Tue
Mar 6 2007
01:30 pm
From KnoxNews.com:
Knoxville Mayor Bill Haslam today announced his candidacy for a second term.
Haslam who was elected in 2003 cited among his accomplishments a revitalized downtown and the recent focus on redeveloping the South Waterfront.
Mayor Haslam does a great job, especially if you put him along side Scott Moore.
Update: N-S has an article in Wednesday's paper, read it here.
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I still hate that he has no
I still hate that he has no viable opponent. Things like that are how we've ended up with some of the messes in county government. Candidates need to be challenged.
Too much power...
I still hate that he has no viable opponent. Things like that are how we've ended up with some of the messes in county government. Candidates need to be challenged.
The Big Jim machine has not brought us better government, it has brought us more powerful government. When will the name be changed from Knoxville to Haslamville?
It will be a sad day if there is no opponent. Ironically the person that coined the phrase, "Too much power in the hands of too few people" will not be that opponent.
Many people cast their eyes to Rob Frost. We will see.
Re-Elect Mayor Haslem
Some Mayors talk about ending the fussin & fightin;This Mayor has done it.I think he has done a great job.
mayor's race
Why doesn't someone list the big host list here. On the one hand I like that city council is not fussing and fighting. On the other hand at least with fussing and fighting things are aired out and you know everyone is not just going along to get along. I actually like that some of the elephants in the room in the county,like the Ragsdale Hutchinson rivalry are out in the open. Haslam is very nice, but I still think most council members except Steve Hall are still to awed to be in his presence to question anything. I don't know who would spend their time to be token Haslam oppostion but I hope someone does. Madeline probably was his most viable opponent. Stacey
Madeline
Stacey: "Madeline probably was his most viable opponent."
No probably about it. Wasn't she outspent, like, three-fold, yet lost by a fairly close margin?
opponent
I meant that out of all people qualified to be mayor I can't think of anyone who could come as close as she did. Her name was the only one mentioned as people thought of Democrat opponents for this year. But I didn't think she would run again anyway. Stacey
Bill Haslam Host List
The Bill Haslam host list can be seen at..
(link...)
Also, as an FYI, (sorry if this affects the integrity of the thread) design guidelines will be on the council agenda next week. Their development was a major recommendation of Crandall Arambula in their work that grew out of the Nine Counties One Vision downtown task force. Our department worked with MPC on this with major public participation all along the way. The final draft can be be viewed at the following link. This was approved earlier by MPC. The MPC staff did a great job on this.
(link...)
Haslam is very nice, but I
Haslam is very nice, but I still think most council members except Steve Hall are still to awed to be in his presence to question anything.
That would certainly be news to folks like Joe Hultquist and Bob Becker. And to the Mayor.
You know, there is some middle ground between being a syncophant(sp?) and being a bitter enemy. I observe Council fairly closely and what I see are folks who generally have a good working relationship with the Mayor.
Nine, are you suggesting Rob Frost should run against Haslam?
Is this a feudal system?
Nine, are you suggesting Rob Frost should run against Haslam?
Someone should. A second coronation would be a precedent Knoxville does not need.
A second coronation would be
A second coronation would be a precedent Knoxville does not need.
Umm, the previous mayor served for 16 years, so I think your precedent reference is a bit out of whack.
And yes, I know that term limits won't allow for that anymore.
You know, as long as the person is doing a decent job, there's something to be said for that second term. It really takes most of one term to learn the job.
I'm not sure what your beef with Haslam is, other than he's a Haslam. Can you elaborate? What specific issues do you differ with him on?
City Mayor term-limited?
Rachel: "And yes, I know that term limits won't allow for that anymore."
Rachel, I meant to ask you about this earlier. Our 1994 (95?) referendum applied to *county* officeholders and constitutional officers only, didn't it? Was the city mayor's term impacted, too?
Or is this maybe a consequence of some city charter amendment I missed (and wouldn't have been able to vote on over the last 13 years)?
