Wed
Feb 21 2007
05:38 pm
I've never called you out...until now...the Knox County Commission meeting on YouTube
By: Number9

YouTube Channel Nine is up. The major fireworks are in Part V. Lumpy Lambert takes it to Knox County Mayor Mike Ragsdale and Mayor Ragsdale brings it back. People will remember the "4 year old in Candy Land" and "I've never called you out...until now" remarks for many years to come.

This is coverage of the Knox County Commission meeting held on Tuesday to consider Mayor Ragsdale's request for a special election. The primary players are former Tennessee State Senator Bud Gilbert, Knox County Mayor Mike Ragsdale, and the members of the Knox County Commission.

Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV, Part V, Part VI, Part VII

Topics:
Rachel's picture

Umm, you've made exactly the

Submitted by Rachel on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 5:53pm.

Umm, you've made exactly the same post on SayUncle. Is RNeal ok with that?

Number9's picture

Let's discuss it...

Submitted by Number9 on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 5:55pm.

Umm, you've made exactly the same post on SayUncle. Is RNeal ok with that?

I would think that a public service meant to allow people to see their government in action would be welcome by all people.

Rachel's picture

Maybe, but just about

Submitted by Rachel on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:01pm.

Maybe, but just about everything you post here is a duplicate of a post at SayUncle. I thought there was something about copyright in the site rules??

Number9's picture

Further discussion

Submitted by Number9 on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:04pm.

Maybe, but just about everything you post here is a duplicate of a post at SayUncle. I thought there was something about copyright in the site rules??

Which group of people do you recommend I should short change? It is a public service.

Rachel's picture

I'm not trying to pick on

Submitted by Rachel on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:08pm.

I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm jest askin...

R. Neal's picture

I don't have any problem

Submitted by R. Neal on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:34pm.

I don't have any problem with the cross posting. Annoying sometimes, but no big deal.

On the YouTube stuff, I have asked #9 to not post entire copyrighted shows from local broadcast news stations without permission, but I'm not sure if local cable access is copyrighted or public domain. The meetings themselves certainly aren't copyrighted.

But that's a good question. Does anybody know? I hope it's OK, because it is a public service, and takes a lot of effort. Plus, we don't get Knoxville local cable access over here in Blount World.

That said, I'd rather see a transcript of the best parts.

P.S. If this is a "government access" channel, I'm pretty sure it's publicly funded and therefore public domain. Can any experts confirm?

R. Neal's picture

From: "CTV" To: "'R. Neal'"

Submitted by R. Neal on Mon, 2007/02/26 - 1:05pm.

From: "CTV"
To: "'R. Neal'"
Subject: RE: Copyrights
Date: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:41 AM

They are NOT public domain. You would need permission to retransmit.

-----Original Message-----
From: R. Neal [mailto:rneal@rviews.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:50 PM
To: ctv@communityknox.org
Subject: Copyrights

What is the copyright policy for materials broadcast on the Tovernment Access channels on local cable TV? Can these broadcasts, such as a County Commission meeting, be reproduced on YouTube without permission, i.e. are they public domain?

Thanks,
R. Neal

Number9's picture

Email sent to CTV

Submitted by Number9 on Mon, 2007/02/26 - 1:38pm.

I have just sent the following email to CTV.

Per your response to R. Neal of KnoxViews I am requesting permission to post YouTube video of Knox County Commission meetings.

Your permission to do so will be appreciated by not only myself but the 2400 people who have watch Knox County Commission meetings on YouTube.

Number9

Rachel's picture

Email to CTV

Submitted by Rachel on Mon, 2007/02/26 - 2:03pm.

You sent an email to CTV signing yourself Number9?? That should get ya a postive response.

Number9's picture

Not sure if I understand your point...

Submitted by Number9 on Mon, 2007/02/26 - 2:31pm.

You sent an email to CTV signing yourself Number9?? That should get ya a positive response.

I don't know why you would say that. As of today almost 3000 people have seen these meetings. I hadn't checked the total since Saturday so that is 600 new people since Saturday. This is a very popular and appreciated public service. I have had many emails thanking me for taking the time to do this.

The Knox County Schools already puts their meetings on a YouTube like service so people can see their government in action. It is surprising that neither the Knox County Commission or the Knoxville City Council choose to do so.

In fact, isn't it rather outrageous that the people cannot see these meetings on the Internet? If I can do this then why can't local government? Why doesn't CTV or Knox County government provide this public service?

Like many people I think it is wrong that County Commission meets at 2:00 PM. How can people participate in their government when the meetings are held in the middle of the day?

Knox County Commissioners, why are you not providing this service? I would like to hear from you. This is an important need. What do you have to say?

Rachel's picture

I say that because CTV is

Submitted by Rachel on Mon, 2007/02/26 - 2:46pm.

I say that because CTV is unlikely to respond to a request from an anonymous person. Duh.

Number9's picture

Public Domain

Submitted by Number9 on Mon, 2007/02/26 - 2:58pm.

