Wed
Apr 11 2007
02:12 pm
By: Sven
Taking a break from monitoring the mortgage meltdown (which is now seeping into the Alt-A level, BTW), I came across this neat doohickey on the NYT site for measuring renting vs. owning. Related story, radio bit.
It seems to confirm my own prejudices (and deep-seated resentment...I'm a renter) that home ownership is often overhyped and oversold as a financial solution for all circumstances, and is part of the reason the bubble is bursting. Thoughts?
|
|
Discussing:
- Trump Admin wants rid of DEI bike lanes (1 reply)
- New COVID-19 wave, vaccine available soon (2 replies)
- Mark Harmon journalism award (1 reply)
- Senior's fishing, hunting, sportsman license fees increase more than others (2 replies)
- Dolly Parton - we miss you already (1 reply)
- NW Indiana residents on 10th day without power (1 reply)
- Only Republicans moving to Florida? (1 reply)
- ballrooms, bankruptcy, and bulls-- (1 reply)
- SoKno what have you done? (2 replies)
- Vote! Thursday is election day. (4 replies)
- The Odyssey (3 replies)
- AI backlash - Justin Pearson (1 reply)
TN Progressive
- View from the Overlook (Whitescreek Journal)
- Alcoa property taxes will probably not go up (BlountViews)
- Smith & Wesson not a good fit for Blount County (BlountViews)
- Pellissippi Parkway extension delayed again (BlountViews)
- Blount County early voting record turnout (BlountViews)
- WATCH THIS SPACE. (Left Wing Cracker)
- America As It Is Right Now (RoaneViews)
- A friend sent this: From Captain McElwee's Tall Tales of Roane County (RoaneViews)
- The Meidas Touch (RoaneViews)
- Massive Security Breach Analysis (RoaneViews)
- (Whitescreek Journal)
- My choices in the August election (Left Wing Cracker)
TN Politics
- Judge criticizes Trump pressure on prosecutors on reflecting pool vandalism charges (TN Lookout)
- Stockard on the Stump: Towns’ departure opens seat for Shelby Dems appointment (TN Lookout)
- Immigrant advocates highlight Tennessee role in Trump administration’s mass deportation plans (TN Lookout)
- US Supreme Court again urged to permit Trump vote-by-mail restrictions (TN Lookout)
- Defense contractor to lay off 127 workers in Hardeman County (TN Lookout)
- Election experts see few legal options for Trump to meddle with polling places (TN Lookout)
Knox TN Today
- Ex-Vol helps Colorado defeat Georgia Tech (Knox TN Today)
- Get first look at Lady Vols softball at fall ball (Knox TN Today)
- Pick the score and win dinner at Aubrey’s with the KnoxTNToday Game Ball (Knox TN Today)
- Daily Connections: Your East Tennessee Guide | Sept. 4-6 (Knox TN Today)
- Mountaineer Folk Festival + Master Gardeners + Music in the Grove ++ (Knox TN Today)
- Close to Home: I found a Knoxville treasure hiding in plain sight (Knox TN Today)
- Thanks, Dolly (Knox TN Today)
- Albino alligator arrives in time for BOO! at the Zoo’s return to Zoo Knoxville (Knox TN Today)
- Labor Day honors more than work. It honors the people who keep a community moving (Knox TN Today)
- Food City Pharmacy offers seasonal flu vaccine (Knox TN Today)
- Dining Duo says to try Scott’s Place (Knox TN Today)
- Hiking with Harrington: Little River Trail offers late-summer wildflowers (Knox TN Today)
Local TV News
- New mural honors UT Flagship Scholarship program at Central High School (WATE)
- Friday Frenzy Live Week 3: Watch high school football from around East Tennessee (WATE)
- Woman with knife taken into custody after barricading herself in her car (WATE)
- Knox County takes first step toward building regional agricultural center (WATE)
- Patients in East Tennessee face potential exposure in LHC Group data breach (WATE)
- Union County Sheriff's Office gives update on jail staffing, conditions (WATE)
News Sentinel
State News
- Final scores and photos from Friday's Chattanooga-area prep football games - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Letters to the editors: Bradley project poses many concerns, Moccasin Bend needs big changes and more - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Volkswagen ‘very committed’ to Chattanooga amid 100K job cuts - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Mocs set for home opener vs. nationally ranked Tennessee Tech - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
Wire Reports
- Lindsay Clancy murder trial ends in mistrial despite dramatic appeal from defense - The Washington Post (US News)
- Vance says Trump, US military have prevented ‘energy crisis’ during Iran war - Fox News (Business)