City term limits
City voters adopted term limits in a separate vote (otherwise we'd probably have Victor until he dropped dead in office). I don't remember the year but Haslam is the first Mayor they apply to.
5 Council members (Frost, Hultquist, Hall, Pelot, and Brown) are in their second term and won't be able to run again.
City term limits
I remember now, Rachel--Jean Teague tried to move from a district seat to an at-large seat that year.
bob
Bob Becker has rarely questioned Haslam on anything even though that was what people were electing him to do. Steve Hall has done what many of us hoped Bob would. Stacey
Haslam reflects well
I think Haslam makes Knoxville look good. Perhaps that's why people aren't lining up to run.
I know Rob Frost. He is not
I know Rob Frost. He is not interested at all. Feudal sytem? What in the world does tht mean.
I know Rob Frost too. And I
I know Rob Frost too. And I think highly of him. Which leads me to suspect that #9 would end up yapping about him too.
It means,
Feudal system? What in the world does that mean.
Elections are where voters cast votes. A feudal system is where there is no election because the fundraising precludes the election.
Only Lords, Dukes, and Earls need apply.
almost forgot
Hey Nine, in addition to detailing your problems with Haslam, could you enlighten us as to why who the Mayor of Knoxville is matters so much to a Farragutian?
First someone has got to
First someone has got to want to run. Then they can raise money. You have any evidence that someone wants to run but cant raise money. They have to try first. What is your gripe with Haslam anyway. Do you just hate mayors in general.
You presume
First someone has got to want to run. Then they can raise money. You have any evidence that someone wants to run but cant raise money. They have to try first. What is your gripe with Haslam anyway. Do you just hate mayors in general.
a great deal for someone here two weeks and has five posts.
I object to both Governor Bredesen and Mayor Haslam's working without pay. It creates an unlevel playing field and should be a campaign violation. They could take their salary and donate it to charity. It creates an environment that makes it difficult for regular people to run against him. It is not a service to the community and he should have better judgment.
The Mayor is far from perfect. His record on property rights is not good. The new project around 275 is questionable. You can expect this to receive great scrutiny outside the realm of the News Sentinel. The sale of the Candy Factory was a poor decision on many levels. The still unaccounted for funding of the South Knox Waterfront looms in the distant horizon. The episode with the Empowerment Zone and the 5 points shopping center leave questions unanswered. The location of the massively overbuilt, government (our money) funded, transit center remains in question. His membership in an anti-second amendment group shows a stunning lack of judgment.
But he is better than Victor Ashe so by all means do proceed. He is a nice man and does a good job running City Council meetings. I think he has a good heart. He has been able to make mistakes without having them be accountable to him. His PR is excellent. His management team dedicated, willing, and competent. He shows reasonable political instincts and a remarkable ability to resemble Teflon. But if he didn't have the daily paper blocking for him and unlimited financial backing it would be a different story.
I sense a great deal of harmony within him grasshopper.
Be honest, how hard is it to follow Darth Ashe?
refusing a salary
It creates an unlevel playing field and should be a campaign violation. They could take their salary and donate it to charity. It creates an environment that makes it difficult for regular people to run against him.
You nimwad, what made it difficult for Madeline to run against Haslam was that he had tons of $$ (he spent about 3 times what she did) and name recognition.
Refusing his salary does nothing to change that - it just puts a bit more $$$ back into the city cofers, which is something I think most Knoxvillians (if not Farragutians) appreciate.
Is it fair to other potential opponents?
Refusing his salary does nothing to change that - it just puts a bit more $$$ back into the city cofers,
It is poor judgment on his part. Some, perhaps many voters, will see this as a plus and vote accordingly. Over a four year term it is over half a million dollars. It creates an impression that the City is "saving" money. But at what cost?
Explain how this is fair to potential opponents. Can you? It reduces the pool of equal candidates to less than a dozen out of a population of over 187,000. How is this not a campaign violation? It is the ultimate soft money violation. It is voter disenfranchisement.
