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Somebody alert Al Gore . . . I'm serial
Submitted by SayUncle on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 10:35am.
In the People's Republic of Illinois, an elderly couple converted their Volkswagen to run on vegetable oil. Apparently, that requires a license and payment of a fuel tax at either the gas or diesel rate:
The agents informed the Wetzels that they were interested in their car, a 1986 Volkswagen Golf, that David Wetzel converted to run primarily from vegetable oil but also partly on diesel.
Wetzel uses recycled vegetable oil, which he picks up weekly from an organization that uses it for frying food at its dining facility.
"They told me I am required to have a license and am obligated to pay a motor fuel tax," David Wetzel recalled. "Mr. May also told me the tax would be retroactive."
Since the initial visit by the agents on Jan. 4, the Wetzels have been involved in a struggle with the Illinois Department of Revenue. The couple, who live on a fixed budget, have been asked to post a $2,500 bond and threatened with felony charges.
More:
According to the Wetzels, May told them during his Jan. 4 visit that they would have to pay taxes at either the gasoline rate of 19½ cents per gallon or the diesel rate of 21½ cents per gallon.
A retired research chemist and food plant manager, Wetzel produced records showing he has used 1,134.6 gallons of vegetable oil from 2002 to 2006. At the higher rate, the tax bill would come to $244.24.
"That averages out to $4.07 a month," Wetzel noted, adding he is willing to pay that bill.
Note: I officially denounce myself for crossposting this but I figure this is right up KnoxView's alley.
Submitted by mpower1952 on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 11:20am.
Some states actually keep track of the vehicles registered in their state. Many states require inspections once a year to verify the vehicle is in good working order. Since vehicles can become lethal weapons, it is in the public interest to inspect brakes, blinkers, etc.
I'm guess you are upset about the tax they are required to pay by state law. The man doesn't seem to have a problem with it. So I ask again, what's your point?
Submitted by SayUncle on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 11:28am.
Some states actually keep track of the vehicles registered in their state. Many states require inspections once a year to verify the vehicle is in good working order. Since vehicles can become lethal weapons, it is in the public interest to inspect brakes, blinkers, etc.
I'm sure illinois does to but this is not about that and is only about his conversion to vegetable oil.
what's your point?
Uhm, that a bureaucracy is trying to tax a man for gas or diesel and he's not using gas or diesel (or rather, he's using an incidental amount)? And that he's trying to make a difference and is looking at felony charges and excessive fines for it? And that the bureaucracy can't even get its maff right?
If only conservatives were in charge instead of those pesky big government liberals oh, wait. That is a red state isn't it? And the rethugs control the regulatory agencies at the fed level don't they? Whoops, my bad. Nevermind.
Submitted by Andy Axel on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 12:30pm.
Illinois? You can't be serial.
Actually, from 1977 until 1991, Jim Thompson (R) was governor. From 1991 until 1999, Jim Edgar (R) was governor. From 1999 until 2003, George Ryan was governor. Blagojevich was the first D elected to the governor's office since before Thompson, and he's currently struggling.
Congressional delegation is 12 Ds (2 senators inclusive) and 9 Rs.
See, outside of Chicago, most of Illinois looks like Indiana. Cattle, corn & soybean farms.
It looks bright blue during election years because Chicago provides a lot of momentum which is hard for the downstate Republicans to overcome.
Submitted by LadyVols on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 12:32pm.
I caught this guy on the Hal Hill show yesterday and he is almost 80 years old! He did say they were trying to get him to buy a license to distribute the oil? That flew right over Hal so I was left wondering if he was both using it and selling it to others?
That state has a road tax that comes out of the gas tax...if you are not using gas, then you have to pay the road tax out of pocket. His tab on it was less than 300 for 5 years. The kicker was they wanted him to post a 2500 dollar bond first.
One thing that really made me admire the fellow was his ability to keep a VW GOLF running all these years on any type of product. Those cars are right up there with the old VW "Thing" that often became a giant road flare due to the gas line routed across the hot engine block!
Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 12:38pm.
I would agree that this is not the best way to provide incentives to develop and use alternative fuels. They should be paying him.
In fact, where the guy screwd up is not applying for millions in federal grants and subsidies like big oil is getting for ethanol and other dead-end "research".
Yea, I listened to HHH yesterday and heard the story. I blogged it at the bottom of this post last night.