- Flight price rises due to 'foolish leaders' starting wars, Virgin's Branson says - BBC (Business)
- Federal judge extends block on Trump executive order seeking to limit mail voting in the midterms - AP News (US News)
- How Gloria Steinem’s lifechanging stay in India shaped her approach to feminism - The Guardian (US News)
- Brooks and Capehart on Trump calling Iran war 'small potatoes' - PBS (US News)
- Supreme Court Sides With Republicans in TV Ad Fight - The New York Times (US News)
- Bloom Energy surges on inclusion to S&P 500; Illumina, Everpure also added (BE:NYSE) - Seeking Alpha (Business)
- Judge lets Pentagon move forward with firing Stars and Stripes journalists - CBS News (US News)
- Democrats Criticize Fetterman After WSJ Report on How He Spends His Time - WSJ (US News)
- Trump’s ballroom Tush Push - Politico (US News)
- OpenAI releasing major upgrade to ChatGPT and Codex with GPT-6 Astra, details here - 9to5Mac (Business)
- VW’s surprise job-slashing deal is a big win for its bosses - economist.com (Business)
- Health-tracking smart ring maker Oura to list on US stock market - The Guardian (Business)
- Jensen Huang’s Net Worth Nears $200 Billion After Nvidia Says It Will Acquire Hugging Face - Forbes (Business)
Local Media
Lost Medicaid Funding
To date, the failure to expand Medicaid/TennCare has cost the State of Tennessee ? in lost federal funding. (Source)
Search and Archives
TN Progressive
Nearby:
- Blount Dems
- Herston TN Family Law
- Inside of Knoxville
- Instapundit
- Jack Lail
- Jim Stovall
- Knox Dems
- MoxCarm Blue Streak
- Outdoor Knoxville
- Pittman Properties
- Reality Me
- Stop Alcoa Parkway
Beyond:
- Nashville Scene
- Nashville Post
- Smart City Memphis
- TN Dems
- TN Journal
- TN Lookout
- Bob Stepno
- Facing South

One thing nice about owning
One thing nice about owning is when you get old and the home is paid for you can still afford to live there with less income. Many elderly people I know have paid for the homes they currently live in. Their largest expenses now are healthcare, food, and electricity. It takes away one big worry when you get old.
I think home ownership makes
I think home ownership makes sense, especially once you get to a point where you need a tax writeoff.
Now, as far as this subprime banking scam goes...
Doesn't this sound an awful lot like the thrift theft of the mid-80s? Billions in fly-by-night S&Ls disappears! Economy threatened! GOP involvement at the highest levels! Slaps on the wrist issued! Taxpayers left to make up the difference!
(Remember, McCain was big buddies with ol' Chuck Keating. Just remember.)
____________________________
People getting rich. Some people saying "Markets!" More death. Neil Young. Death.
Average Woman C.E. Petro has
Average Woman C.E. Petro has a post about this, too:
(link...)
Edit: I've done both, and lean towards buying*. Circumstances change, though, and everyone's circumstances are different.
(*I figure you are paying the mortgage, taxes, etc. either way, because no landlord is going to rent to you for less than they are paying. The calculator's analysis is based partly on the out of pocket downpayment and closing costs, which some might consider an investment although who knows these days. Thankfully, real estate prices are fairly stable here in ET).
everyone's circumstances are
everyone's circumstances are different
That's it exactly. It can be a great investment, and there are many other non-financial considerations. My beef is that real estate is so often sold as the end all, be all for everyone.
But if the doohickey is to be believed, buying a home would be an absolutely horrible investment for me at present-- even if my rent goes up significantly and the house appreciates at an absurd rates of 10% plus per annum.
I've long believed this to be true, but I can't recall a single person agreeing with me. There's also been a relentless mantra in the media - buy, buy, buy - with no qualifications. After a while, one starts to think they're crazy to disagree.
It's like a lot of things,
It's like a lot of things, it depends on your personal situation, needs, finances, etc. It also depends on what you buy, at what price, loan terms if you finance, equity position, etc. Like many folks, my house is presently my biggest single investment. Maybe that will change as I get older. But considering all that, for me and Mrs. CBT buying is far better.
p.s.
