Sat
Jul 21 2007
01:07 pm
By: Sandra Clark

When WBIR-TV tried to contact Cynthia Finch about her frequent travels on the county's dime to sites of sorority events, she was apparently out of town on vacation.

Their story is at (link...)

The county's response is lame. Sure, we have a great health department. Credit the director, Mark Jones. We have a great library system. Credit the staff, previous director Patricia Watson and the library board led by Charles Davenport.

Finch and her staff provide a layer of bureaucracy that we've never had before and don't need now.

Is anyone else out there mad about this? -- s.

Tess's picture

Well, yes.

I saw the television news report about her activities this morning. One of the commissioners (forget which one) said that there were numerous charges on her p-card that were apparently actually related to her sorority activities and that he thought she should repay those expenses to the county.

If these accusations are true, then I think she should repay the county and then be fired. (And, check her card for this vacation too.)

Every p-card down there should be auditied.

Carole Borges's picture

I agree check everyone's P-cards...

Full disclosure seems to be the only way this will appear fair. It might be that lack of oversight somehow made everyone think it was alright to fudge things--this happened in one business I worked for--everyone cheated on their expenses, so it kind of became accepted. Then the audits came...dum de dum...it could be the same here. One way to be sure this isn't systemic would be full disclosure.

Brian Hornback's picture

That Commissioner

in the interview was R. Larry Smith. He is the Republican that defeated Mary Lou Horner.

Smith appears not be in anyone person's camp (Mayor, Sheriff, Trustee, Register etc. etc.). He is just doing the best job for the citizens.

talidapali's picture

Smith didn't defeat Mary Lou...

she withdrew when the courts upheld the term limits.

As all the incumbents who were term limited should have done.

R. Larry Smith ran unopposed on the Republican ticket. We let him put a sign in our yard because he and Leo Cooper were the ONLY politicians who came to our door and asked permission BEFORE they put up a sign on the busy street corner that is our yard.

But I still will vote for a Dem if one runs in the next election in my precinct/district.

_________________________________________________
"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali

Scott Emge's picture

Cynthia Finch should be fired.

Cynthia Finch should be fired and prosecuted. Once these people get caught, they think that paying back a portion of what they stole from the taxpayers makes it all better? Where is the audit of all the other county p-card purchases outside of the cards held by the Mayor's staff?

Catfish's picture

ending?

Will this mess ever end?

On WBIR's comment section, someone wrote that apparently that soror has a convention in New Orleans July 16-22. Is that where she is?

If you look on the local government web sites, she's not so hot paying her property taxes on time either.

spratt's picture

If you'll recall

When Finch was first named to her position back at the beginning of the Ragsdale era, she was in arrears $20,000 or so on property taxes as I remember, and somebody had to settle that account before she could take her new job. This is nothing new.

Brian Hornback's picture

BTW

R. Larry Smith donates his entire County Commission salary to schools within the Seventh district and he has no relatives that are employed with/for Knox County.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Disparity

Not to disparage what is clearly a very kind gesture on Larry's part, but 7th district schools are quite adept at private fundraising as it is. The Halls community raised over $300,000 for their school playground/community park in recent years.

We need to educate Larry as to how activity of this sort creates even greater disparity between the haves and the have nots among schools. Better to donate that salary to the school system and have it prorated on some equitable basis among all the county's schools.

(Off-topic. Please forgive the interruption.)

bill young's picture

Moving Foward

Thats all we ever hear from Ragsdale.I would say that too if everything behind ya is in such a mess.

Its time to stop with the little dutch boy answer.
To get back on track he needs a clean sweep.
Everybody must go.

Brian Hornback's picture

Tamara

why can't all the Commissioners and School Board members take R. Larry's lead on this?

Then each district would be better. It is unfair for R. Larry's donation to be watered down to every district, when the taxpayers in the Seventh District are paying his salary. So, they should be the ones to benefit, for making the wise decision of hiring him. Right?

Steve Hunley when he served on the School Board donated the same amount as his salary to the schools. It wasn't common knowledge at the time.

Rachel's picture

It is unfair for R. Larry's

It is unfair for R. Larry's donation to be watered down to every district, when the taxpayers in the Seventh District are paying his salary.

(sarcasm) Really? Residents of the 7th district get their taxes earmarked to pay Smith & Moore? And mine are earmarked for Pinkston and whatever-the-new-guy-that-nobody-ever-heard-of name is?

I did not know that. Foolish me.(/sarcasm)

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Adequacy of Funding/Role of Court in TL Question

Brian, earlier, WRT Larry donating his salary to the district he serves: "...why can't all the Commissioners and School Board members take R. Larry's lead on this? Then each district would be better."

Apologies for my delay, Brian--I was out all day today.

Ah, this question always causes me a heavy sigh, because I've always been hyper-aware that some communities can better raise funds privately than others, and because I question the need to undertake fundraisers (especially school-specific ones), too. Even in my decade-plus of volunteering in my community's school PTAs, I've steered clear of much involvment in our school-specific fundraising.