The reason I blogged about it was because I was amazed when the guy said he read a book that told him exactly how to do it. I forgot the name of the book and I figured others might have forgotten as well. I looked it up and linked to it on amazon in case people came looking.
Good post SaysUncle, but why do we need to reference Al Gore?
Submitted by LadyVols on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 1:08pm.
I forgot the name of the book and I figured others might have forgotten as well."
I did hear him mention a book and Hal (who I know and like but often shake my head when I listen to him) should have both gotten the name of the book and posted it on their site.
Dave might know more about it, he has more than a few private blogs and takes e mail there.
I still like the thought of a car like a golf cart! Plug the bad boy in at night, drive it all day and cut oil and gas of any type out of the process.
Submitted by Factchecker on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 1:08pm.
I agree it's misguided. In fairness, though, the tax most surely is used to build and maintain roadways. Why should someone skirt that? Also, there are issues with some of the chemicals used to make home brew biodiesel. Hazardous and possibly usable to make illegal drugs. (I know this is just straight FF oil, in this case.)
They don't have to be jack-booted thugs about it, of course, and they should be flexible to make special considerations for honest efforts at reducing fossil fuels.
I'm not sure who you are or if you have bad intentions on this site but to address you statement, I did find the book and linked to it on my blog. It is From The Fryer to the Fuel Tank. In case anybody is looking for it here.
I was reading Illinois and seeing Indiana. It is probably just another manifestation of my ongoing case of CRS syndrome.
However, it does make some sense that he should pay road use taxes.
LV: Coal is also a fossil fuel and if you plug the car in, you are most likely getting electricity generated with coal. Wind, nuclear, and hydro get a lot of press in this area but coal does the heavy lifting.
However, it does make some sense that he should pay road use taxes.
Give the man a medal and cut him a break. Huge companies get tax cuts and tax credits everyday. Why shouldn't this guy?
I have a great idea, let's encourage this behavior rather than discourage it.
This is why we won't solve either the pollution problem or the CO2 problem, if it is real, is that there is always a bureaucrat or tax collector who wants to kill the idea. They want their cut.
The day that solar collectors become cheap enough to put on your roof and sell power back to the grid some moron tax collector will want to deduct the amount of taxes that weren't paid.
File this under, sometimes taxes aren't the answer. People wonder why our food is being grown in other countries. The clothes on your back aren't from this country either.
You think one reason might be taxes? Maybe if the .gov would stop spending like drunken sailors on shore leave maybe we could produce our own food and goods.
Never mind, I forgot, we have to have universal health care. My bad.
Submitted by DavidLeeHiker on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 4:39pm.
What a great idea for legislation: no tax on homemade/alternative fuels for vehicles.
I watched that guy on a TV show, discovery channel or 'dirty jobs,' perhaps. Whatever the show, it was amazing because he worked very hard to collect the oil, did the restaurants a favor by carrying it off, and had a very expensive gizmo to make the bio-diesel.
I would say that he's a dream defendant for a criminal defense lawyer. Could you imagine the closing arguments? A jury would never ever convict such a person. But taxes are a whole different thing as the collection agency is ruthless.
I'll have you know that I was on many a drunken shore leave and I never spent anywhere near a trillion dollars!! Take it back I say!!
The solution to any problem, mathmatic or social, is not to start ignoring components. Road use should be taken into account. If it is decided that the benefits of non-fossil fuel use have greater weight, fine but, they must be considered. One of the problems we now face is due to us acting as though respiratory disease, obesity, and various land use issues have nothing to do with the auto or oil companies so they get a free pass on all that. That is idiotic. It is less idiotic, but still idiotic, to act as though there is no wear and tear on the roads if a vehicle does not use fossil fuels. If everybody switched to bicycles, there would still be a need for road maintenance and that money would have to come from somewhere. Is that so hard to understand?
Submitted by LadyVols on Fri, 2007/03/09 - 5:05pm.
I'm not sure who you are or if you have bad intentions on this site"
Wind, nuclear, and hydro get a lot of press in this area but coal does the heavy lifting."
As for the electric, if we would add more nuclear plants we could slide out of the coal world.
As for not sure who you are.."
I know for sure who Randy is and two others that post but that is about it. Intentions are not even a part of why I post on any site, issues are though. So pull your claws back and lets all just talk.
Submitted by Factchecker on Sat, 2007/03/10 - 7:53am.