I say that because CTV is unlikely to respond to a request from an anonymous person. Duh.

From the email posted by R. Neal it appears that CTV responded anonymously.

We the citizen taxpayers pay for both Knox County Commission and CTV. I am shocked and upset that they would declare the Knox County Commission meetings on CTV are NOT public domain.

I will upload todays Knox County Commission meeting on YouTube as I always do. I will not however list it on KnoxViews. R. Neal was right to ask the question and I respect the user agreement and his wishes.

If you wish to see todays Knox County Commission meeting on YouTube Channel 9 you will have to figure out how to get there on your own. Expect it late tonight. If CTV says I must remove all Knox County Commission meetings I will appeal this to Knox County Commission and I will do so pseudonymously as Number9.

If you were ever curious about the name Number9 it comes from this.

FtnCity HAPPY's picture

Thanks, Thanks, Thanks....

Submitted by FtnCity HAPPY on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:00pm.

You have no idea how much I appreciate you posting these, I have asked the city/county and Community TV numerous times to either stream or at lease post these. See I travel a lot for work and at time miss the meetings and it is most frustrating. I know it takes a lot of time but your work is appreciated. I am a subscriber of yours on youtube…. THANKS!!!!!

Number9's picture

You are very welcome.

Submitted by Number9 on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:06pm.

I am a subscriber of yours on youtube…. THANKS!!!!!

My time is a small price to help people see their government.

Scott Emge's picture

Thanks Nine!

Submitted by Scott Emge on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:28pm.

Thanks Nine!

knoxnative's picture

Yes, much appreciated

Submitted by knoxnative on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:31pm.

Nine, there are many people who REALLY APPRECIATE the time and effort it takes to do these videos. THANK YOU!

KTB's picture

I personally think that any

Submitted by KTB on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 6:45pm.

I personally think that any commissioner that can't speak into the microphones provided should not be considered for re-election. It almost seems like these folks don't want to be on the record as voting aye/no for a given issue.

Any thoughts/comments on this?

KTB

Tamara Shepherd's picture

I've noticed that too, KTB

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 10:00pm.

...and I agree that they should speak audibly. Guess that's one more reason it would be nice to see the N-S detail how each commissioner voted, on contentious issues, anyway.

R. Neal's picture

They have the vote on the

Submitted by R. Neal on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 10:04pm.

They have the vote on the ethics commission (I think) at their website in the sidebar with the story.

Pamela Treacy's picture

Someone needs to publish the

Submitted by Pamela Treacy on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 10:10pm.

Someone needs to publish the voting records of the commissioners. i have yet to see the official votes of the january 31st meeting.

jbr's picture

Someone needs to publish...

Submitted by jbr on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 10:24pm.

Amen. If you could refer back to it during year and/or see a recap in NS? just before election time would be very useful.

Pickens's picture

they did

Submitted by Pickens on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 10:26pm.

PT on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 9:10pm. Someone needs to publish the voting records of the commissioners. i have yet to see the official votes of the january 31st meeting.

The Sentinel published them the day after on every single person appointed and those who didn't get appointed.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

No Jan 31 mtg minutes

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 10:30pm.

Now, I've read in the N-S or seen on WBIR one that there were no meeting minutes recorded for the January 31 appointment meeting. I've saved all those newspapers, but before I go through them, can anyone else confirm reading/hearing this?

Number9's picture

Put on your hearing aids

Submitted by Number9 on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 10:36pm.

Now, I've read in the N-S or seen on WBIR one that there were no meeting minutes recorded for the January 31 appointment meeting. I've saved all those newspapers, but before I go through them, can anyone else confirm reading/hearing this?

There was YouTube Channel Nine coverage here of the final vote on January 31st. The YouTube Channel Nine library of public meetings can be found here.

If Commissioners Harmon or Lambert is reading this, please ask both the Commissioners and the person who records the votes to clearly state the name and whether the vote was a Yes or a No.

I am sure the voters would appreciate this.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

And I should've said thanks earlier, Nine, but...

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Wed, 2007/02/21 - 10:46pm.

...most local governments make some kind of independent effort to record their meetings *for themselves*, too!

Really, did I dream that the Commission took no minutes on January 31? Anybody?

(and what's with the hearing aid crack, huh?!)

Rachel's picture

If you call Commission

Submitted by Rachel on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 12:10am.

If you call Commission office, they will give you the vote on a particular item. But that's a pain. I agree that folks should speak up. I have difficulty hearing some City Council members on tee vee as well.

Number9's picture

Just an observation

Submitted by Number9 on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 11:44am.

(and what's with the hearing aid crack, huh?!)

I was making a point that the Commissioners cannot be heard when they vote and that the person doing the role call does not call their name and how they voted. Is this some type of tradition?

I do not understand why the News Sentinel does not report how Commissioners voted on crucial votes.

Pamela Treacy's picture

Question for Pickens

Submitted by Pamela Treacy on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 10:11pm.