It is a poor precedent and should be criticized wherever and whenever it occurs. Do we want a ruling class in America? Curious how Mr. McElroy doesn't take this on in an Editorial.
The dark side of term limits
The dark side of term limits is that once elected, officeholders seem to be assured of a virtual eight-year term.
Oh, well, nothing's perfect.
And it's just silly to say that Haslam's money doesn't scare off the competition. Ragsdale got elected that way -- it wasn't his own money, but he spent four years amassing a gigantic warchest, and that chilled the opposition.
Explain how this is fair to
Explain how this is fair to potential opponents. Can you? It reduces the pool of equal candidates to less than a dozen out of a population of over 187,000. How is this not a campaign violation? It is the ultimate soft money violation. It is voter disenfranchisement.
Nine, you've said some crazy shit here and at the other blog over the years. But I'm pretty sure this wins the prize for the most over the top, irrational and illogical statement ever in local internet history. And I'm not even a Haslam fan.
Why?
Nine, you've said some crazy shit here and at the other blog over the years. But I'm pretty sure this wins the prize for the most over the top, irrational stretch of logic in local internet history. And I'm not even a Haslam fan.
Why is it crazy? Let's say you are a voter in Knox County, you compare two candidates, one will create a half million dollar savings over four years by not accepting a salary, the other will not (because they cannot).
If both candidates are equal in ever other aspect, which do you choose?
Can you differentiate these candidates without giving preferential consideration to the candidate that refuses the salary?
How is this any different than a candidate that receives soft money? The whole gripe about soft money is that is creates an unlevel playing field. What can be more unequal than a candidate who is so well off they can refuse the Mayoral salary?
You act like this is a good thing. So is your vision that only millionaires can be Mayor of Knoxville?
Why is it crazy? Let's say
Why is it crazy? Let's say you are a voter in Knox County, you compare two candidates, one will create a half million dollar savings over four years by not accepting a salary, the other will not (because they cannot).
If both candidates are equal in ever other aspect, which do you choose?
Well, to be perfectly clear, Haslam didn't announce until after he won that he wouldn't accept a salary. He won anyway.
Bean's right - of course his $$ scares most potential candidates off. But the salary issue is a non-starter. As is your premise that two candidates might be equal in every other way.
I truly don't think Haslam or Bredesen or anybody else wins one single voter just based on turning down his salary, although folks do appreciate him not taking what he doesn't need.
Randy's right - this is probably the most illogical argument you've ever pursued. At least it gave me a good giggle at the end of a tough day.
Call me crazy but I think I
Call me crazy but I think I have to agree with the digit on this one. Although Haslam may not have announced that he wouldn't accept a salary till after the election. It would definitely affect the next election, putting his opponent, who may not be as fortunate to have the wealth that Haslam has, but still be well qualified for the job, at a disadvantage as soon as the campaigning begins. In a sense Haslam could use his refusal of the salary as a campaign ploy to buy his voters. How could another candidate compete with that?
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
Call me crazy
JaHu, I've developed a fondness for you, but on this one - yeah, you're crazy.
I have never, ever heard anyone complain before about a public official turning down a salary.
Haslam has megabucks. Any opponent of his - or any other candidate who is independently wealthy or who has a deep "war chest" - is at a disadvantage because of that. The salary thing is at best trivial in comparison.
If Haslam is sincere about
If Haslam is sincere about not accepting the salary. Why doesn't he put his salary into a savings to collect interest and as soon as he is permanently out of office, donate the money to the city.
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
I think a county resident
I think a county resident has some interest in who the city mayor is. The city is, to a degree, supposed to be the county's economic engine and more often than not is the 'name' that citizens outside the immediate area recognize associated with the County.
This is a poor example, but people understand that the Vols play in Knoxville more than they would say Knox County. Or it's the Chicago Bears, not Cook County Bears.
