture students designed innovative cinemas for both the Capri and Riviera sites. I have these documented on slides and, given an invite from the local AIA, would be happy to show these and other student projects designed between 1984-1995.