Just as I look at the matter of school rezoning and want to ask "what conditions make rezoning necessary?," I look at school fundraising and ask the same question, "what conditions make school fundraising necessary?"

Both mechinations mask larger problems, I think, and I'd rather see us work to address those problems, not work to circumvent them.

In the two examples I cite, then, I think the problems to be addressed are segregated communities and inadequate funding, so I think our efforts to rezone schools or raise school funds privately are little more than circumvention.

To me, asking elected officeholders to forego their salaries seems to fall in the category of "circumvention," too. (But again, I absolutely do not mean to disparage or discount Larry's--or Steve's--kind gesture.)

Brian: "So, yes the TN Supreme Court threw (Larry Clark) out."

In this question, I think the correct terminology is that the Supreme Court "upheld the vote of the people" WRT term limiting officeholders. It was the voters who cast the vote. The court's task was just to examine whether that vote was constitutional.

Brian Hornback's picture

You make a valid point,

Rachel. But if you live in the 9th a majority of your good neighbors elected Paul and Larry and due to the Supreme Court kicking Larry out you have Tim Greene.

There was at least some public input into the Tim Greene appointment. At least more input than my district got with Frank Leuthold. I like Frank, but we had some good choices in Pamela Treacy and Jamie Dobbs that were ignored.

BTW, Tim is doing a good job.

I understand your frustration and I am not trying to minimize it. For you and others like you February is on the way.

Rachel's picture

Rather than understand my

Rather than understand my frustration, you missed my entire point, which was questioning your understanding of who pays Commissioners' salaries.

However, since you brought up public input, the "public input" to the Tim Greene appt was a joke. Paul & Larry picked a committee of their buds who talked with some folks and then Paul and Larry made a "unanimous from the two of us" decision. Real public input was totally absent.

cafkia's picture

No

You make a valid point,
Submitted by Brian Hornback on Sun, 2007/07/22 - 1:44pm.

Rachel. But if you live in the 9th a majority of your good neighbors elected Paul and Larry and due to the Supreme Court kicking Larry out you have Tim Greene.

Wrong! The Supreme Court kicked out no one. The Court DID say that the public has a right to mandatory term limits for it's elected officials and said officials could not just ignore the properly voted upon desires of the citizenry. One would hope that thse involved in governance would understand the difference but, I suppose that is just my elite education talking. (AS-EET from Pellisippi State)

CAFKIA

----------------------------------------------------------- 

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
  - William G. McAdoo

Brian Hornback's picture

O.K. to your original point. The taxpayers

pay the Commissioners salaries. Each Commissioner represents a certain number of residents. In the 5th district there are enough residents to have 3 representatives.

So, to your original point. The taxpayers in the 9th pay for Paul and Tim. My property taxes currently pay for Leuthold, Hammond and Leuthold.

Brian Hornback's picture

Actually

it was the TN AG (Attorney General) that opined to the County Law Director that term limits was not constitutional, many moons ago.

It was then the Shelby County case that made its way to the TN Supreme Court and the TN Supreme Court ruled in the Spring of 2006 and their ruling was contrary to the opinion/finding that the AG (under TN Democrat Ned Ray McWherter, I believe)had opined.

So, yes the TN Supreme Court threw them out.

Bbeanster's picture

Hijacking the thread

How did this become about R. Larry Smith?

Way to change the subject, Hornback.

Brian Hornback's picture

Tamara

you make some valid points to ponder. Thanks.

Beanster, as always you throw out an allegation with no basis. R. Larry's name came about as I was responding to a Tess's comment about the interview that Tess saw on WBIR.

However, Thanks for giving me so much credit. Have a great week.

CBT's picture

I note all R. Larry had to

I note all R. Larry had to say was that Finch ought to pay the money back. He didn't call for her termination. Same old routine...get caught, pay it back.

'We will not allow the Mayor's staff to take personal trips at county taxpayer expense...again.'

Expect this quote from Lorna Norwood. BTW, where's Van De Vate? I thought he was the guy from the Mayor's office who deals with the press. Or does the Mayor's office now have two spokespersons?

SHarris's picture

Caught again

I don't think anyone was really surprised about Finch's improprieties since she is the supervisor who would have approved Bone's expense reports. Ragsdale is usually pretty slick and I'm a little surprised that he hasn't been proactive in "outing" the rest of the folks who have questionable p-card charges. That would, at least, make it appear that he doesn't condone these actions. I don't think he is above throwing anyone under the bus to save his own political career. There should be a complete, independent audit of every county-issued purchasing card - immediately.

Bbeanster's picture

VandeVate's been on vacation

VandeVate's been on vacation for the past couple of weeks.
I think he's back on the job today.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Three vacations

Chad: "BTW, where's Van De Vate? I thought he was the guy from the Mayor's office who deals with the press."

Betty: "VandeVate's been on vacation for the past couple of weeks."