Also, since Farrgutians(heh), Powell and Halls folk presumably spend sales taxes in Knoxville I would like to see the Knoxville mayor spend that local portion well.
As far as working without a salary, that's all well and good from a PR standpoint, but does the city not have to budget that money towards his salary anyways? What happens when we don't have a mayor that can afford to live off his family lucre? Do we immediately have a budget shortfall of a 120K that need be made up somewhere?
Significance of Mayor's salary in budget?
As a fellow county resident, I agree with all your points, Ennui, but I having been trying to get a context by determining what percentage the mayor's salary might be of the total city budget.
I would think that it is miniscule, but I can't do any rough math, because I don't know what the total city budget runs. Can anybody offer a rough number, so that we may divide this hypothetical $120,000 by that base?
I certainly hope the Mayor
I certainly hope the Mayor of Knoxville's salary is more than $120,000.
Nine's estimation, Randy
Number 9: "It is poor judgment on his part. Some, perhaps many voters, will see this as a plus and vote accordingly. Over a four year term it is over half a million dollars."
That number was Nine's estimate, Randy--although I didn't divide correctly, did I? Over $125,000, he guessed?
I am told that Ragsdale's
I am told that Ragsdale's salary is $117,000 for what is arguably a tougher job. So maybe $120,000 is in the ballpark.
In
Ragsdale's(I meant to say) Haslam's case, $120,000 seems low for someone in charge of 3000 employees and a $300 million budget.Nardelli (aside)
Makes that $38 million annually paid to Bob Nardelli (recently booted Home Depot CEO) look all the more discrepant, doesn't it, Randy?
(Sorry--too many asides from me this morn.)
"RNeal: I am told that
"RNeal: I am told that Ragsdale's salary is $117,000 for what is arguably a tougher job. So maybe $120,000 is in the ballpark.
In Ragsdale's case, $120,000 seems low for someone in charge of 3000 employees and a $300 million budget."
I thought the bulk of the county's budget was for schools. The administration gives the dollar amount out, but the school board spends, and the school board has the oversight.
So once you take out the school portion of the budget and the number of school employees, it would seem he's in charge of much less.
In any event, everyone knows the real reason you run for county office: to hire your relatives. :-)
You act like this is a good
You act like this is a good thing. So is your vision that only millionaires can be Mayor of Knoxville?
Another fascinating leap of logic.
How is this any different
How is this any different than a candidate that receives soft money? The whole gripe about soft money is that is creates an unlevel playing field. What can be more unequal than a candidate who is so well off they can refuse the Mayoral salary?
Sorry digit, I probably didn't help your cause, but aren't you for the darkside anyway? All is good!
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
yeah, you're crazy.
yeah, you're crazy.
Call me crazy again but, isn't this his way of using his money to influence voters?
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
Why? The governor only makes
Why? The governor only makes like what, 80 or 90?
Mayor Ashe bumped up that
Mayor Ashe bumped up that salary to around 125k maybe a year or two before he left office in his budgets. To his credit, it was scheduled to take effect for his successor.
I think we are talking about a sum that really hasn't been paid, kinda funny to think about. Still, my point is does this become an issue down the road. That may not seem like a lot to some folks, but it is to me.
Not complaining...
Whatever percentage Haslam's salary runs to total budget, I agree with whomever suggested previously that we're nuts to complain!
So long as some opportunity exists to trim the budget a bit for the present, and provided that trimming it doesn't result in some kind of short-sighted public policy, I say "thanks." Ditto for Bredesen.
(And Bredesen ultimately got my vote twice, but the salary question didn't even cross my mind.)
Birds of a feather...
Rachel:
Refusing his salary does nothing to change that - it just puts a bit more $$$ back into the city coffers,
Tamara:
Whatever percentage Haslam's salary runs to total budget, I agree with whomever suggested previously that we're nuts to complain!
So long as some opportunity exists to trim the budget a bit for the present, and provided that trimming it doesn't result in some kind of short-sighted public policy, I say "thanks." Ditto for Bredesen.