Did they publish each commissioner's vote for each appointment? If they did, boy did i missed it. I recall the totals for each appointment but not, for example, how Jordan voted on each appointment. I am going to try to find it in the archive. Thanks for the heads up.

Simply Ridiculous's picture

Agenda

Submitted by Simply Ridiculous on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 11:34am.

Tamara - I remember hearing/reading this also. After I read/heard, I checked the commission website since the agendas are usually posted there, but there was never an agenda posted for the 1/31 meeting. Currently the agenda for 2/20 is on the site. Also, there have been no minutes added to the website for any 2007 meetings.

Number9's picture

Poor service listing the Commission agenda...

Submitted by Number9 on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 11:47am.

After I read/heard, I checked the commission website since the agendas are usually posted there, but there was never an agenda posted for the 1/31 meeting. Currently the agenda for 2/20 is on the site.

Knox County Commission is very negligent in posting the County Commission agenda on their website. I do not know if this is by design or neglect but it is very poor service and should be looked into.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Public meeting minutes, other public records...

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 11:48am.

This failure to share public records of public meetings isn't confined to CC, either. The last time I was on the Knox County Schools site (within the last month), that site contained no minutes for either the school board's work sessions or their regular meetings beyond September, 2006.

This is particularly problematic WRT citizens trying to stay apprised of work session goings on, as the school board's work sessions aren't televised, either.

I'll go ahead and throw in one last related beef here: That other locales I've visited, inside and outside of TN, also run two-page spreads in their local newspapers to share county and/or school system budgets, capital plans, and the like. Here in KC, it seems we have to specifically "go after" public reporting of this type (I have frequently driven downtown, paid to park, and walked to the appropriate office, for example).

I also think that if public information were less difficult to retrieve, KC could foster greater public participation in decision-making and minimize infighting among factions within the citizenry.

Why don't they get a clue?!

Simply Ridiculous's picture

You make an excellent point

Submitted by Simply Ridiculous on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 12:04pm.

...I agree that it very well might stir public interest if this information was in front of people for their own reading pleasure. Most people are so busy they don't want to drive downtown, pay/park, wait for copies, etc. - and that is understandable I guess. Making the information available to the public through the media could only increase public awareness and input.

D Mac's picture

Try calling or emailing the

Submitted by D Mac on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 12:29pm.

Try calling or emailing the CC office and request the info. See how responsive they are or if they have excuses for not providing it.

commission@knoxcounty.org

215-2534

kcarson's picture

Public meeting minutes

Submitted by kcarson on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 1:15pm.

Tamara, I just checked the KCS website and all minutes from workshops and meetings are posted throughout the Jan. 2007 meetings. Also, I don't know if people are aware that the KCS website also carries video archives of all workshops and meetings. Hope this is helpful. If there are other ideas on how to improve communication, please feel free to offer suggestions/ideas.
KC

Number9's picture

One request...

Submitted by Number9 on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 1:32pm.

If there are other ideas on how to improve communication, please feel free to offer suggestions/ideas.

Could you broadcast your meetings on Knox Community Television?

kcarson's picture

Number 9, School Board

Submitted by kcarson on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 2:05pm.

Number 9,
School Board Meetings and Work Sessions are broadcast live on Channel 10 on Comcast Cable and later re-broadcast on a regular schedule.(see web site for schedule) Live video streaming (during broadcast times) of meetings is also available over the Internet. I hate to be ignorant, but I don't watch much TV and don't have cable--is Channel 10 the same as the Knox Community TV that you refer to?
K

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Wow! Thanks, Karen.

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 2:19pm.

I've caught school board meetings on-air for years, but televised work sessions are news to me, as is the video streaming! Now, about those budgets and capital plans I want in my N-S...

(If you're still around, your tact and diplomacy are needed right this minute on the Farragut HS rezoning thread.)

Number9's picture

Karen,

Submitted by Number9 on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 3:36pm.

but I don't watch much TV and don't have cable--is Channel 10 the same as the Knox Community TV that you refer to?

I don't have Comcast so I am not familiar with Comcast Channel 10.

Knox Community Television is on Comcast Channel 12 and Charter Cable Channel 6. It is not yet on Knology but will be soon.

Commissioner Mike Hammond is the Chairman of the Cable TV committee and Commissioner Mark Harmon is the Vice Chair.

It would be helpful to have the School Board Meetings and Work Sessions available to all people on all cable television networks.

Anything you can do would be appreciated.

D Mac's picture

Here you go

Submitted by D Mac on Thu, 2007/02/22 - 5:53pm.

Comcast channel 12 is the community channel (which airs the CC meetings), channel 10 (which airs the School Board meetings) is the education channel.

Pickens's picture

answer:

Submitted by Pickens on Sun, 2007/02/25 - 10:09pm.

paper on 2/1, page A-7

Jordan didn't get sworn in early, so he didn't vote on appointments.

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