Lordy, with what I've learned CBT means in some circles, maybe I shouldn't refer to my lovely bride as Mrs. CBT.
Doesn't this sound an awful
Doesn't this sound an awful lot like the thrift theft of the mid-80s?
Funny you mention that, because I just finished reading Liar's Poker. The origins of the S&L mess also lie in the mortgage business. Lewis Ranieri, one of the "Big Swinging D$#ks" at Solomon Brothers, lobbied to get the interest rate cap on home loans removed. Then he invented the whole scheme to package and sell the thrifts' mortgages on Wall Street. Great book.
Renting certainly makes
Renting certainly makes sense in some situations. People that spout "renting is throwing away money" have a little bit of a case, but they don't think about the other side. Often the people that go from renters to "owners" that were in this situation put little to nothing down and take out a 30 year mortgage. Talk about throwing money away with all the interest and PMI, etc.
Renting definitely has a place, but I think home ownership is a great goal to strive for. I see renting as a place to be while building up a bigger downpayment for a house or in a transition of location.
Craig Thomas
(link...)
I think home ownership is a
I think home ownership is a great goal to strive for
Please forgive me if I'm reading too much into that statement, but it strays a bit to close to the "ownership society" nonsense. Increased rates of home ownership in the U.S. have not lead to increased saving, even among "responsible" home buyers. Just the opposite, in fact.
I can't help thinking most of the conventional wisdom about home ownership isn't just marketing hoo-hah. I save money just fine, thankyouverymuch, and I'm getting twice the rate of return that I would in real estate.
A lot of that can be attributed to the fact that my means are relatively modest, as would the kind of property I could afford. I suspect that's true for a lot of people, but the hucksters want them to believe otherwise because fat commission checks are involved.
Sven, I highly recommend
Sven, I highly recommend you visit the housing bubble blog. You will find yourself among kindred spirits.
(link...)
"no landlord is going to rent to you for less than they are paying"
This is so not true. The above mentioned blog is teemeng with examples. And even closer to home: I briefly owned a home in the fair city of Murrvul and had a d**n hard time renting it for anything close to what a house payment would have been. Yet when I decided to sell I was overrun with prospective buyers and made a healthy profit. It's because Murrvul was/is? a bubble market and people are buying for appreciation, not income.
In Knoxville the figures are closer to balancing and it comes down to personal choice. The most important factor IMHO is can you do your own repair work of get it done inexpensively. Also, do you enjoy puttering around the house.
____________________________________
Less is the new More - Karrie Jacobs
had a d**n hard time renting
had a d**n hard time renting it for anything close to what a house payment would have been
This is why I should keep my mouth shut. With all the potential renters out chasing the Big Score, it's been a renters' market. My rent hasn't increased in four years (I know, I know...I should just wait).
Numbers
Now that I've run the numbers with the low interest rate I might have gotten a rent somewhat close to what a 100% mortgage payment would have been but it didn't take maintenance into account. That's the big thing people overlook. They also overlook what the down payment money could be earning otherwise.
Less is the new More - Karrie Jacobs
I think you can input
I think you can input maintenance costs under the "advanced options," UGC. I've been searching around for some data on what those costs average, but haven't been successful.
I think the bottom line here is that there needs to be better information and advice out for people making this fateful decision. The Realtors®©™ just don't suffice.
What, First Tennessee
What, First Tennessee underwriting the lot-hoggization of suburban Farragut? You don't say...
____________________________
People getting rich. Some people saying "Markets!" More death. Neil Young. Death.
So I keep pressing Alt-A,
So I keep pressing Alt-A, but a house is not appearing before me.
Must be some sort of General
Must be some sort of General Protection Racket Fault.
____________________________
People getting rich. Some people saying "Markets!" More death. Neil Young. Death.
I note with some trepidation
I note with some trepidation that my mortgage holder is tainted by the Alt-A brush, having taken a 21-point hit against earnings in the most recent quarter for its dabbling (read: 45% of its 2006 loans were Alt-A) in risky loans. Sheeyot.
I always worried about me making my payments, not my bank being in default to its creditors.
____________________________
People getting rich. Some people saying "Markets!" More death. Neil Young. Death.