So people are appreciative. It is a benefit in their eyes. But only a millionaire can do this. So effectively the pool of candidates is reduced to a dozen or so out out 187,000 people. How is this not voter disenfranchisement? How is this fair play to other candidates? Isn't this a form of buying the office?
Mayor Haslam should accept his salary like any City employee. He could give it back to the City or a charity of his choice. It is a bad judgment on his part.
Just me...
I can't speak for others, Nine, I'm just saying that, for me, knowing a candidate would be willing and able to forfiet his salary would rank way-low (or not at all) on my list of considerations on candidates. I truly don't think I'd throw my vote his way on that basis.
But only a millionaire can
But only a millionaire can do this. So effectively the pool of candidates is reduced to a dozen or so out out 187,000 people.
You think there's only a dozen or so millionaires in Knoxville? Not that it's relevant to anything, but I find that fascinating, too.
No,
You think there's only a dozen or so millionaires in Knoxville? Not that it's relevant to anything, but I find that fascinating, too.
A dozen or so that might run for City Mayor. I believe there are several hundred millionaires in Knoxville proper.
So people are appreciative.
So people are appreciative. It is a benefit in their eyes. But only a millionaire can do this. So effectively the pool of candidates is reduced to a dozen or so out out 187,000 people. How is this not voter disenfranchisement? How is this fair play to other candidates? Isn't this a form of buying the office?
This is my last post on this ridiculous subject. You're the one that's always saying we should trust the voters to make good decisions. Now you're saying that they can't be trusted to weigh the importance of a person giving up a salary of around $120k (from a entire city budget of around $232M) against all the other qualities of the candidate.
You're not only ridiculous, you're contradictory.
BTW, the city just hired another Rogero supporter to run Codes Enforcement.
Why do it?
Now you're saying that they can't be trusted to weigh the importance of a person giving up a salary of around $120k (from a entire city budget of around $232M) against all the other qualities of the candidate.
It is poor judgment. It gives the impression the office is for sale. That it can be bought. It is bad policy, bad PR, and a bad precedent.
Why not take the office like every other Mayor in Knoxville's history and accept the salary? Over eight years this will be a million dollars. That could have been a lot of scholarships for those who cannot afford a higher education.
You support a living wage but defend the Mayor on this. No contradiction there.
You support a living wage
You support a living wage but defend the Mayor on this. No contradiction there.
How do you know whether or not I support the living wage? I don't believe we've ever discussed it.
You have a very bad habit of putting words in other folks' mouths and thoughts and motives in their heads.
As for the mayor/salary thing, I'm done. Yammer away if you like.
>Mayor Haslam should accept
>Mayor Haslam should accept his salary like any City employee. >He could give it back to the City...
Nine, do you even think before you type this stuff? Or does it just roll out like Gertrude Stein?
Not complaining either, it's
Not complaining either, it's just a concern...something to think about. Given the mess we find ourselves in with county government(and their salaries these days!)even obstentsably good gestures should be given at least cursory inspection in my very humble opinion.
Steve Hall-69k, Mike Lowe-85k, Hutch-95k(or so), all that money just appeared?
I'm naturally skeptical about the gummint 'finding money' especially when a property tax increase might be forthcoming in light of the KCSD pension vote.
Actually, there's not much
Actually, there's not much "new" money involved, except with Hall. Lowe and Hutchison just swapped out with employees.
And Hutchison is a career cop with the KCSO, and as such, the merit system allows him to go back to work there. You may quarrel with the large salary (and the raises given to several of the assistant chiefs), but he is entitled to have a job there -- and you cannot say he's unqualified for the position.
Bean: "You may quarrel with
Bean: "You may quarrel with the large salary (and the raises given to several of the assistant chiefs), but he is entitled to have a job there -- and you cannot say he's unqualified for the position."