Ragsdale spoke before the Ethics Committee on Friday, 7/6. During the following week of 7/9 through 7/13, I tried to phone Van de Vate, Werner (before his resignation), and Troyer, all. All three were on vacation that week...

Joe Taylor's picture

It just Keeps getting better

It appears every time the auditor expands the search new and excessive illegal spending pops up... once again I say when will the recall begin??? how much more do we have to endure???

CBT's picture

I just noticed Norwood had

I just noticed Norwood had been the one out front speaking to the press over the past several weeks. Dwight is smart and capable. I just wondered where he might have been. He reads this blog, so maybe he can post...hehe, not likely.

CBT's picture

WBIR: Was Requitta Bone's

WBIR: Was Requitta Bone's trip to Detroit for AKA sorority business?

Mayor Ragsdale and Cynthia Finch: No comment.

No comment on the spending of taxpayer dollars. I guess they don't owe any explanation. Remember, Bone can't be more fired. Sound familiar? Someone needs to look a lot closer at Bone and Finch's travel and sorority work on county time.

The Finch trips are easy. If it was to recruit an AKA convention, as explained by the Mayor on TV tonight, why did Finch not once mention AKA in her travel expenses? A 2-hour tour of a Buffalo library and the Knox County taxpayers picking up the tab for a 4-day AKA convention. That's rich. Won't happen...what's the word...again?

WBIR also noted tonight that some of Finch's expense reports were corrected with today's date appearing.

Joe Taylor's picture

Different Day Same Story

Why does the Mayor think the end justifies the means... it does not... it is time the whole group of them go... just go away...

It is my tax dollars they are spending not their money... stop it now!

Ennui's picture

The mayor's spin yesterday

The mayor's spin yesterday was laughable. First it flat out stinks that Finch can just bring in her sister as her secretary, both of them jetset all over the place and charge items to the taxpayers. Second, it reeks when the mayor tells us what 'good' it brought to the county. Grasping at straws. Outrageous!

CBT's picture

Specific dates please. We

Specific dates please. We are told the trips were good because it brought an AKA convention to Knoxville...in April of 2005. When did the Finch trips (none of which mention AKA) occur? The paper says Mayor Ragsdale reviewed and approved those trips in the last year. So, what in the devil did these trips have to do with 'bringing' a convention to Knoxville which took place 2 1/2 years ago?

Finch says she paid her own expenses related to the AKA convention. So please tell us, exactly what expenses did Finch charge to the County?

All this begs another question. Was Bone a sacrificial lamb fired to protect Finch and stop further inquiry?

CBT

Joe Taylor's picture

AKA Trips

CBT, I think you are onto something... check the dates for the trips Ms. Bone took and then look at the dates for the trips that Ms. Finch took too... I would be surprised if the dates don't look familiar...

Brian Hornback's picture

Correction

"she withdrew when the courts upheld the term limits. As all the incumbents who were term limited should have done. R. Larry Smith ran unopposed on the Republican ticket."

Mary Lou desired to be re-elected and continued campaigning even after she said she dropped out.

Actually, R. Larry in addition to facing Mary Lou, he was also opposed by James McMillian. So, R. Larry did not run unopposed.

You were wise to have an R. Larry sign in your yard

Sam's picture

More from KNS

(link...)

Where is this going to end?

SHarris's picture

Unbelievable!

I assume those "disclosure forms" are available for public scrutiny?

Joe Taylor's picture

MAYOR RAGSDALE'S OFFICE

Once again the Ragsdale Executives are in the news... and it is not good news... what did Ragsdale say when he was running for office... "Making Government Better Every Day"... I guess he forgot about that statement... enough is enough... it is time they all go...

CBT's picture

Watch the WBIR interview.

Watch the WBIR interview. Ragsdale looked like Finch's lawyer. Geez, what happened to keeping your boss out of negative publicity? That's where ego and a determination to control the media gets in the way of good sense.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Personally enriched how?

I'm trying to plod through one "scandal" at a time here...

On the basis of today's N-S story, it seems likely that Finch would have a "personal interest" in TennCorp (because she helped found it), but it is not apparent to me how Finch has been "personally enriched" through her ownership of the building (because she doesn't charge the tenent rent, and she assumes payment for the building's taxes and insurance out-of-pocket, she says).

It seems to me that in this instance, the circumstance of Finch's having a "personal interest" in the nonprofit doesn't necessarily pose a conflict, absent her being "personally enriched" by its receiving any county grant money.

Maybe the verbiage of our Ethics Policy should better distinguish between "personal interest" and "personal enrichment?"

(Disclaimer: I don't fully understand the details on these so-called "occupancy charges" detailed in the nonprofit's accounting records...)

CBT's picture

Based on today's story, I'm

Based on today's story, I'm curious. What was Finch's job prior to being hired by the County Mayor (at $132,000/year)?

Like Tamara, Barker's story was a bit hard to follow. Is there a conflict? Is it something that should just be disclosed under the new ethics law? Is there some personal gain by Finch? I can't tell if there's a real issue here or not.

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