What is the difference b/t a liberal and a progressive? are these not different labels for the same thing.
No...You're probably thinking about the labels, "conservative" and "liar".
Although I suppose you could be a liar without being a conservative. There are certainly other kinds.
As an example, Jesus was a pure liberal but not a progressive. Jesus essentially ran an NGO that ignored the government and went about its liberal work of attempting to help the downtrodden and less fortunate. The religion he founded essentially died out about 25 years after his death when his brother James refused to sell the franchise to Paul, a Jewish rabbi with much bigger ambitions and better business sense.
Paul had a much more progressive bent to his thinking but was eventially done in by mainstream conservatives. He simply wasn't progressive enough to see the need for much more aggressive governmental involvement and it cost him in a big way.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a Progressive Liberal, though I certainly don't equate any of these people with each other... They are simply examples to fit the labels some folks seem to need.
Roosevelt used the government for liberal action, enacting progressive legislation in an attempt to deal with the ruined American social and economic structure created by the collapse of our conservative governmental system immediately after WW One (known as the Great Depression). (For somewhat similar reasons, We could face a similar collapse after Iraq if we let it go much longer.)
While most Progressives hold liberal ideals, we tend to be much better business people. A prime tenet of Progressivism is that the more you have, the more you owe to others. We also take the long view of things, which liberals often do not, and conservatives never do.
Conservative Christianity, for instance, is not only an oxymoron but is banking on the apocolypse.
Progressives, on the other hand, think that if we all work hard enough, we can prevent it from happening and be happy at the same time. Our work would be so much easier, by the way, if our scruples did not prevent us from shooting all the conservatives.
Peace,
Steve
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very...
well.
Jbark
You were playing the winger talking point that tries to make progressive a bad word. You guys managed to make liberal bad, even it meant putting down the very philosophy of Jesus. This is all an attempt to keep from having to attack progressive philosophy independantly by just claiming it's another word for liberal. It ain't.
I know that conservatives aren't going to think about any of this but other folks will so here:
The term "progressive" is today often used in place of "liberal". Although the two are related in some ways, they are separate and distinct political ideologies. According to John Halpin, senior advisor on the staff of the Center for American Progress, "Progressivism is an orientation towards politics, It's not a long-standing ideology like liberalism, but an historically-grounded concept... that accepts the world as dynamic." Progressives see progressivism as an attitude towards the world of politics that is broader than conservatism vs. liberalism, and as an attempt to break free from what they consider to be a false and divisive dichotomy.
Here's a short piece that may enlighten...At least scroll down to the comparison of philosophies toward the bottom.
Progressivism
After the 2000 election...
After the 2000 election I did a little reading on liberal/conservative, red brain/blue brain approaches to living in the world. I don’t remember the sources or all the ideas presented, but one idea rang true with me. It has to do with whether or not we view the world as orderly/predictable or disorderly/unpredictable and how comfortable we are with those different "worlds". Of course there is a continuum from orderly to disorderly with every conceivable nuance along the way. The writers proposed that “conservatives” are, by nature, more comfortable in an orderly/predictable or familiar world and they will work to make it that way if something is making them uncomfortable, fearful, whatever. Conservatives don’t want surprises when they pick up the morning paper or turn on the news. On the other side, “liberals” are, by nature, more comfortable with an unpredictable world. This is how liberals get accused of being tolerant of all sorts of behaviors that conservatives find outside the “mainstream”. Obviously this doesn’t explain everything about liberal/conservative thinking and the nuance factor is critical. But for better or worse, I often look at liberal/conservative arguments though this filter and while it doesn’t explain everything, it helps me understand how conservatives can defend many positions they take.
i was doing just fine....
but now i am quite confused.
off the scent
I believe you are conflating "conservative" with "Republican." It is possible to be a conservative without being a liar, but not if you are also a Republican. I would say Republicans are completely full of shit, but that implies too much solidity where there are only fumes.
Wikipedia has moved to
Wikipedia has moved to moderate changes. As you suggest M, I have seen bogus postings which were subsequently corrected. It is still by far the best source of information I've found.
Rikki, I've come to an inescapable conclusion that the conservative case cannot be made with facts. I do know relatively honest conservatives, but I play the "How long can they go without telling a falsehood" game with them. Barry Goldwater was an example, and he disowned the republican conservatives as you suggest.
TS, I think those with liberal capabilities see the world as a fascinating place and science as far more intriguing than supernatural fantasies. It is the liberal pursuit of science that is intended to make it expainable. The conservative attacks on science are refusals to deal with facts that require additional though or the changing of one's mind. When confronted with evidence that one is wrong, a liberal tends to say, "Wow!" and a conservative tends to say, "No I'm not." and attack the source.
Of course you're confused, jBark...That's what we've been trying to tell you.
The conservative attacks on
The conservative attacks on science are refusals to deal with facts that require additional though or the changing of one's mind
I'm sure you have heard the phrase, "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind's made up."
If that doesn't describe the Mutton Dagger in Chief, what does?
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I thought ithe term progressive as we know it today
I thought it came about after the Republicans took over the White House, then the world, then everyone's good old commmon sense. The Republicans started bashing liberal Democrats over the head with the word LIBERAL. Fox News did a bang-up job of blasting people with the term, along with a disdainful sneer, or sometimes even outrage on their face. The Democrats then became wimps and started backing away from the term like it meant Satanic or something. I remember wondering why people didn't just stand proud and say the were liberal and proud of it, but few did. I don't know who first started using the term progressive, but it seemed like it was a word less loaded with old baggage, so the Democrats started embracing it.
Today I head a guy on Fix News sneering about Hillary and how she wanted to provide EVERYONE with health care. It was so hard to believe he was saying this as some kind of proof she had lost her mental marbles.
God save us all, if everyone in this country actually had affordable healthcare! What would come next? A good education for everyone?