I'm surprised to hear you say this, Bean. Why would an *elected* employee of any sort be "entitled" to a job? And if he were appointed, I guess we'd have to assume he was removed for due cause. So, whence this entitlement?
There can only be one...
I'm naturally skeptical about the gummint 'finding money' especially when a property tax increase might be forthcoming in light of the KCSD pension vote.
If County Commission keeps the "unwanted, unneeded, office park over a sinkhole", hat tip to Commissioner Mark Harmon, there must be a property tax increase. A big one.
The voters approved the KCSD pension. It is the will of the people. but the Midway Industrial Park was not wanted by the voters. It was not wanted by the people of the Thorn Grove community. It is unneeded and in a poorly suited place over the worst geography in the entire county.
Both projects cost 57 million dollars. How is it only the KCSD pension makes property taxes go up? The News Sentinel and Mayor Ragsdale are both guilty of that distortion. Every time you read that or hear it know it is a distortion. Both projects cost the same.
There can only be one, unless taxes go up. Both have been approved. What should County Commission do?
I apologize if I have taken
I apologize if I have taken this thread off subject. I'm just naturally skeptical, and anytime public monies are involved I feel we have a duty to consider all angles.
Altruism is rare these days.
I believe, Tamara, Hutch was
I believe, Tamara, Hutch was granted civil service status for his time before his election. Granted, not at a salary or position like he's in now.
what Ennui said.I don't
what Ennui said.
I don't know why that's so hard to grasp.
He has worked there for 30-plus years. Under Knox County's version of civil service (the merit system, in this case), he is entitled to a job. Seems fair to me (not speaking to the position/salary of his new job, just for the principle of the thing).
Plus, it's the law.
I agree with BB. As much as
I agree with BB. As much as I don't like the two factions that seem to exist between the sherrif and the mayor, I do have to agree that someone who has served the county for 30 years deserves a pension of some sort.
KTB
The chasm between "Haslam
The chasm between "Haslam doesn't accept his salary as mayor" to "Only millionaires can now run for mayor" is wider than anything Kierkegaard would have attempted to leap.
Oh, let's do Kierkegaard...
The chasm between "Haslam doesn't accept his salary as mayor" to "Only millionaires can now run for mayor" is wider than anything Kierkegaard would have attempted to leap.
Mr. Mean, let's say for fun that down the way a Mayoral candidate says, "I will do the job for $95,000." His opponent counters with, "I will be your Mayor for $75,000."
Why not just have a bidding war to see who becomes Mayor?
The taxpayers will save money and only people who really, really want to be Mayor will apply.
Ironically the people who are defending Mayor Haslam are also some of the ones who support the "working wage". Not very consistent.
We already have a bidding
We already have a bidding war in elections. It's called campaign spending. The race doesn't always go to the one who spends the most, but...
That you would obsess on the twig until it becomes the trees obstructing your vision is unsurprising.
That you would crow about it as if for the first time you were seeing a forest is amusing.
Nardelli is a jerk.
Nardelli is a jerk. I worked for Home Depot for 4 years. My second year there Nardelli was hired and one of the first things that happened was the starting pay dropped 2$/hr.
After that he started getting rid of the older employees who were making 15$+/hr. You know the employees who actually were educated about the products and had the knowledge to train the customers in areas like paint/plumbing/lawn mowers.
He did nothing for Home Depot except steal money in the form of his rediculous salary and make them a second rate store compared to Lowe's.
KTB
"In any event, everyone
"In any event, everyone knows the real reason you run for county office: to hire your relatives."
LOL. Randy, quote of the day??
KTB
salary, supporters
I agree with 9 that the lack of salary might impress some people, people not tuned in have shallow reasons sometimes. Like people voting for Bush because he talks like them, or whatever. I also found it interesting that 2 Fulton coaches Bob and Robbie Black are on the host list. They live in the county and have never been in political circles that I've known of, but they have got tons of sympathetic press recently because of a tragic family death and their state championship, so I guess it can't hurt Haslam to have them on his team. Stacey