So pull your claws back and lets all just talk.
It's not the anonymity that's bad, it's the dishonesty. Why should anyone who misrepresents their true beliefs and/or intentions be taken seriously? Here or anywhere else. It's about trust and reliability.
If you're real and serious, I'd start over w/ a new user profile. "LV" is damaged goods.
Submitted by LadyVols on Sat, 2007/03/10 - 3:09pm.
it's the dishonesty."
Accusing folks of not telling the truth in East Tennessee is a large step toward not being civil. Rather than trolling for a fight I suggest you just talk about the topics.
Submitted by WhitesCreek on Sat, 2007/03/10 - 6:31pm.
Accusing folks of not telling the truth in East Tennessee is a large step toward not being civil. Rather than trolling for a fight I suggest you just talk about the topics.
Here's the deal:
You want us to be civil?
Stick to the truth.
Is that easy or what?
You could also drop off your Conservative talking points mail lists and start thinking for yourself. That would help, too.
Some states actually keep track of the vehicles registered in their state. Many states require inspections once a year to verify the vehicle is in good working order. Since vehicles can become lethal weapons, it is in the public interest to inspect brakes, blinkers, etc.
I'm guess you are upset about the tax they are required to pay by state law. The man doesn't seem to have a problem with it. So I ask again, what's your point?
Be a blessing to someone today.
I'm sure illinois does to but this is not about that and is only about his conversion to vegetable oil.
Uhm, that a bureaucracy is trying to tax a man for gas or diesel and he's not using gas or diesel (or rather, he's using an incidental amount)? And that he's trying to make a difference and is looking at felony charges and excessive fines for it? And that the bureaucracy can't even get its maff right?
---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?
If only conservatives were in charge instead of those pesky big government liberals oh, wait. That is a red state isn't it? And the rethugs control the regulatory agencies at the fed level don't they? Whoops, my bad. Nevermind.
CAFKIA
-----------------------------------------------------------
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo
"That is a red state isn't it?"
Illinois? You can't be serial.
---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?
Actually, from 1977 until 1991, Jim Thompson (R) was governor. From 1991 until 1999, Jim Edgar (R) was governor. From 1999 until 2003, George Ryan was governor. Blagojevich was the first D elected to the governor's office since before Thompson, and he's currently struggling.
Congressional delegation is 12 Ds (2 senators inclusive) and 9 Rs.
See, outside of Chicago, most of Illinois looks like Indiana. Cattle, corn & soybean farms.
It looks bright blue during election years because Chicago provides a lot of momentum which is hard for the downstate Republicans to overcome.
____________________________
Recursive blogwhore.
I caught this guy on the Hal Hill show yesterday and he is almost 80 years old! He did say they were trying to get him to buy a license to distribute the oil? That flew right over Hal so I was left wondering if he was both using it and selling it to others?
That state has a road tax that comes out of the gas tax...if you are not using gas, then you have to pay the road tax out of pocket. His tab on it was less than 300 for 5 years. The kicker was they wanted him to post a 2500 dollar bond first.
One thing that really made me admire the fellow was his ability to keep a VW GOLF running all these years on any type of product. Those cars are right up there with the old VW "Thing" that often became a giant road flare due to the gas line routed across the hot engine block!
Good to be back, did I miss anything?
Your buddy
LV, they're essentially trying to tax and license him as a fule supplier, is my understanding.
It's retarded.
---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?
I would agree that this is not the best way to provide incentives to develop and use alternative fuels. They should be paying him.
In fact, where the guy screwd up is not applying for millions in federal grants and subsidies like big oil is getting for ethanol and other dead-end "research".
Yea, I listened to HHH yesterday and heard the story. I blogged it at the bottom of this post last night.
The reason I blogged about it was because I was amazed when the guy said he read a book that told him exactly how to do it. I forgot the name of the book and I figured others might have forgotten as well. I looked it up and linked to it on amazon in case people came looking.
Good post SaysUncle, but why do we need to reference Al Gore?
KTB
I forgot the name of the book and I figured others might have forgotten as well."
I did hear him mention a book and Hal (who I know and like but often shake my head when I listen to him) should have both gotten the name of the book and posted it on their site.
Dave might know more about it, he has more than a few private blogs and takes e mail there.
I still like the thought of a car like a golf cart! Plug the bad boy in at night, drive it all day and cut oil and gas of any type out of the process.
I agree it's misguided. In fairness, though, the tax most surely is used to build and maintain roadways. Why should someone skirt that? Also, there are issues with some of the chemicals used to make home brew biodiesel. Hazardous and possibly usable to make illegal drugs. (I know this is just straight FF oil, in this case.)
They don't have to be jack-booted thugs about it, of course, and they should be flexible to make special considerations for honest efforts at reducing fossil fuels.
LadyVols,
I'm not sure who you are or if you have bad intentions on this site but to address you statement, I did find the book and linked to it on my blog. It is From The Fryer to the Fuel Tank. In case anybody is looking for it here.
KTB
I was reading Illinois and seeing Indiana. It is probably just another manifestation of my ongoing case of CRS syndrome.
However, it does make some sense that he should pay road use taxes.
LV: Coal is also a fossil fuel and if you plug the car in, you are most likely getting electricity generated with coal. Wind, nuclear, and hydro get a lot of press in this area but coal does the heavy lifting.
CAFKIA
-----------------------------------------------------------
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo
However, it does make some sense that he should pay road use taxes.
Give the man a medal and cut him a break. Huge companies get tax cuts and tax credits everyday. Why shouldn't this guy?
I have a great idea, let's encourage this behavior rather than discourage it.
This is why we won't solve either the pollution problem or the CO2 problem, if it is real, is that there is always a bureaucrat or tax collector who wants to kill the idea. They want their cut.
The day that solar collectors become cheap enough to put on your roof and sell power back to the grid some moron tax collector will want to deduct the amount of taxes that weren't paid.
File this under, sometimes taxes aren't the answer. People wonder why our food is being grown in other countries. The clothes on your back aren't from this country either.
You think one reason might be taxes? Maybe if the .gov would stop spending like drunken sailors on shore leave maybe we could produce our own food and goods.
Never mind, I forgot, we have to have universal health care. My bad.
What a great idea for legislation: no tax on homemade/alternative fuels for vehicles.
I watched that guy on a TV show, discovery channel or 'dirty jobs,' perhaps. Whatever the show, it was amazing because he worked very hard to collect the oil, did the restaurants a favor by carrying it off, and had a very expensive gizmo to make the bio-diesel.
I would say that he's a dream defendant for a criminal defense lawyer. Could you imagine the closing arguments? A jury would never ever convict such a person. But taxes are a whole different thing as the collection agency is ruthless.
Good post
I'll have you know that I was on many a drunken shore leave and I never spent anywhere near a trillion dollars!! Take it back I say!!
The solution to any problem, mathmatic or social, is not to start ignoring components. Road use should be taken into account. If it is decided that the benefits of non-fossil fuel use have greater weight, fine but, they must be considered. One of the problems we now face is due to us acting as though respiratory disease, obesity, and various land use issues have nothing to do with the auto or oil companies so they get a free pass on all that. That is idiotic. It is less idiotic, but still idiotic, to act as though there is no wear and tear on the roads if a vehicle does not use fossil fuels. If everybody switched to bicycles, there would still be a need for road maintenance and that money would have to come from somewhere. Is that so hard to understand?
CAFKIA
-----------------------------------------------------------
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo
I'm not sure who you are or if you have bad intentions on this site"
Wind, nuclear, and hydro get a lot of press in this area but coal does the heavy lifting."
As for the electric, if we would add more nuclear plants we could slide out of the coal world.
As for not sure who you are.."
I know for sure who Randy is and two others that post but that is about it. Intentions are not even a part of why I post on any site, issues are though. So pull your claws back and lets all just talk.
ME
It's not the anonymity that's bad, it's the dishonesty. Why should anyone who misrepresents their true beliefs and/or intentions be taken seriously? Here or anywhere else. It's about trust and reliability.
If you're real and serious, I'd start over w/ a new user profile. "LV" is damaged goods.
it's the dishonesty."
Accusing folks of not telling the truth in East Tennessee is a large step toward not being civil. Rather than trolling for a fight I suggest you just talk about the topics.
Accusing folks of not telling the truth in East Tennessee is a large step toward not being civil. Rather than trolling for a fight I suggest you just talk about the topics.
Here's the deal:
You want us to be civil?
Stick to the truth.
Is that easy or what?
You could also drop off your Conservative talking points mail lists and start thinking for yourself. That would help, too.
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